Author Topic: The Brand New All Encompassing Movie Musical Thread  (Read 2920 times)

Small Man Big Horse

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Re: The Brand New All Encompassing Movie Musical Thread
« Reply #30 on: June 21, 2020, 08:13:11 PM »
Darling Lili (1970) - This really is an odd World War One set film, as Lili (Julie Andrews) is a popular English stage singer but also an undercover German spy who we're supposed to like, despite the fact that she uses her breasts and vagina to get British officers to reveal their secrets. She also often acts like a spoilt brat and is rather irritating in general, and gets the major arse on when after falling for her latest target, Major William Larrabee (Rock Hudson), she discovers he might be also dating a stripper and puts all of their lives in danger. It's one of those musicals where the songs are only performed with a band and a stage and so of the variety I'm not that huge a fan of, and the songs aren't that special annoyingly either with only a couple appealing. There are some positives, at times the story is an unusual one, the aerial sequences are decent, and Rock Hudson is good value for money (even though I've no idea why he likes that self absorbed cunt Lili), but it goes on for an age, with the ending dragging, and disappointing too as Lili didn't die or wasn't imprisoned for life and somewhat ridiculously she gets her man in the end. 5.1/10

Re: The Brand New All Encompassing Movie Musical Thread
« Reply #31 on: June 22, 2020, 06:12:06 PM »
I've not seen the film version but I did see it on stage last year, as it was produced by Sedos who are technically an amateur group but they have their own theatre and a lot of funding, and it was really impressive, a musical I had a huge amount of time for and the two and a half hours flew by, so I definitely do plan to seek out the film version sooner rather than later.

That's really interesting to hear, I think I'd definitely have liked it a hell of a lot more if there had featured all the songs in it, especially as it sounds like they mostly flesh out the characters I had issues with.

I'm quite jealous of the two of you seeing that! Think that's a good idea about waiting a little longer to watch the film - as mentioned they do revise it for the screen, but feel it's a great transfer.

re: Forum - I'm inclined to your view; as I say I'm fond of the film but it's not perfect!

Although I'm inclined to see Domina in a slightly different light, I'm not sure if the stage version would salve all your issues with those characters.

As I say, I feel that Forum does reflect the influences of the Roman farces in the portrayal of those female characters, but it's worth a mention that the older work is arguably more nuanced than many would expect - e.g. I've seen it argued that Plautus did comment about how females were objectified in Roman society.

Forum was based on the play, Pseudolus - which I think you'll recognise the set-up!

Quote
Once the play starts Calidorus and Pseudolus enter the stage, Calidorus is visibly upset. After Pseudolus pushes his master's son to tell him what is wrong, Calidorus shows him a letter he received. Pseudolus first mocks the poor handwriting it is written in then reads the letter, which says that Calidorus' lover Phoenicium, a prostitute, has been sold and the man who is supposed to come with the last of the money to pay for her and pick her up for her new master is coming very soon. Calidorus obviously wants to save her but he has no money of his own and his father won't lend him any to help save her. He turns to Pseudolus, who is his father's chief slave, for help. Pseudolus doesn't have the money they require to buy her, but thinks he can improvise a plan to get it and to save Phoenicium.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pseudolus

Re: The Brand New All Encompassing Movie Musical Thread
« Reply #32 on: June 22, 2020, 06:32:53 PM »
Hello, Dolly! (1969) - Barbra Steisand's Dolly can fix anything for anyone, except that the man she wants to seduce, Horace Vandergelder (Walter Matthau), is interested in someone else. Meanwhile Vandergelder's niece wants to marry an artist but Vandergelder ain't having any of that, and his employee (Michael Crawford, showing off the flare for physical comedy he'd become famous for in a couple of years time) is twenty eight and three quarters and downright annoyed that he's never snogged anyone, so he and Barnaby (Dunno, some bloke) are off to New York, with Dolly orchestrating the lives of everyone else for her own wicked means. Streisland's superb and all kinds of foxy but it's actually Crawford and his beau Irene Molloy (Marianne McAndrew) who are the MVP's as they have the dafter and more playful moments, and it's hard to understand why Dolly would be interested in Vandergelder given what a cunt he is, and his sudden change of mind towards her doesn't add up either, Matthau apparently despised Streisand in real life and that definitely comes across here. Otherwise this is lovely stuff though, as it's based on a Broadway musical from the mid sixties the songs aren't particularly inventive sound wise but the lyrics are strong and often very funny, and it's that rare beast, a musical with lots of dance numbers that I enjoyed with the one in the Harmonia Gardens restaurant being a particular delight. 8.0/10

Great you enjoyed it - that was one I was planning to post about!

Very nicely executed and it looks (and sounds) great - I'm particularly fond of the Harmonia Gardens bit, so feel validated!

Streisand was really too young for the role (Carol 'Raspberries' Channing played Dolly in the first version) but happy to overlook it. Danny Lockin, who played Barnaby, toured in the musical version and played with a variety of 'Dollies' and it was interesting to read his thoughts. I first saw it as a child and Lockin was probably the stand-out for me and wondered why he didn't appear in more - when I later read about him, it was all rather sad (his career rather stalled and died in very tragic, violent conditions).

All the cast as really good and I adore Matthau, so him in it is pure gravy for me. EJ Parker, who played Minnie, co-starred in the Robert Morse series I mentioned... and I think Morse performed in the play, The Matchmake, which Dolly is based on.

re: Streisand - from what I've read, she greatly irritated everyone and kept putting her oar in to Kelly about how to shoot it; she's to a degree acknowledged that, saying because it was early in her career, she wanted it to be perfect and that's why she behaved the way she did. Matthau famously said to her, 'you have as much talent as one of my farts (or a gnat's fart, depending on the version)' when telling her to shut up and let Kelly direct.

I think it was in the Harry Thompson biography about Peter Cook that mentions they wanted to Stanley Donen to direct Dolly, but he opted to do Bedazzled instead - not sure if it was in that book, but I read his fee for Dolly would have been equivalent to the entire budget of Bedazzled.

The making of Hello Dolly doesn't sound very fun overall - e.g. when they shot the parade scene, it was so hot that extras were fainting from the heat due to the heavy costumes they had to wear.

Re: The Brand New All Encompassing Movie Musical Thread
« Reply #33 on: June 22, 2020, 06:34:32 PM »
Darling Lili (1970) -

Not sure I've seen this one. I did want to see it, but will be tempering expectations![/quote]

Small Man Big Horse

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Re: The Brand New All Encompassing Movie Musical Thread
« Reply #34 on: June 23, 2020, 07:29:38 PM »
I'm quite jealous of the two of you seeing that! Think that's a good idea about waiting a little longer to watch the film - as mentioned they do revise it for the screen, but feel it's a great transfer.

It really was something a bit special, I've seen a couple of other things they've produced and it's been a mixed bag (and their version of Soho Cinders I struggled a fair bit with) but this was enormous fun, if they ever re-stage it I'll definitely let you know.

Quote
re: Forum - I'm inclined to your view; as I say I'm fond of the film but it's not perfect!

Although I'm inclined to see Domina in a slightly different light, I'm not sure if the stage version would salve all your issues with those characters.

As I say, I feel that Forum does reflect the influences of the Roman farces in the portrayal of those female characters, but it's worth a mention that the older work is arguably more nuanced than many would expect - e.g. I've seen it argued that Plautus did comment about how females were objectified in Roman society.

Forum was based on the play, Pseudolus - which I think you'll recognise the set-up!

Quote
Once the play starts Calidorus and Pseudolus enter the stage, Calidorus is visibly upset. After Pseudolus pushes his master's son to tell him what is wrong, Calidorus shows him a letter he received. Pseudolus first mocks the poor handwriting it is written in then reads the letter, which says that Calidorus' lover Phoenicium, a prostitute, has been sold and the man who is supposed to come with the last of the money to pay for her and pick her up for her new master is coming very soon. Calidorus obviously wants to save her but he has no money of his own and his father won't lend him any to help save her. He turns to Pseudolus, who is his father's chief slave, for help. Pseudolus doesn't have the money they require to buy her, but thinks he can improvise a plan to get it and to save Phoenicium.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pseudolus

I'd still definitely like to see the stage version, if only to hear the songs which were omitted from the film, and if it changes my view of it as a whole. And I had no idea it was based on such an ancient play, and just hope the playwright's descendants got royalties. ;)

Great you enjoyed it - that was one I was planning to post about!

Very nicely executed and it looks (and sounds) great - I'm particularly fond of the Harmonia Gardens bit, so feel validated!

Streisand was really too young for the role (Carol 'Raspberries' Channing played Dolly in the first version) but happy to overlook it. Danny Lockin, who played Barnaby, toured in the musical version and played with a variety of 'Dollies' and it was interesting to read his thoughts. I first saw it as a child and Lockin was probably the stand-out for me and wondered why he didn't appear in more - when I later read about him, it was all rather sad (his career rather stalled and died in very tragic, violent conditions).

You're right about Streisand being too young, given that she's supposed to have been widowed a fair while back and had such a reputation in the city it doesn't make sense that she's so young, but her voice is so alluring in it I can't complain.

Quote
All the cast as really good and I adore Matthau, so him in it is pure gravy for me. EJ Parker, who played Minnie, co-starred in the Robert Morse series I mentioned... and I think Morse performed in the play, The Matchmake, which Dolly is based on.

re: Streisand - from what I've read, she greatly irritated everyone and kept putting her oar in to Kelly about how to shoot it; she's to a degree acknowledged that, saying because it was early in her career, she wanted it to be perfect and that's why she behaved the way she did. Matthau famously said to her, 'you have as much talent as one of my farts (or a gnat's fart, depending on the version)' when telling her to shut up and let Kelly direct.

I think it was in the Harry Thompson biography about Peter Cook that mentions they wanted to Stanley Donen to direct Dolly, but he opted to do Bedazzled instead - not sure if it was in that book, but I read his fee for Dolly would have been equivalent to the entire budget of Bedazzled.

The making of Hello Dolly doesn't sound very fun overall - e.g. when they shot the parade scene, it was so hot that extras were fainting from the heat due to the heavy costumes they had to wear.

Matthau is definitely fun, his grumpiness fits the role perfectly even if it's a shame he couldn't summon up the ability to pretend to like Streisand at any point in the film! That's interesting to hear about the making of the film in general though, I'm just looking at a couple of articles about it now and it does seem rather unpleasant, but hey, at least it was worth it in the long run. And I'm also glad that Julie Andrews or Elizabeth Taylor weren't cast in the lead role either, Streisand may not have been perfect but I can't imagine either working.

Not sure I've seen this one. I did want to see it, but will be tempering expectations!

Perhaps if I'd known it wasn't a proper musical I might not have been so disappointed, but even then Andrews character is so annoying I doubt I'd have loved it, I like Andrews a lot elsewhere (Thoroughly Modern Millie especially) but here she's a selfish so and so and just someone I didn't care for at all, which is problematic when you're supposed to root for her.

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Re: The Brand New All Encompassing Movie Musical Thread
« Reply #35 on: June 27, 2020, 05:18:13 PM »
Rockula (1990) - Ralph (Dean Cameron) and his mom Phoebe (Tony Basil) are vampires, and slightly rubbish ones at that, in this truly bizarre film that contains a complicated plot concerning a romance between Ralph and Mona (Tawny Fere) which takes place every 22 years, but each time a pirate comes along and fucks things up, only for Mona to be then reincarnated. This time vampire Ralph is determined to save her, though the extremely camp video director and "Death Park" owner Stanley (Thomas Dolby) has other plans, and will Mona want to fuck a vampire, anyhow? It's one of those musicals where the majority of the songs are performed on stage with a band present annoyingly, but a couple aren't at least, and nearly all of them are dumb but fun pop numbers with insanely idiotic but quite funny lyrics, and as this is a film the lead character gets hit by a car but carries on singing a song it's impossible to dislike, even if this is a weird, cheesy and often plan ridiculous movie. 6.4/10

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Re: The Brand New All Encompassing Movie Musical Thread
« Reply #36 on: June 27, 2020, 10:51:33 PM »
Goodbye Mr Chips (1969) - Peter O'Toole's a stick in the mud teacher in 1920's England who meets actress Ms Katherine Bridges (Petula Clark) while on holiday in Pompeii, and upon returning to England the two fall for each other. But can the loud and sweary Katherine fit in to life at the uptight school Mr Chipping works at? Or will she start  sucking off all the students? She's certainly a hit with the boys so even though such scenes were not included in the film I bet she was, the dirty old bollocks. There's a time jump of about 15 years two thirds of the way through the film so that it can deal with the second world war and take a darker turn, though that makes it feel like a slightly oddly paced work, and I can't say many of the songs did it for me (though two featuring the students are really fun) but the film as a whole is an extremely charming work. Clark's certainly pretty great, her actress friend Ursula (Siân Phillips) is even better, and O'Toole's uptight school master is an endearing creation and one who made me want to be a proper teacher myself until I remembered what cunts children are today. 8.1/10

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Re: The Brand New All Encompassing Movie Musical Thread
« Reply #37 on: July 04, 2020, 08:16:08 PM »
Office (2015) - A co-production between Hong Kong and China, this is a visually impressive musical dramedy about the collapse of the financial markets in America and the effect that has on a company in an unnamed Asian city. Which might not sound like the stuff of hilarity but the first two thirds are a light hearted affair about status, ambition, and identity, along with hints of romance between the two leads, and the songs are really enjoyable, mostly short but definitely sweet and very funny pieces with memorable lyrics, a drinking song about ambition and an ode to hometown life being my favourites. When it takes a more serious turn in the final third it definitely becomes a lesser work, and the ending feels a bit rushed, but the first eighty minutes are so strong it's still a must see for musical fans. 7.4/10

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Re: The Brand New All Encompassing Movie Musical Thread
« Reply #38 on: July 05, 2020, 08:19:44 PM »
Shock Treatment (1981) - Sort of sequel to The Rocky Horror Show where Brad and Janet are in the audience for what looks like a wholesome small town tv show, but naturally it's more disturbing than it initially appears and soon Brad is carted off to a mental hospital and spends most of the film drugged up and tied up, and Janet's made in to a huge star, one who increasingly has no time for poor old Brad. A fair few of the original cast are back albeit in different roles, and newcomers Barry Humphries, Ruby Wax and Rik Mayall are along for the ride, but it's a slightly flimsy affair, there's some satire of the media, fame, the mental health industry, consumerism and masculinity, but it feels a little mild, and though the songs are often fun (Shock Treatment, Lullaby and Bitchin' In The Kitchen being the ones I found most memorable) there's nothing even close to the songs found in O'Brien's much loved first musical. Indeed if you compare it to that it comes off wanting in the extreme, but if you pretend Rocky doesn't exist it fares better, though a fairly limp ending is frustrating and means it's unlikely I'll ever revisit it. 6.3/10

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Re: The Brand New All Encompassing Movie Musical Thread
« Reply #39 on: July 12, 2020, 08:35:20 PM »
Brigadoon (1954) - Shamefully I'd only previously seen two of Vincente Minnelli's musicals (On a Clear Day You Can See Forever and Meet Me In St. Louis) even though he's considered one of the best directors of the genre and I'm very fond of the films I have seen of his. It's an unusual creation however, as two Americans (Gene Kelly and Van Johnson) are lost in the highlands of Scotland and then discover the rather small town of Brigadoon where thanks to some mad fucker the residents of the town only live one day per century and the rest of the time the place mysteriously disappears. Quite a few of the women throw themselves at our American fellas as there's a distinct lack of single men in the town, much to Van Johnson's horror and Kelly's delight, and so romantic hijinks ensue, but though the songs are mostly charming and it's often quite funny, there's a little too much dancing and not quite enough singing for my own personal liking. 7.2/10

Re: The Brand New All Encompassing Movie Musical Thread
« Reply #40 on: July 13, 2020, 10:55:08 AM »
Newsies (1992)

Christian Bale launching vehicle Disney live-action musical. Effectively an Americanised version of Oliver!; based off a true-story about young Newspaper sellers in New York going on strike against the magnate Joseph Pulitzer.
To be honest; I couldn't get through the first 20 minutes. Couldn't make out even the chorus of the early songs be sung or the reason the nuns were hanging around. Blatantly inferior to Oliver!, some reasonable dance scenes but I had to drop out.
Did check out the first half-hour of the stage-musical remake and that seemed far superior; better quality of delivery on the songs, funner staging and clearer narrative.

For the original Disney Film: 2.0 out of 10.

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Re: The Brand New All Encompassing Movie Musical Thread
« Reply #41 on: July 13, 2020, 09:18:25 PM »
Newsies (1992)

Christian Bale launching vehicle Disney live-action musical. Effectively an Americanised version of Oliver!; based off a true-story about young Newspaper sellers in New York going on strike against the magnate Joseph Pulitzer.
To be honest; I couldn't get through the first 20 minutes. Couldn't make out even the chorus of the early songs be sung or the reason the nuns were hanging around. Blatantly inferior to Oliver!, some reasonable dance scenes but I had to drop out.
Did check out the first half-hour of the stage-musical remake and that seemed far superior; better quality of delivery on the songs, funner staging and clearer narrative.

For the original Disney Film: 2.0 out of 10.

I've not seen the Disney version but I did watch the stage version about a month ago and quite enjoyed it, it's nothing that special, and I didn't download the soundtrack afterwards which suggests the songs aren't all that, but it passed the time well enough.

Voyage Of The Rock Aliens (1984) - Pia Zadora and Craig Sheffer star in this very eighties sci-fi comedy musical where a bunch of aliens in a guitar shaped spaceship are supposedly on a scientific mission but after having heard rock music they're desperate to find out which planet it came from, and that leads them to visiting Earth and the small town of "Speelburgh" where they get up to all manner of silly hijinks. This is about as daft as comedy got in the eighties but it's mostly very likeable stuff, a lot of the songs are short bursts of enjoyable ridiculousness and a couple of them are even quite catchy, but it loses a couple of points due to having a very disjointed and sightly disappointing ending. 6.8/10

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Re: The Brand New All Encompassing Movie Musical Thread
« Reply #42 on: July 18, 2020, 10:54:40 PM »
Gigi (1958) - A Paris based musical which contains Maurice Chevalier singing the song "Thank Heaven For Little Girls" so fucking hell, it should be #cancelled straight away, and the rest of it's pretty fucking dodgy too as Gigi's a 15 year old (played thankfully by the 26 year old Leslie Caron) who is seduced by a family friend much much older than her, so yeah, this is never going to be restaged now without some serious revisions going on. It's a shame she's so young as otherwise it's enjoyable material, a sort of Dr Doolittle type affair where Gigi is being taught how to be a young lady by her grandmother but Gaston Lachaille (Louis Jourdan) comes along and falls in love with her. It has a surprisingly weird sense of humour at times too as Gaston celebrates the suicide attempt of a woman he broke up with after she cheated on him, and his Uncle Honoré (Maurice Chevalier) is a slutty motherfucker in general, but the songs that are jaunty and extremely fun, bar the couple which are jaunty and creepy. If you can pretend that Gigi's about 22 this could have been a classic, though the rushed and slightly messy ending does lose it a couple of points and it's a shame the finale isn't expanded upon slightly as Gaston's sudden change of mind doesn't make much sense. 7.6/10

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Re: The Brand New All Encompassing Movie Musical Thread
« Reply #43 on: July 19, 2020, 06:25:19 PM »
The Nightmare Before Christmas (1993) - Poor old Jack has lost his passion for terrifying others at Halloween, but after discovering the existence of Christmas he plans to hijack it and bring joy to the world. Of course it all goes wrong and a very disturbing time is had by all, as predicted by the very horny Sally who is desperate to jump Jack's bones. Ahem. Sorry, couldn't resist, etc. It's beautifully designed, looks amazing in general, has a fun script and the songs are likeable, but only a couple fall in to the "Hey, I want to listen to that when not watching the movie" category. 7.5/10

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Re: The Brand New All Encompassing Movie Musical Thread
« Reply #44 on: August 02, 2020, 12:27:23 AM »
The Last Five Years (2014) - Which begins with Anna Kendrick lamenting a failed relationship, before we jump back and witness a selection of vignettes from their five years together. It's song after song after song after that and the majority of them are great as it follows the relationship between Kenrdick's struggling actress and Jeremy Jordan's successful writer, Kendrick's quickly becoming an actress I'm shockingly fond of after this, Dummy and that Chris Morris film she was in, while Jordan (also very strong in the pro-shot version of Newsies) is very good too. Musically there's not a huge amount of variation, and perhaps it's one for musical fans only, but hey, that's me, and so I rate it 7.7/10

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Re: The Brand New All Encompassing Movie Musical Thread
« Reply #45 on: August 02, 2020, 06:15:55 PM »
The Great Muppet Caper (1981) - Identical twins Kermit and Fozzie are investigative reporters who head over to the UK to chat to Diana Rigg as she's had her diamond jewels stolen. It's lovely stuff in general, there's lots of great fourth wall breaking jokes, John Cleese has a fun cameo as a very mild mannered fella, Miss Piggy's water ballet sequence is amazing, and the songs are cute in general, there's nothing that amazing but all are likeable. Plus at the end in the big fight I'm pretty sure that Piggy punches two of the women in the vagina, and Charles Grodin is so convincing that I'm certain he genuinely wants to fuck a pig, and what more could you want from a movie than that? 7.7/10

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