Author Topic: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale  (Read 31490 times)

FerriswheelBueller

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Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
« Reply #990 on: November 13, 2020, 08:21:34 PM »
I've just had my first Westvleteren 12.

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Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
« Reply #991 on: November 13, 2020, 09:38:17 PM »
Welcome to Big School.
I bought 3 a few years back but have only had 1 so far. It isn't a million miles away from a Rochefort 10. More complex as you say, deeper, smoother and more varied.

Lovely beer, but worth £10-£20, not sure about that.

Not tried the 8, how does differ?

Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
« Reply #992 on: November 14, 2020, 08:28:53 AM »
I have to say that I wouldn't recommend anyone getting the 12, as good as it is! I'd take three Barnardo 12 or Rochefort 10 for what I paid per bottle, every time. It wasn't like the first time I tried George T. Stagg, though, where I basically sat in silence and felt like my taste buds and brain struggling to process how fucking good it was. Not a fair comparison, perhaps.

The 8 is more like a dubbel in terms of the flavours, but richer, more intense without getting the darker, boozy, quaddy kind of notes. I think I said fig roll at the time and that's my main impression, really. Raisin and biscuit kind of thing. Sweet and rich but spicy, earthy and drying. I will try and get some more, and definitely would recommend the 8 over the 12 for the money.

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Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
« Reply #993 on: November 14, 2020, 04:44:06 PM »
This is why I haven't tried it yet. I'm sure it's terrific but the markup just never seems worth it.

I'm just waiting for the point where I get pliant enough to lob 10 quid into the transaction goatse. Hasn't happened yet.

Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
« Reply #994 on: November 14, 2020, 05:38:49 PM »
I'd say it's worth trying a single bottle but I got half a dozen which would slightly sting if I didn't intend to gift a few. The 8 was actually a freebie because of my 12 order which was a lovely extra.

They chucked in one of these, as well, with my Gouden Carolus Tripels:



I've sat with it for a good hour, not just because of the 11.7% ABV but because I want to see where it is goes. I didn't know that Gouden Carolus even produced a single malt, but sure enough. Overall, lovely stuff for a dark and grey early winter's evening, but a little bit too sweet for me, it's almost like an Irish whiskey infusion but definitely missing some of the floral citric notes of the Tripel. It's pretty rich and layered but all within fairly narrow parameters. Treacle, vanilla, chocolate, burnt toffee. There's not much fruit or bitterness or anything much to balance it. It's like the 'sherry bomb' you sometimes get with Scotch (though it doesn't taste like that), where you get one powerful and intense thump of a particular flavour profile. If you like these notes, it's definitely unique and it's pretty intense, but it's not one I'll be sampling very often. Should have saved it for Christmas Day. It's got that vibe.

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Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
« Reply #995 on: November 14, 2020, 05:58:43 PM »
Wow yes, that's a keeper. Haven't seen that around anywhere (from memory).

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Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
« Reply #996 on: November 14, 2020, 09:13:01 PM »


Staffelberg-Bräu Wienerla (5.4%) Vienna Lager
Staffelberg-Brau, Loffeld

Staffelberg Brau is a typical Franconian Gasthof/Brew House in a small village at the foot of Staffelberg mountain. Using spring water, local barley and powered by renewable energy, this brewery makes a play on its ethical credentials. One from a reasonably wide range they offer, Wienerla - as you may expect - is a Vienna style lager.

It pours with a creamy head, one that lasted fairly well over the course of the drink. A light amber colour that's a tad hazy through being unfiltered. I can't read German all that well but the label says it is subject to "Drei-Maisch-Verfahren", includes Hallertau Merkur hops and treated to 8 weeks lagering (more than double what something like Budweiser is treated to).

Given this lager is relatively strong, the attempt here appears to be at using the hops for brightness and bitterness to balance the inevitably sweeter flavour. In the mouth there's a satisfying harmony, each individual element is brought together nicely. This provides a consistency. Each mouthful has a reliable hoppy hit, combined with a fully body and unfiltered tang that is well up my street. There's a clean, slightly drying finish which helps make it even more drinkable.

The bitterness isn't harsh but it flourishes within the beer, making a potential gloop-monster taste quite vibrant. No doubt whoever brewed this knows their onions. Beer onions. Beer.

Rating: ****


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Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
« Reply #997 on: November 19, 2020, 08:37:24 PM »


Schubel Kellerbock (7.2%) Maibock/Heller Bock
Brauerei Schubel, Stadtsteinach

Light bock has never been my favourite style. The increased strength forces brewers to find ever sicklier ways of compensating. But all that time the answer to the problem has been here. Make it unfiltered, slightly amber, spicy and fruity.

This bock is rich with a fine grainy sediment that hangs in the glass almost in stasis. 7.2% is no joke for a half litre bottle but to be quite honest it tastes more like 5.5% it's so smooth and balanced.

Unfiltered spice and tang, bready lager hit with faintly smokey aftertaste ends what is in the mouth a smooth velvety concoction with a pronounced apricot flavour. On Mallorca you can get pastries with apricot and sobrasada on - fruit and meat combined and the savoury/fruit blend brought those things to mind. It really is utterly lovely. Dusky, silky, prolonged fruit with malt and hop tingle.

The persistence of each element, the lingering flavours makes this one of the most interesting strong German beers I've ever had.
I'm not sure I have had many, if any beers like this. Schubel impressed me when I had their kellerbier back in May, this is on a similar, perhaps even better level. Highly recommend this brewery and its wares.

Given Germany is arch-traditional, this, along with several others of the Franco-lads wares are evidence they're really, really terrible at marketing just how good they are, not to mention how prepared they are to play around with the styles.

Rating: **** and a half

Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
« Reply #998 on: November 20, 2020, 09:26:41 PM »
Schubel sounds like a total stonker. I'll keep an eye out.

I got lucky and grabbed half a dozen Mahr's aU this evening on my way home. Never seen them in before but result because I almost ordered a case from bier-hibs or whatever. Bit knackered and getting a cold so just boosting some pretty decent IPA because I can't taste much (lol corono), on the Verdant Track and Field, but if I feel better tomorrow and not ventilated to fuck I'll be wheeling them out. Rather looking forward to them!

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Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
« Reply #999 on: November 23, 2020, 09:14:40 PM »
I hope the Mahr's aU was enjoyable. Big fan.

I'm on the Hutten Zoigl tonight. Liquid rye bread, very fresh. Dark brown, soft in the mouth then a zingy bitter, almost chewy sensation in the aftertaste. No gimmicks, dogshit branding, completely unfashionable. Wouldn't win any taste sample contests, instead it wins you over by the sip. Almost as though it's slowly adding patina of flavours on your tongue. As it disappears you want more. Pure fuckin' beer.

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Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
« Reply #1000 on: November 24, 2020, 10:19:24 PM »


Meinel-Brau Keller Marzen (5.6%) Marzen
Meinel-Brauu, Hof

A rare example of a Franconia brewery who have updated their branding. Quite clever, taking in some 50s stylings which will appeal to its base audience anyway. And what looks like a Fraulein on the label. Woke AF. AHH - That's why - this is a brewery owned and run by women. Rare as hen's teeth.

This beer is brewed in the city of Hof, right up in the Upper Palatinate/Oberpfalz, near the Czech border. Closest I've been was to Cheb, several years back. The city base might help explain why it enjoys smarter branding.

The label boasts caramel malt, hoppy aroma, longer cellaring and natural yeast, all of which are clearly true from sight, smell and taste.

First things first, this isn't quite as delightful as Weiherer Keller-Marzen, but then that is from a brewery with some serious chops. There's nothing wrong with this beer at all, it's very tasty as it happens. Given the absolute shite on show in the lager world, it should be firmly up in among good beers, but there's a hint of the 'off the rack' about it, like it's brewed off a set recipe. That might be a little harsh, as they may simply have been going for balance above all else. Or I might be right.

As far as balance goes, it works well. Strong, thick but with assertive bitterness. All elements blend well, yet none really puncture through to signal "Yes, this is what makes the beer distinctive." It is a tad gassy, I suppose. You can imagine knocking back a few and not really having anything to comment other than "Mm, very nice. Did the job."

The main tweak, if there is one is perhaps the choice of hops slightly screwing up the indulgent spice and unfiltered flavour. The bitterness and citric note is a bit of a bully and maybe doesn't achieve takeoff in the same way others might.

Rating: *** and a half






FerriswheelBueller

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Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
« Reply #1001 on: November 24, 2020, 10:47:39 PM »
^thats a lovely looking beer. Good for them.

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Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
« Reply #1002 on: November 24, 2020, 10:53:00 PM »
Should also say my partner tried their smoke beer Mephisto and gave that one top marks.

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Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
« Reply #1003 on: November 24, 2020, 11:05:23 PM »
Should also say my partner tried their smoke beer Mephisto and gave that one top marks.

I bet she did the dirty old etc etc

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Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
« Reply #1004 on: November 24, 2020, 11:06:35 PM »
I have an ok ESB on the go for anyone who cares.

It’s... fine. Perfunctory. Impossible to brew the style unless you’ve lived a life of english misery such as I, of course.

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Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
« Reply #1005 on: November 24, 2020, 11:21:23 PM »
Never had a decent ESB abroad, closest was Tea Time in Kraków which is a real rarity as that is a nano brewery that serves beer gravity poured direct from the tanks via some weird valve system so isn't even strictly speaking 'cask'.

The various attempts I've tried varied from the hapless to the absurd. What with this and the warm flat pints of London Pride in London I do wonder what on earth anyone abroad thinks of the style.

My old Swedish housemate loved cask pale after a while, but he could be trusted.

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Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
« Reply #1006 on: November 25, 2020, 01:03:25 AM »
It is over-carbed and over-strength. It’s a perfectly fine brown ale but it isn’t an ESB.

Happy to say the tin of NEIPA is very good so that’s something.

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Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
« Reply #1007 on: November 25, 2020, 07:08:08 PM »


Hütten Fichtelgold (5.8%) Marzen
Brauerei Hütten Trassel, Warmensteinach

Two more different Marzens you couldn't hope to find. Only 0.2% difference in abv between this and the one above, but they approach the style from other directions.

Meinel was hoppy, almost citric (certainly not a flavour most people associate with the style), whereas this has more in common with something like Hacker Pschorr Oktoberfest. Somewhere in the middle of the two you have the normal Marzens.

A rich chestnut brown colour (darker than above), thick but fine foam that's really enticing while pouring. The lacings are also really fine. One of those beer elements that doesn't guarantee a fresh beer but is a strong indicator.

Classic soft texture in the mouth, caramel malt and a sort of bronzed quality to the hops. You might think they are low down in the mix but actually they're doing plenty of work here, prickling away the proverbial furnace, pretty vital to make this a beer one can drink in volume.

It's fairly simple, but effective stuff. Autumnal, hearty and fresh.

Rating: ****

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Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
« Reply #1008 on: November 25, 2020, 08:22:31 PM »
It's time to update my list of these Franconian beers from Hier-Gibts-Bier.de. There have been 3 shipments in total - here is the shipment 2 update:

I'll be back with the update from the November lockdown batch in a few weeks. Additions in bold:

Pale Kellerbier/Zwickl biers

Mahrs aU - 9.5/10                  (Did I mention how this beer is close to being the best? Wonderous unfiltered lager)
Schubel Nordeck Trunk - 9/10    (Spicy with a citrusy hop)
Aufsesser Zwickl - 9/10             (Thick, unfiltered, tangy, farmhousey and light as air)
Hutten Zwickl - 8/10                  (Lighter than their Zoigl but still comparatively hefty)
Goller Kellerbier - 8/10              (An archetype of the style - cloudy, spicy, subtle hops and mildly agricultural notes)
St Georgen Kellerbier - 8/10 (I preferred this in bottles to the slightly too mellow tap serving. Brings out the finish a bit more)
Nikl Lagerbier Zwickl - 7.5/10    (Pale, super-refreshing with a slight crispness and citric element)
Nothaft Zwickl - 7.5/10          (Less bitter, highly drinkable, best keller-fresh to eke out every inch of flavour)
Mainseidla Keller - 7.5/10          (Pale and quite clear, minerality and green bitterness competing with gorgeous unfiltered tang)
Reh Zwickl - 7/10                      (Similar to Nikl and Schubel, enjoyable but less of a standout example)
Bamberger Keller - 7/10       (A tad sweet, a more trad 'expected' kellerbier with less of the homespun charm of the above)

Coppery Vollbier (inc. Kellerbiers/Landbiers)

Schubel 'a Frankisch' - 9.5/10       (One bottle was a dud, but the fresh one was pretty much the Ur-example of this style. Coppery, harmonious, gorgeous)
Simon Spezial - 8.5/10                       (Amber, Marzen-esque lager which starts nice then seems to get even nicer)
Honicka Heiner's Original - 8/10        (Floral bitterness with frothy soft but full textured ambery lager, a surprise find)
Fassla Zwergla - 8/10                   (Strong yet well-hopped brown landbier. Dry malty nutty backtaste. More Landbier than Munich Dunkel)
Reckendorfer Kellerbier - 7.5/0         (Brownish, easy drinking coppery malty lager)
Hetzelsdorfer Vollbier - 7.5/10          (Subtly creeps up on you. Not overly complex but stop searching and focus on the drinkability)
Meister Vollbier - 7.5/10                    (Soft in the mouth but bitter tingly hops and roast malt competing in aftertaste)
Buchenbacher Beck'n'bier - 7/10      (Low % for the style, but this is liquid pretzel. Roast malt, bready, tingly hops, good balance)
Schubel Drachenseidla - 7/10       (Despite the fancy name, a routine decent brown keller, tasty, fairly bitter)
Frauendorfer Landbier - 7/10           (A lynchpin of the style rather than an outstanding copper-brown kellerbier)
Hallerndorfer Kellerbier - 7/10          (More coppery coloured than you'd expect. Again roast malt, sweetness, tingly finish)
Stockl Ahorntaler Landbier - 7/10     (Brown, malty yet still refreshing. Not overly sweet. Lager mirror image of an English bitter

Dunkels/Brown kellerbier

Weiherer Zwickerla Dunkel - 9.5/10    (Almost overwhelmingly delicious. Reddish, full, thick, swirling, intoxicating and light as air)
Weissenohe Kloster Sud - 9/10       (Brown Vienna lager with much more complexity and indulgence that you'd expect)
Honicka Wonnesud - 8.5/10           (Every delicious drop of this smooth, rich, joyful Munich Dunkel is worth savouring.)
Weiherer Urstoffla - 8.5/10           (Munich Dunkel. Bready, malty, ever so slightly odd brown rather than dark beer. Standout)
Langbrau Burggraf Dunkel - 8/10      (Munich Dunkel, on the roasty end of things. Dry in the mouth but smooth finish and thick)
Bauernbier Dunkel - 8/10                   (Forgot my notes but this one was a terrific Munich dunkel)
Aufsesser Dunkel - 8/10                    (Only a shade darker than the brilliant Zwickel and nearly as good. Just a tone darker)
Ott Obaladara - 8/10                     (Smooth, sweet with a building bitterness. Indulgent)
Manns Brau - 8/10                         (Dark brown rather than black, big and malty, with hops trying to give chase, like Schwarzbier)
Bamberger Schwarzla - 8/10         (A straight up Schwarzbier, hoppy, black as night, roasty but slight coconut/oystery element)
Stelzer Ritter Trunk - 7.5/10          (Tough to miss out on an 8. This is real cro-magnon beer, roast malt, hearty, gothic)
Lindenharter Landbier - 7.5/10         (Make peace with the dark brown colour, and it is rich, toasty and full flavoured )
Bamberger Braunbier - 7.5/10           (Delicious Dunk/Keller hybrid. Malty but lively hops. The better end of both worlds)
Leupser Dunkel - 7/10                       (Dry wholemealy dunkel that has a very distinct character. Well brewed.
Gunther Bernstein - 5/10               (The malt doesn't sit quite right, unfortunately. Not in the same league)

Weissbier

Kuchlbauer Turmweisse - 9/10         (A genuine competitor for Schneider Original and Sternweisse for light brown wheatbeer flavour
Kapuziner Weissbier- 8.5/10       (One of the bigger names in this obscure list, but among the best wheatbeers out there.)
Gutmann Dunkles Weisen - 8.5/10(Bonafide classic. Among the best big-brew dark wheatbeers. So well balanced, deceptively drinkable.)
Nothelfer Bioweisse - 8/10               (A trad attempt at Bavarian wheatbeer that nails it. So fresh and worthy of high praise)
Kapuziner Kellermarzen                   (Interesting attempt to blend kellerbier and wheatbeer. Tough balance to strike but it works)
Schroll Nankendorfer Weizenbier - 6/10( (lost its head and went flat, flavour was ok)

Zoiglbiers

Stelzer Fattigau Zoigl - 8.5/10          (Great label. Vienna-style lager. Full flavour, caramel malt, well balanced bitter finish. Exemplary)
Kemnath Zoigl - 8.5/10                (Pale, bitter balance is impressive, unfiltered, unpasteurised, pure freshness)
Hutten Zoigl - 8/10                         (A stand-out brown beer that shows so much skill. Bursting with flavour yet moreishly drinkable )
Wurth Zoigl Hell - 8/10               (Really unusual. Earthy, leathery, fruity, faint smoke, then trad tangy, spicy aftertaste. Weird and good)
Rawetzter Zoigl - 8/10                (Pale keller, amber, thick, bitter at the front then thick gentle floral aftertaste, great stuff
Wurth Zoigl Dunkel - 7.5/10           (Weird one. Dunkel Zoigl. Malty yet thick and light. Unlike any beer I've had)   
Scherdel Zoigl - 7.5/10                   (Similar to a pale kellerbier but a little more spicy and thick. Nice but not a standout)
(Paul) Puttner Zoigl - 7.5/10          (Coppery kellerbier similar to the vollbiers above. Thick, sweet, hoppy and reddish brown
Monschof Zoigl - 7.5/10              (The most commercial beer with 'Zoigl' on it. Still pretty good but a more typical kellerbier experience)

Marzen
Monschof Historic Marzen - 8/10    (So light considering strength and sweetness, floaty, thick, fresh, pleasant hoppy landing and honeyed aftertaste)
Aufsesser Marzen - 7/10                 (Slightler lower strength cloudy amber Marzen. Pleasant without standing out.)


Weird/Atypical Ones

Leikem Steinbier - 8.5/10                       (An absolute one off - thick, strong light yet...faintly charred and elemental. Has to be tried)
Spezial Rauchbier - 8.5/10                     (May as well put it out there. This is better than Schlenkerla Marzen.)
Veldensteiner Rotbier - 8.5/10           (A style some pretend never existed. Whatever it is, it's brilliant. Reddish, rich, sweet, still lagery)
Langbrau Super Ale - 8/10                 (Weird but good. Unfiltered with hints of belgian blonde and kellerbier. It's an ale! Wheat in here too.)
Kaiser Heinrich Urstoff - 8/10                 (Deceptive bready Dortmunder style lager that just gets better with every gulp)
Hubner Vollbier  - 7.5/10                        (Smoked malt provides a surprise background flavour to this pale lager, and it works)
Frauendorfer Rauchbier - 7.5/10            (Smoke is not at the forefront, but it still props up the lager nicely)
Krug Brau Urstoff - 7.0/10                      (One of the less remarkable beers of this selection, but still enjoyable pleasant pale lager)
Langbrau Maibock - 6.5/10                    (Slight failure to launch, as the head disappeared leaving behind an appley-grassy  palebock)
Glenk Walkentrunk - 5/10                      (Disastrous. Something was wrong with the bottle. The head evaporated on impact with the glass.)
« Last Edit: November 25, 2020, 08:53:11 PM by Shoulders?-Stomach! »

Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
« Reply #1009 on: November 25, 2020, 08:36:18 PM »
This thread is a treasure trove. Took 3-5 years off my life but what am I gonna do with them? A fun run?

LGP

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Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
« Reply #1010 on: November 26, 2020, 06:17:30 PM »
https://www.beerwulf.com/en-gb/black-friday-beer-deals

Of potential interest to some, I'd imagine.

By the way - BeerWulf are phasing out individual bottle and can purchases and only selling pre-prepared cases from next year onwards.

I haven't used them for quite a while now as the range and value has got steadily poorer, but to see them doing this is pretty critical.

I wonder how Beers of Europe will cope post-Brexit. If at all.

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Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
« Reply #1011 on: November 27, 2020, 12:14:55 PM »
Thanks for the reviews and recommendations, Shoulders.

Ordered from hier-gibts-bier.de:

1 x Hönicka Wonnesud
1 x Weiherer Bio-Zwickerla Dunkel
1 x Weiherer Urstöffla
1 x Günther Bockbier Dunkel
1 x Mahrs a U
1 x Kuchlbauer Weißbier "Alte Liebe"
1 x Stelzer - Zoigl Bier
1 x Würth Zoigl Dunkel
1 x Hönicka Heiner's Original
1 x Held Dunkel
1 x Gutmann Dunkles Hefeweizen
1 x Würth Zoigl Hell

Fuck tier 3.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2020, 03:31:18 PM by Norton Canes »

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Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
« Reply #1012 on: November 27, 2020, 01:20:29 PM »
A very nice haul.

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Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
« Reply #1013 on: November 27, 2020, 07:59:03 PM »
I was just in my local Turkish shop and saw some bottles of Tuborg Fiçi. What's this? I thought. Could be a bit of a find. Turns out it's just another dull malty lager like they have in that Eastern Europe, glad I only bought one.

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Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
« Reply #1014 on: November 27, 2020, 08:09:03 PM »
It's still brewed by Carlsberg.

I would be more up for trying Turk Tuborg's "Frederik" range. Some more acceptable stuff there by the look of it.

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Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
« Reply #1015 on: November 27, 2020, 08:23:12 PM »
I have never seen Tuborg Classic for sale in the UK, that is the nicest one by far, although I also quite like the Julebryg.

Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
« Reply #1016 on: November 27, 2020, 09:37:18 PM »
Mahrs aU - 9.5/10                  (Did I mention how this beer is close to being the best? Wonderous unfiltered lager)

Just picked up a couple of these. Half a bottle in an couldn't agree more. It's quite the beer. It is unlike any other beer of it's type that I have had in that you get that initial blast of the Kellerbier taste but then when you expect the slightly funky after taste that sits in your throat it kinda just vanishes. It's simultaneously got a depth of flavour and is light as (well either that or I have covid and lost my sense of smell).

Thanks.

Blue Jam

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Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
« Reply #1017 on: November 27, 2020, 10:01:03 PM »
My local Saino's has stopped selling Leffe. Got some Duvel instead.

Cor, Duvel is not very nice, is it?

Blinder Data

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Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
« Reply #1018 on: November 27, 2020, 10:08:19 PM »
Aw, I like Duvel. It satisfies my infrequently indulged Belgium beer cravings when required.

My local Morrisons always has the same range of Scottish ales. Would be nice to have more choices BUT I am thankful to regular access to Orkney Brewery's Corncrake and Cairngorms Brewery's Trade Winds. Two fine, fine golden ales.

Cuellar

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Re: BEERS #2 - Beyond the Pale
« Reply #1019 on: November 27, 2020, 10:10:37 PM »
I've always found Duvel to be a solid everyday choice. Unremarkable but serviceable. Not the Citra stuff though because it's shite.

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