BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale

[wasp_f15ting]

If any of you work for the NHS 50% at ABC and 25% off at CloudWater


This reminds me of one of my fave beers Paulaner - so refreshing..


This is nice and fruity, and the only beer the wife is enjoying

[phes]

That's Alphabet Brewing. Thanks for the NHS heads up though! A gose and a Brett sour in stock. Marvellous!

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

https://www.alphabetbrewing.co.uk/specials

Just posting this so bgmnts can work himself into a stupor.

[phes]

Good Lord.

Coldest brewery tour I've ever been on. Railway arches, MCR, deep winter. Outdoor bar. Pints of Flat White all round before anyone could stop chattering to speak. Fresh days those, when hundreds of breweries were springing up and 'tap rooms' were very, very DIY and still just outlets for the brewery to advertise their wares and ply enthusiastic visitors with cost price booze

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

I didn't experience any local startups being that generous cost wise, but there are few bargains of any sort around Leeds.

Partner and I did another sour blending session last night

Sours:
Timmermans Oude Gueuze
Boon Geuze
Bacchus Kriek

Mixers:
Warminski Baltic Porter
Rodenbach classic
Manns Brown Ale

The porter and kriek worked fantastically, as you might expect.

Making the Bacchus more sour with a bit of Gueuze brought an extra tart complexity to it.

Adding Gueuze to Rodenbach classic turned it into the Grand Cru, perhaps with less oakiness but still very good.

The broon ale was for a laugh. Christ that stuff is sweet and mild on its own (2.8%, and I hear it is popular for use in home cooking), but mixed with Gueuze you get a not dissimilar flavour to Oud Bruin, just with an English earthiness. It does kind of work.

Finally the weirdest. Baltic Porter and Gueuze. Strong heavily dark and sour... Worked better than the Doppelbock sour we blended a month ago.

[sardines]

Thanks, interesting read. Where are you based, approximately? I have had a couple of Witkap Stimulo and I think their range is fairly good. That one took another go to really get the point of it.

Sorry lost track of this
Between Brussels and Antwerp. A stones throw from Het Anker/Carolus brewery.
Speaking of which currently drinking a Carolus Tripel which, and I say this with a lot of bias due to proximity, is a classic of the genre.

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

Sorry lost track of this
Between Brussels and Antwerp. A stones throw from Het Anker/Carolus brewery.
Speaking of which currently drinking a Carolus Tripel which, and I say this with a lot of bias due to proximity, is a classic of the genre.

Ah, Mechelen! I was there during the Indian summer last October. Beautiful place. Honestly, some of the centre is outstanding and I noticed you can get around without pushing past tourists and getting planted onto the cobbles by idiot tour groups and cyclists. Really cheap on a weekend train ticket from Brussels also.

I enjoyed Hannekeef Cafe (which is featured in Regula Ysewijn's 'Belgian Cafe Culture') and the neighbourhood volkscafe .com/2019/10/28/tilt-mechelen/]Tilt where Rozeke Raymaekers looks after the bar in her late 80s, though I now wish I'd ordered the standard lager rather than a bottle of Hapkin.

Sadly as I was only there for a morning wander and lunch, I didn't have time to visit the Het Anker brewery, which I regret, but time was tight and was more interested in the bar scene (which isn't amazing in Mechelen, so it seems).

Carolus was one of the first I tried of the style, probably back in 2013ish. There was a long day on the beers and it didn't sit well at the end of the night. I have returned since then and agree it is a very nice beer.

[Blinder Data]

https://www.alphabetbrewing.co.uk/specials

Just posting this so bgmnts can work himself into a stupor.

Just looking at their website - why do independent/smaller breweries release so many beers?

This is why I tend to be quite conservative and stick to breweries who have settled on a handful of beer styles that they do well. The Trappists lads who have barely made any changes in decades have got it right - I can remember their beers and which ones I like.

I suppose breweries need to change it up for marketing purposes but can't some of these trendy one-off collab wankers just calm it down a bit...?

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

Good reasons are:

The brewers are (potentially) experimental artists bestowing their innovative fine works on the world and (potentially) learning their trade as they go along. In 20 years or so we might find some of these people are behind long term successes.

The bad are:

- A small batch creates exclusivety which alone drives demand. Distributors, Bars, bottleshops and their customers will try stuff on the off chance its really good and to avoid missing out. This inevitably means all end up paying a premium that isn't perhaps deserved. It also allows a brewer to avoid being 'found out' as moribund or superfluous for longer. Shifting terrain and refusal to brew a straight up style leaves the taster with less to compare the beer with. Collabs also dramatically increase brand recognition and likelihood of a buy.

- Hyperinformation and novelty is the in thing. A beer can't be a stout. It must be a maple pecan pie stout. Beer drinkers who prefer beers that remind them of other things and want to know the ins and outs of why, rather than just being able to open a bottle and savour the flavour. Belgian brews, real ale, Keller bier and similar beer culture which is about product and brand name more than an anatomical dissection of the contents of the beer scares scenesters and some beer monster types, for some reason. At a guess, they project a confidence, versus the insecure arrogance of many craft brewers which can be gleaned from inspecting their cans, bottles and miscellaneous marketing. I think some people look at, say, Barnsley Bitter, and think it's some troglodyte brew for simpletons rather than a wonderful rich, complex highly drinkable beer that's been around for donkeys because multiple generations of people think it tastes nice. I bet you any money you could con a few people into liking beers they think they hate by rebadging them.

[phes]

Alphabet do have a core range. It has changed since I first encountered them but it does contain beers from about 2-7 years old, so they're by no means the least consistent. Kernel are one of my favourites and it's next to impossible to buy anything twice apart from a couple of core beers, though a lot of their beers seem to be more subtle tweaks than audacious, headline grabbing brews

[king_tubby]

I'm trying to put in a Roosters order and their website is soooooo slow, could you all just keep off it for a bit? Thanks.

[holyzombiejesus]

Is 'real ale' an actual thing? I thought it was just a catch-all like craft beer. I also thought pale ale was generally the same as IPA. I'm wrong, aren't I?

[Abnormal Palm]

Feel like pure shit just wanna go to GOBLINS BAR

[Viero_Berlotti]

Morrison's have started stocking Kwak.

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

Yep, they have indeed.

BTW, I wasn't aiming that tirade at Alphabet specifically and I think Kernel are an example that do have a distinct core range, regardless of whether it's my thing or not.

Is 'real ale' an actual thing? I thought it was just a catch-all like craft beer. I also thought pale ale was generally the same as IPA. I'm wrong, aren't

Real ale generally refers to handpulled cask ale, if you take the CAMRA mission statement, so there is a sizeable overlap with the output of new brewers, but with real ale being a fairly worn out notion which includes unfashionable styles around best bitter, it does have fuddy connotations versus its more fashionable sounding and arguably much more meaningless 'craft beer', which is would, in a highly generalised way, say refers to keg ale of various kinds.

The overlap certainly includes IPA and pale ales. It is just more general that an old fashioned British cask pale ale from an established family brewery will be called real ale and one brewed with US hops, unfined and 6%+ on keg would be called a craft beer.

http://allaboutbeer.com/article/mythbusting-the-ipa/ Here is a 'I wish I hadn't asked' level of deconstruction covering the origins of pale ale and the term IPA.

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

Gonna be out of beer by tonight save for a Cantillon Gueuze from last October which I ain't touching.

The Franconia Kellerbiers aren't on their way just yet, curses, so back to the auld shops tomorrow. Might actually get a Kwak, even though it is not my favourite.

[Abnormal Palm]

I'm waiting on my Tynt Meadow and pals and just caning the beaming red buttocks off the Duvel and Leffe stocks in my Sainsbury's Local. Just got some Innis and Gunn red ale finished in a rum cask. Proper cunt tier but I remember having some pleasant I&G even if it's a bit gimmicky tasting.

Just want to get some Trappist shit again though man, totally cunts everything else for me.

[phes]

Yep, they have indeed.

BTW, I wasn't aiming that tirade at Alphabet specifically and I think Kernel are an example that do have a distinct core range, regardless of whether it's my thing or not.

Yup, wasn't taken as such. Was just to balance it being pointed out that they have a long list of one-offs. Probably not such a long list either, given they must have been around for best part of a decade. 

Real ale generally refers to handpulled cask ale, if you take the CAMRA mission statement, so there is a sizeable overlap with the output of new brewers, but with real ale being a fairly worn out notion which includes unfashionable styles around best bitter, it does have fuddy connotations versus its more fashionable sounding and arguably much more meaningless 'craft beer', which is would, in a highly generalised way, say refers to keg ale of various kinds.

Just to add that CAMRA now (as of the last time I checked in on them a couple of years back) includes cask conditioned, bottle conditioned and key-keg as 'Real Ale'. Worth pointing out for anyone unaware of this that Real Ale is a slogan invented by CAMRA. It means whatever they want it to mean and they've already changed their minds a few times.

CAMRA really have fucked it (though i'm a couple of years out of touch with this opinion). Last time I was following the whole Craft/Real Ale thing the crux of what was happening was that CAMRA were flourishing in terms of membership. Can't be bad news, right. Speculating about why this was, despite the bitter dispute between heads in craft and real ale, I am almost certain that CAMRA benefitted from the craft-market driven threefold explosion in breweries 2010-2018 and the shift in style of establishments. A net decline in pubs/bars continued, but for every two traditional locals that closed, a micropub that stocks 4-6 well-kept real ales alongside the craft beer had sprung up. And these were places frequented by people getting into beers. I suspect those craft drinkers who were willing to pay more for their beer inadvertantly gave Real Ale a shot in the arm, via CAMRA. Unfortunately, CAMRA at its heart is so old fashioned and riddled with inertia that despite that shot in the arm and their footsoldiers dragging them kicking and screaming into 21st century, they have failed to recognise the single biggest gain to both them and to craft beer, which was to make a strong allegiance. 'Real Ale' is dying on its arse, despite being dragged up by the bootstraps. They are failing in their original mission and they are not capitalising on the big opportunities to modernise.

[Abnormal Palm]

Back on my bullshit



Quite a few here I've not tried. Looking forward to trying the Tynt Meadow recommended by Shouldsy boy. Barnardo is probably my favourite brewer based on the different stuff I've had so far but never tried the Pater nor Prior, so looking forward to them. Leffe Brune got a warm write up again by Shouldsy boy they other week so give that a go. Also got a couple of Rochefort 8 just to compare with the 10. Interested in the St Feuillen Saison because I reckon I might like saison based on a few I've head. Might be a shit example but looking forward to giving it a go.

Chimay Blue is pure ultimate ol' timey Wuhan nostalgia Café Brussels tier payday foot massage hardwank theorem. Cannot wait.

I've really enjoyed this thread and genuinely learning a lot and lovin it. Beer literally never be the same again for me. I mean it.

LGC

(let's get cunted)

[Chollis]

Tripel Fuckdown arrived



LGC

[Abnormal Palm]

Allez, beast.

Allez, Bungle.

FUCKDOWN, Belge.

LGC

(Hey, we got the same St Feuillen Saison! Karmeliet Tripel is another former life fave, too. Enjoy!)

[Ferris]

Tripel Fuckdown arrived



LGC

fucking hell

#lgc
#rrr

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

That looks awesome. I would neck that Tripel Kannunik.

Interested to read which ones r ur fayvz

[Cuellar]

Yeah ditto, always on the lookout for a good tripel.

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

CAMRA really have fucked it (though i'm a couple of years out of touch with this opinion). Last time I was following the whole Craft/Real Ale thing the crux of what was happening was that CAMRA were flourishing in terms of membership. Can't be bad news, right. Speculating about why this was, despite the bitter dispute between heads in craft and real ale, I am almost certain that CAMRA benefitted from the craft-market driven threefold explosion in breweries 2010-2018 and the shift in style of establishments. A net decline in pubs/bars continued, but for every two traditional locals that closed, a micropub that stocks 4-6 well-kept real ales alongside the craft beer had sprung up. And these were places frequented by people getting into beers. I suspect those craft drinkers who were willing to pay more for their beer inadvertantly gave Real Ale a shot in the arm, via CAMRA. Unfortunately, CAMRA at its heart is so old fashioned and riddled with inertia that despite that shot in the arm and their footsoldiers dragging them kicking and screaming into 21st century, they have failed to recognise the single biggest gain to both them and to craft beer, which was to make a strong allegiance. 'Real Ale' is dying on its arse, despite being dragged up by the bootstraps. They are failing in their original mission and they are not capitalising on the big opportunities to modernise.

Just to state I agree with you regarding CAMRA's failure to react positively to craft beer. Whether their upper echelons or even their lay members despite craft beer's marketing, or keg ale, or whatever, there isn't any doubt that small brewers in England should be allies with CAMRA not enemies.

I don't personally see 'real ale' (if what's meant by that is cask ale of more traditional styles) dying out but then I am usually around Sheffield/Leeds/York/Hull with a strong tradition, with the occasional trips to Newcastle and London where it isn't difficult to find quality beer. It's thriving if anything. I probably am a little more worried longer term about the survival of cask given it relies on a high turnover and now has to compete with lager AND lots of keg ale, but it was resurrected before and its time may come again.

[phes]

What we see appears to be thriving because so many newer places have embraced real ale and craft beer. But the stats were bad for real ale (up until 2018 ish), a persistent decline. So I would assume that it is the larger, independent brewers of real ale that stock the family and sports pubs that have seen demand drop. Real Ale fans have been pretty loyal haven't they so my guess it that brewers and CAMRA have dropped the ball with the new generation of drinkers, who have been siphoned off by macros and by successful craft independents like Brewdog and buyouts like Camden and  Beavertown, both of which are astonishingly popular with lads and ladettes. All total speculation from me and based only on stats I read a couple of years ago

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

The whole debate on excluding keg ale from CAMRA's ongoing missions had a really awkward parallel with Labour Party circa 2016.

An influx of excited, activated members and the reaction of the long term fixtures in the hierarchy of "Oh. These people are here. No, no thanks. Oh, well actually OK - we will take your money, don't worry about trying to change anything though".

[phes]

And here's their labour moment. Months later I joined the Leeds Uni 'Real Ale' society. At that time there was a fair mix of real ale enthusiasts and people excited by rumblings of change as the first beers aping American IPA's gained traction. This I guess was exactly when CAMRA needed to recognise the value in cementing allegiances with those gaining momentum. Instead at best they saw it as something that would water down their message and at worst getting into bed with the enemy.

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2010/sep/12/real-ale-beer-sales-rise

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

Iain Loe, a spokesman for Camra, said drinkers were returning to real ale because of its moderate strength – often under 4% – compared with stronger lagers that are usually above 5%. "Real ale is a naturally refreshing drink; people are realising it is healthier than other types of alcohol," Loe said.

Haha. How myopic, even for 2010.

No, I'm not even going to get into how wrong that all is.

[phes]

And that was bludgeoned home by Thornbridge winning numerous awards for Jaipur in keg and cask in the next year or two. I don't have a frame of reference for the presence of breweries like Thornbridge, Brewdog and Meantime pre-2011 so it's hard to know just how blind CAMRA were at the time to brewers who had found a new niche and one that was prepared to pay a quid over what CAMRA members would accept at the pump.

I'm not sure exactly how CAMRA discounts work. When I was a member it seemed to me to be something of an own goal. When I drunk in the peaks the old guys would come in and ask for their CAMRA discount, without fail. Presumably it's a gimmick intended to attract new members, but if you're already a member and you're already converted then maybe just pay the paltry price of a real ale pint. Something else they got wrong in that interview, thinking that the next generation of niche drinkers would be interested in penny-pinching . Can't afford a fucking house thanks guys so I'll sure as hell not scrimp on something I can enjoy