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March 28, 2024, 09:44:14 PM

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Am I wrong for thinking that celebrating Rose McGowan's Irishness is white power

Started by Dewt, April 03, 2020, 06:43:11 AM

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Quote from: sirhenry on April 03, 2020, 08:29:04 PM
The Scotii were the people of Northern Ireland who got so pissed off with living there that they crossed the water to live in the swampy, boggy wilderness that was South-west Scotland as we know it today where no-one would bother them for another 1500 years because no-one else wanted to live there. The local folk hero in those parts is a chap called Sawney (or Sean) Bean[nb]Alexander "Sawney" Bean was said to be the head of a 45-member clan in Scotland in the 16th century that murdered and cannibalized over 1000 people in the span of 25 years.[/nb], a cannibalistic psychopath of epic proportions. They also appeared to be living in the Iron Age a thousand years after the rest of the world had moved on to proper history, but no-one cared, not even the plump and tender Christian missionaries.
So, of course, when the opportunity arose for them to fuck off en masse to the States, they did so in huge numbers, if only for a change of diet and some time free of trenchfoot.

My grandfather came from there and I am so glad he did and never went back.

The Sawney Bean story is a load of old bollocks.  Most probably invented by a sort of 18th-Century Sunday Sport as deliberately lurid, sensationalist 'fake news.'

The Scots Irish in the hillbilly states of the eastern US were basically serial emigrants.  They are/were descendants of Protestant Scots who were 'planted' in Ulster by the Brits after the Union of Scottish and English Crowns, in order to provide Britain with a buffer against the would-be belligerents of Catholic Ireland who weren't too happy about having their country being colonised.  London wanted to minimise the chance of rebellious Irish and rebellious West Highland Scots teaming up to give them problems.  Lots of the new Scots inhabitants of Ulster fucked off to the Blue Ridge Mountains of Virginia and what have you, becoming Scatch-Irish, a term which no-one this side of the Atlantic recognises, even if pronounced correctly.

There was a further wave of Irish, mainly Catholic, emigration to the States around the time of the 19th C potato famines. 

All intermingled nowadays, of course, into some vague and incoherent notion of being from the Old Country, though this does a disservice to those with a genuine appreciation of their own roots - not necessarily a bad thing in an increasingly homogenised world.



Thomas

Quote from: Poirots BigGarlickyCorpse on April 03, 2020, 09:22:56 PM
Have you ever seen the Ken Burns series "The West"? It really hammers home that the United States is all stolen land. Every scrap stolen from the people who were already living there when the white settlers came. Then they went to Africa and stole people to work the stolen land. Then they got Chinese people to build railways on the stolen land before promptly treating all those workers like shit. If you're American and white and you know all this, it's got to be hard to have any sense of national pride. Your nation exists because of genocide, and genocide that's relatively recent and also incomplete because the peoples that "your people" fought to near extinction are still living on shitty reservations with their cultures and languages in tatters. All your black friends, assuming you have any, experience challenges and obstacles you will not face because less than two hundred years ago white people like you literally owned their ancestors. But if you can say that your ancestors only arrived in America a hundred and fifty years ago, you can say that you're not responsible for that. And if the story of your family in America is that they fled from a terrible famine and were treated like shit in America but worked their way up and now here you are all middle - well, not-poor-class, maybe that can be the story of America, too. Instead of the genocide and slavery.

A cogent and interesting summary, nice one, Poirots.

It's a startlingly effective propaganda job; even now, the bloody birth of the USA is recounted as the proud and righteous beginning of the attainable, egalitarian Dream. It still sticks in the popular consciousness. They must've got the 18th century Don Draper in.

Dewt

Quote from: Mrs Wogans lemon drizzle on April 03, 2020, 11:34:26 PM
OP seems to have form for shouting RACIST! Weird.
I think most reasonable people can read the tone of the thread as intended

But then there's you, a small bitch

Irish Americans might be the most irritating cunts in the universe and tend to be right-wing conservative racists who consider themselves more Irish than non-white people who were born and raised in Ireland. HOWEVER I think a part of this is Dewt being jealous that despite the USA and Canada being founded by the English, nobody ever proclaims their Anglo heritage with pride because being English is profoundly uncool. Don't hate us cos you ain't us cuz.

Quote from: Thomas on April 03, 2020, 11:42:08 PM
A cogent and interesting summary, nice one, Poirots.

It's a startlingly effective propaganda job; even now, the bloody birth of the USA is recounted as the proud and righteous beginning of the attainable, egalitarian Dream. It still sticks in the popular consciousness. They must've got the 18th century Don Draper in.
Yep, the worst example is Colombus day - sure humans first arrived in North America about 15000 years ago, and sure the Vikings were the first Europeans to travel to modern-day USA a good 500 years before Columbus, lets take a day to commemorate the guy who kick-started the colonisation and genocide of Native Americans for shits and giggles.

Dewt

Quote from: Carpool Dragon on April 03, 2020, 11:49:26 PM
Irish Americans might be the most irritating cunts in the universe and tend to be right-wing conservative racists who consider themselves more Irish than non-white people who were born and raised in Ireland. HOWEVER I think a part of this is Dewt being jealous that despite the USA and Canada being founded by the English, nobody ever proclaims their Anglo heritage with pride because being English is profoundly uncool. Don't hate us cos you ain't us cuz.
I'm Irish, 23andme said so.

Another good one is the idea that they were somehow on the side of the Americans during the Revolutionary War but also from the old country in a way that reflects culture developed during the 1800s-1900s. How does that work then

I often get poked at in a well-meaning way about the revolutionary war and have to point out that I doubt that my ancestors played any part in that or were even British at that time, but that theirs probably were. I don't care if that's accurate, I just like saying it to them.

Mister Six

Quote from: The Culture Bunker on April 03, 2020, 09:10:19 PM
If you mean hick towns in America, I've been to Boston, NY and LA and the locals have all thought I was from Sweden or somewhere. English accents that aren't RP, cockney or like one of the Beatles seem a bit of a mystery to them.

I'm from Yorkshire, but a bloke at my dog park in Manhattan identified me as an Australian.

"I'm English," I said.

"You sound Australian," he said.

"No I don't," I replied.

No offence to any Aussies, but what the fuck? The arrogance of telling someone what they sound like, rather than saying "Oh, I think you sound like..."

It's a little semantic distinction, but it says a lot.

pigamus

Quote from: Dewt on April 03, 2020, 11:46:40 PM
I think most reasonable people can read the tone of the thread as intended

But then there's you, a small bitch

I have a slight crush on poster Dewt, there I've said it, damn the consequences

Dewt

I am really cool. If you see me sometimes I put my feet up on the desk and I honestly think you'd swoon and faint

Dewt

Quote from: Mister Six on April 03, 2020, 11:58:10 PM
I'm from Yorkshire, but a bloke at my dog park in Manhattan identified me as an Australian.

"I'm English," I said.

"You sound Australian," he said.

"No I don't," I replied.

No offence to any Aussies, but what the fuck? The arrogance of telling someone what they sound like, rather than saying "Oh, I think you sound like..."

It's a little semantic distinction, but it says a lot.
I always get Americans to guess if they ask where I'm from. Most get it right, some say Irish and I ask what is going through their heads. I think it's because living here you kinda code switch to say things in a more American way with strangers in order to be understood, and that comes out a bit Irish

Elderly Sumo Prophecy

Quote from: Dewt on April 04, 2020, 12:28:49 AM
I am really cool. If you see me sometimes I put my feet up on the desk and I honestly think you'd swoon and faint

Hmm. How bigs your winkle?

Ferris

Quote from: Dewt on April 04, 2020, 12:30:48 AM
I always get Americans to guess if they ask where I'm from. Most get it right, some say Irish and I ask what is going through their heads. I think it's because living here you kinda code switch to say things in a more American way with strangers in order to be understood, and that comes out a bit Irish

I get Newfoundland a lot because I sound like a mid Atlantic twat.

Mango Chimes

Quote from: Mister Six on April 03, 2020, 11:58:10 PM
I'm from Yorkshire, but a bloke at my dog park in Manhattan identified me as an Australian.

"I'm English," I said.

"You sound Australian," he said.

"No I don't," I replied.

In this bit, you sound like Jon Ronson.

pigamus



Mister Six

Quote from: Dewt on April 04, 2020, 12:30:48 AM
I always get Americans to guess if they ask where I'm from. Most get it right, some say Irish and I ask what is going through their heads. I think it's because living here you kinda code switch to say things in a more American way with strangers in order to be understood, and that comes out a bit Irish

Where are you from?

Quote from: Mango Chimes on April 04, 2020, 12:57:13 AM
In this bit, you sound like Jon Ronson.

I sound more like Jon Ronson than (Googles famous Australians called "Jon", comes up with a guy called "Jon English")... never mind.

Sebastian Cobb

Quote from: Dewt on April 04, 2020, 12:28:49 AM
I am really cool. If you see me sometimes I put my feet up on the desk and I honestly think you'd swoon and faint

It's you what faints, then they have to put your legs down and make the upset run all back down into your legs and feet.

Cerys



Dewt

Quote from: Sebastian Cobb on April 04, 2020, 02:41:25 AM
It's you what faints, then they have to put your legs down and make the upset run all back down into your legs and feet.
Yeah that's really good Sebastian

Sony Walkman Prophecies

Quote from: Clatty McCutcheon on April 03, 2020, 10:10:00 PM
The Sawney Bean story is a load of old bollocks.  Most probably invented by a sort of 18th-Century Sunday Sport as deliberately lurid, sensationalist 'fake news.'

The Scots Irish in the hillbilly states of the eastern US were basically serial emigrants.  They are/were descendants of Protestant Scots who were 'planted' in Ulster by the Brits after the Union of Scottish and English Crowns, in order to provide Britain with a buffer against the would-be belligerents of Catholic Ireland who weren't too happy about having their country being colonised.

And seventeen US presidents to date have been from Ulster, or have claimed Ulster lineage, which is quite incredible when you think about it. Like discovering twenty of last three century's popes have been from Bradford.

Sony Walkman Prophecies

Quote from: Carpool Dragon on April 03, 2020, 11:49:26 PM
Irish Americans might be the most irritating cunts in the universe and tend to be right-wing conservative racists who consider themselves more Irish than non-white people who were born and raised in Ireland. HOWEVER I think a part of this is Dewt being jealous that despite the USA and Canada being founded by the English, nobody ever proclaims their Anglo heritage with pride because being English is profoundly uncool. Don't hate us cos you ain't us cuz.

Americans, I've found, will quite willfully disclose their English ancestory to you. What they won't do is proclaim it loudly in a bar, jabbing at their chest, wearing a mockingly tall green fuzzy hat with a shamrock and a four leaf clover on it. Discretion. It's in the genes.

pancreas

Just caught up with this to catch the beginning of the big crescendo. Please carry on:

the horn section, please ...

thenoise

I think white Americans are well aware of their dodgy history, which is why they are even more desperate to exaggerate any part of their ancestory that is vaguely 'ethnic' than English people who take those dubious DNA tests. They even have a word 'WASP' a pseudo-slur for the wrong kind of white person (White Anglo Saxon Protestant) so they can proudly declare themselves Irish Catholic or Celtic or French and convince themselves that they are an oppressed minority with nothing to do with the European slave trade (etc). They are peculiarly obsessed with race/ethnicity, but it is not because they don't recognise the 'guilt' of being white - they are utterly fixated on it.

Ambient Sheep

Quote from: sirhenry on April 03, 2020, 08:29:04 PMThe Scotii were the people of Northern Ireland who got so pissed off with living there that they crossed the water to live in the swampy, boggy wilderness that was South-west Scotland as we know it today where no-one would bother them for another 1500 years because no-one else wanted to live there.

Or as Billy Connolly once memorably put it while discussing human migration out of Africa etc.: "Wait!!  I know an even colder place!!"

Shoulders?-Stomach!

Fortunately all of the USA is being shut down and its inhabitants scissored into oblite, in recognition of its 'severe administrative failings'.

I shouldn't think we will get anymore of this whole "you sound Australian" atrocity-tier behaviour.

It's hard to imagine Geoffrey Boycott in Crocodile Dundee, but not impossible. Just picture him pulling out a massive knife when threatening his wife.

Zetetic

"THE BOYS IN THE NY PAEDO CHOIR" makes more sense than the original lyric if you think about it hard enough.