BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale

[Blue Jam]

Outside of the Northern regions and Alsace/Lorraine it has more in common with Italy, Spain, Greece. Wine is dominant culturally

Grape belt, hop belt, grain belt innit? That's why you get wine in Spain and Portugal and France, beer in Germany, Belgium and the UK, and vodka in Poland and Russia. It's all about the climate, what you can grow, and the culture based around what you can ferment from it. That's booze sociology for you.

I guess the UK is also a microcosm of the belts, with English wine produced in the south, beer throughout most of the country, and whisky in the Scottish Highlands.

Also spirits are probably more popular up north because the colder it gets the more pissed you need to get to keep warm and not go mad.

[king_tubby]

Popped down to Beer Ritz. They are down on stock but looks like some German beers had just arrived.

Forgot how expensive it is in there now. Some downright piss takers as well, £4.70 for a Delerium. Some mind-boggling - £4.15 and £2.70 for Westmalle Tripel and Budvar. On sale for £2.50 and £1.54 respectively at Morrisons.

All the same, I picked up 2 Saison Duponts, 2 Bruges Zot and 2 Tynt Meadow

Yes, I think places like this are going to have to seriously look at their business models. The can of Arbor I had the other night was 4 quid, and very nice it was too, but when Kirkstall Brewery will deliver 36 cans to my door for 50 pounds, trips to Beer Ritz or Village Liquor are going to be novelties rather than regular.

I'm guessing it'll be the same with you as you're now ordering directly from Belgian and Czech suppliers.

[Blue Jam]

How does Tynt Meadow compare with the Belgian Trappist brews? One of the pubs round here sells it but I don't think they're offering that one with their take-out service.

[Abnormal Palm]

Was a bit of chat about the Tynt Meadow the other week. Mixed reviews I'd say but it's well worth a try. It's very clovey and liquoricey and medicinal, but I'm tempted to get a few more to see how I like it now. It's definitely its own thing rather than a shit tier Chimay which is what I'd expected. It depends on your tolerance for herbal Christmassy spicing, I reckon.

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

Blue Jam - I think it's very nice. A deliberate attempt to brew a Belgian strong dark ale but with some English strong ale character. The maltiness is certainly different from Belgian beer but it still has the rich smoothness. Worth trying as it's not really like anything else you could easily find.

It's difficult to honestly compare but it holds its own among the Trappist range.

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

Feels dirty running down a legendary brewery and one that did so much to open my eyes to the beer world but the Weihenstephaner Hefeweissbier I had earlier and - to be fair - enjoyed, was not a patch on the flavour found in this Reckendorfer Kellerbier. Yes, it isn't comparing apples with applies but even so, I genuinely don't think I'll look at a lot of my former favourites in the same way since this Franconia exploration. Just the standard of them.

[hummingofevil]

French beer.

Are there any really good French beers I'm missing out on? Most French beer I've had is either at best bang average or at worst undrinkable.

It's mad really considering they neighbour the joint world masters of good beer, Belgium and Germany.

Why is French beer so poor/average? And why do they seem to think adding orange flavouring to beer is a great thing to do?

I spent the summer in France three years ago maybe and visited Nantes in February. Nantes was very beer friendly and there were at least half a dozen bars where you could get really good stuff. Le Sur Mesure was probably the best and from memory yes it is mainly a mix of craft and Beligians (I remember drinking Kasteel Rouge on draft if that is a starting point).

As for breweries my experience 3 years ago was that the craft scene was still much more localised and tended to focus on producing the classic/basic craft beers without any fuss. An IPA, a porter, an imperial stout, a pale ale etc.

Lyon has Ninkasi which seems to be very aggresive in it's branding as young and trendy and they had plenty of their own bars. La Canute had a range named after different parts of the city. Can't remember much more but Toulouse and Montpellier definitely had a few microbreweries that you could visit and drink on site. My memories of all of it was everything was very nice (nothing remarkable enough to recommend 3 years later) and the french are beer mad. The very worst you will find is some grotty, friendly bar selling loads of perfectly great belgians. In fact, the Irish pubs in Nantes all had decent enough fridges now I think of it.

Also it is expensive. I am sure 6 euros for a half was perfectly normal and I went from France to Berlin to see friends and the 2 euro bottles of Augustineer Helles was a welcome relief to my wallet.

So yeah. France. Beer. In the bigger cities it is definitely a huge deal.

Oh and whilst my French has come on loads recently don't do what I did and ask for an "EE PAY AH". You will get rightly laughed out of the place*. They say "EYE PEE AYE" like what we do. And you can order a pint but it is "pant" and not "peent" but only do that in Irish pubs or places that sell stuff in pints (and if you have 12 euros to spend). God, I can't wait to go back. Love it.

*And then warmly welcomed back in to spend money and be comforted by friendly locals and staff that to make an effort with the language is appreciated. I steered clear of ordering pale ales after that though as couldn't bring myself to say it in a bit of a french accent. :)

[Blue Jam]

BeerHawk order arrived, contents aren't quite the same as listed- do they often do this when some beers are out of stock?

I'm not complaining though, they've replaced some beers I've had before with some interesting-looking ones I've never tried. Saltaire Triple Choc sounds like it'll be a treat and I've got Magic Rock's Dark Arts Surreal Stout in both the original and Hazlenut editions.

No Tonkoko though :(

[ImmaculateClump]

I was watching a rerun of the chase the other day and Bradley was like "here, dickhead, trappist red cap, fucks that then?"
and yer man was giving it all "errrr, m-m-m-mushroom?"
and I scoffed with contempt, "nice try, old timer. It's one of them smelly beers"
and I got it right! I'd like to thank all you middle aged old soaks for my brief moment in the sun.

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

BeerHawk order arrived, contents aren't quite the same as listed- do they often do this when some beers are out of stock?

I'm not complaining though, they've replaced some beers I've had before with some interesting-looking ones I've never tried. Saltaire Triple Choc sounds like it'll be a treat and I've got Magic Rock's Dark Arts Surreal Stout in both the original and Hazlenut editions.

No Tonkoko though :(

Some set packages have an asterisk indicating they may vary depending on stock. I wonder if it is part of their business model to tempt people in with a few headline beers then subtract them for ones with a better margin. Maybe too conspiratorial.

Have had to cancel my order from Czech Beer Gifts/Pivni Darky. Half of my order wasn't in stock or just wasn't available any more and some they stated they were getting in this week hadn't arrived with them in their estimated time. Shambles.

[Jerzy Bondov]

Just polished off my last Cloudwater Pale Ale. Really enjoyed it. I expected to like the lager and the helles more as that's usually my sort of thing but this was just what I needed at the end of a hot day.

[Blinder Data]

You know what? The red cans of Feldschlößchen you get in ASDA are not bad

Been mixing it with a touch of cloudy lemonade on hot days. Lovely stuff.

[Smeraldina Rima]

My sixteen beers from Beerwulf arrived. St Barnardo's Tripel is too similar to Blue Moon for my taste; was nice with a curry though. Preferred the Tripel D'Anvers and the Affligem Dubbel. Also bought some lagers from ASDA including Warsteiner which is alright.

Will most tripels be blonde and dubbels brown?

[phes]

St Barnardo's Tripel is too similar to Blue Moon for my taste;

Waaaaat. This isn't a comparison that had ever sprung to mind and I hold you responsible if you have ruined this delicious beer for me. Blue Moon came up at work last week and I tried to disguise my pleading with them as a suggestion to make the small large sideways diagonal step to investing in a bottle of hoegarrden and not putting a fruit salad in it

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

Will most tripels be blonde and dubbels brown?

Yes. At most a Tripel might be light brown. A Dubbel is a brown beer.

Comparing Bernardus Tripel to Blue Moon is a strange one but if that's your nearest reference there you go.

[Smeraldina Rima]

Waaaaat. This isn't a comparison that had ever sprung to mind and I hold you responsible if you have ruined this delicious beer for me. Blue Moon came up at work last week and I tried to disguise my pleading with them as a suggestion to make the small large sideways diagonal step to investing in a bottle of hoegarrden and not putting a fruit salad in it

Sorry. It's like when someone compared my Schneider Weisse to baked beans, possibly a less ignorant comparison.

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

Beers of Europe has already been raided for the new German stock, I see. Just had a look and all the interesting ones I may have bought have gone.

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

New review

Aufsesser Zwickl (Zwicklbier, 4.8%) - ****



Another unfiltered kellerbier, the colour of caramel - less red than the above picture. There are Munich, Vienna and Plzen malts in here with Spalter hops. That distinct tang you get from unfined lager is really present here, almost Czech style in character but not quite. It really lingers nicely. Beautiful flavor, a hint of 'funk' ie, saison/farmhouse ale notes, which I suppose isn't unusual given its a small-time operation (something reinforced by the faded logo on the cap of the swingtop, which has clearly been heavily recycled).

There you are then. Some biscuity kellerbier flavour upfront, an unusual farmhousey type flavour in the mouth and then a big lingering unfiltered tang at the end.

Take a look at the setting of their operations: https://brauereigasthof-rothenbach.de/
An impossibly quaint little hamlet of Aufsess, replete with Schloss, Residenz, kirche, fachwerk houses and riverside brewery. Deep in the centre of Germany's brewing heartlands, 15 miles east of Bamberg.

The kellerbiers are almost gone now (1 left), and after deliberation this one ended up being my favourite. It was a fair contest as I had 6 bottles of each, so got to know them fairly well. I was trying not to go ott in the reviewing but I would upgrade this to a 4.5 or 4.75/5.

So many flavours are here people enjoy about totally different kind of beers. It has the thick cloudiness of wheat beer, it has the nutty and hoppy satisfaction of English bitter, it has the rounded malt of a Rochefort 6, it has the farmhousey funk you'd expect from a small brewer making unfiltered beer via a trad method and it has the utter refreshment and delivery of lager (it is a lager, after all).

Above all, it's just so fresh. It tastes like you'd imagine it does out of the barrel. This is a cornerstone of beer for me, right here. This is as important for Germany as good bitter is for the UK.

[Abnormal Palm]

It sounds superb. Any suggestions for reasonable UK delivery? Sorry I'm being lazy about scrolling back to find the original mention of your order.

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

I bought it from

https://www.hier-gibts-bier.de/en/beer-from-franconia-bavaria/cellar-beer/

These guys specialise in Franconian beers. There are several brewing heartlands in Germany but none has respected tradition and quality as much as Franconia, northern Bavaria which offers the most variety and generally speaking highest quality. The above is the Kellerbier section but they also do light lagers, pils, dark beer and smoked beer. Shipping is costlier than some, so for example, my order averaged out at £3.25 a bottle, all told. Pricier than the Belgian order but I guess not something a craft beer fan would get too fussed about. You also get 500ml so going £/ml it isn't that much different.

N.B - also be careful to check the shipping costs section as some quantities are significantly poorer value than others

up to 6 kg 15,00 €
up to 12 kg 20,00 €
up to 18 kg 35,00 €
up to 24 kg 40,00 €
up to 30 kg 55,00 €
up to 36 kg 60,00 €
up to 42 kg 75,00 €
up to 48 kg 80,00 €
up to 54 kg 95,00 €
up to 60 kg 100,00 €
up to 66 kg 115,00 €
up to 72 kg 120,00 €
up to 78 kg 135,00 €
up to 84 kg 140,00 €
up to 90 kg 155,00 €
up to 96 kg 160,00 €

A bottle is a kg for these purposes. You can see from there, big jumps at points... why would anyone order 42 when its only 5 euro extra for 48. That's to do with the box size.

None of the 10 I ordered were disappointing. They weren't all what I expected though either. One was slightly smokey, some were quality lagers rather than stereotypical cloudy 'kellerbier'. They were all interesting or highly drinkable in their own ways. Earthy, 'alive', no bullshit or gimmicks either, just traditional untampered methods evidently made with love and care. They aren't anything like what you'll have encountered so far.

In fact was only stepping back yesterday to a staple beer I loved, Weihenstephaner Hefe, that I realised that at least 4 of the 10 were not just better but kicking the living shit out of it.

I can especially recommend Hutten Zoigl, Aufsesser Zwickl, Goller Kellerbier, Flechterla Zwickl.

[Blue Jam]

On this now:



Like a hazlenut ice cream sundae. Fucking exceptional.

[Abnormal Palm]

Love that stuff.

And cheers, Shoulders. That was the site I'd been checking so I guess I'll have to make a significant order and work out the best shipping value. Well up for what you've described.

[TrenterPercenter]

I'm going to shamelessly plug two excellent local breweries in Birmingham that are great (local Brummies will know them well) as they have now started doing national deliveries.

https://digbrewco.com



https://atticbrewco.com



Also though not beer going to plug another local business.  They only deliver in the area so just for any locals but trust me the curries and sundries they make themselves (as they wholesale handle some other stuff) are incredible and go fantastically with a beer : ).  I really didn't think you could get a decent authentic frozen curry but they prove it is possible.

https://spicetime.myshopify.com

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

I like the add on of 'Lager' to Kolsch on the can. I wonder how much extra business they think they get and how much extra business they actually get through advertising that (technically inaccurate*) distinction.

I'm not trying to insinuate anything, I am genuinely curious as to what anyone who hasn't been to Cologne and isn't a beer geek thinks is 'Kolsch' other than perhaps 'some German beer'. A lot of English brewed Kolsch I have tried is way-off (Including hideously one time, a cask Kolsch).


*_{If we're getting fussy, it's an ale that's been lagered, so the can should read "Kolsch Ale" or "Kolsch-style Lagered Ale".}

[TrenterPercenter]

I like the add on of 'Lager' to Kolsch on the can. I wonder how much extra business they think they get and how much extra business they actually get through advertising that (technically inaccurate*) distinction.

I'm not trying to insinuate anything, I am genuinely curious as to what anyone who hasn't been to Cologne and isn't a beer geek thinks is 'Kolsch' other than perhaps 'some German beer'. A lot of English brewed Kolsch I have tried is way-off (Including hideously one time, a cask Kolsch).


*_{If we're getting fussy, it's an ale that's been lagered, so the can should read "Kolsch Ale" or "Kolsch-style Lagered Ale".}

I didn't know the specifics about Cologne, though makes sense now, i just presumed it was a style, like Vienna.  They are quite nice  though the Kolsch ones.

But I would urge you to have a go on the digbrew ones.  Not sure if it is your kindof thing Shoulders but the IPAs and DIPAs imo albeit humble opinion are excellent, creamy and complex without just being an exercise in over hoppiness.  They are a tad expensive.  To get the free shipping (which is £6.50!! even for locals) you need to spend £45 so my order worked out at about £3.30 a bottle for 13 + one free beer they give you (but these are 330ml bottles). However at 6-8% abv you don't need much (well I don't anyway).  Not sure on the lagers they do I think it is the IPAs etc that are the things really worth bothering with.

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

I will keep a lookout, cheers. The price is about the top end of what I'd pay to drink at home, but can't argue as I have just spent that sum per bottle on German beer.

[Sheffield Wednesday]

Picked up a few of these during the warm weather. I don't really like lager but I enjoyed them a lot. I am actually looking forward to the sunshine coming back and getting a case of these in. Actually has a tasty finish rather than the puke tier acrid anus dirt I normally associate with lager.

[Blue Jam]

Went for a long walk today and was delighted to see that the Dogbridge Stockbridge Tap was open and selling some interesting cans. Just had one of these:



Didn't realise it was 11% ABV until I got it home, fucking hell. Not easy drinking thankfully, just sipped on it for an hour with a glass of water on the side. Very nice.

[Ferris]

Has anyone noticed beers changing during the global fuckdown? I've noticed a cloudy IPA I quite like has changed quite markedly - I'd swear it was a different beer. Must be the supply chain changing

[king_tubby]

Yeah, but only from a brewery that is pretty much one guy brewing in a lock up.