Do not leave the Labour Party.

[holyzombiejesus]

Don't leave. Just don't.

It's your choice, but every socialist who rips up their membership card will be a cause of celebration those who want Labour to abandon its progressive policies, like taxing the rich to invest, scrapping tuition fees, expanding the welfare state and public ownership.

There are NEC elections coming up and it's imperative that left wingers are elected. If all the people understandably pissed off about STarmer throw their cards in the bin and cancel their direct debits then we really are screwed. People need to stay and fight, just like the likes of Benn, Corbyn and McDonnell did when Blair and his lot were controlling the party. The left needs you to stay.

[Thomas]

Yes. There's no point celebrating that Corbyn managed to 'shift the conversation' if you're not going to stick around to help maintain the new direction.

A typically retro graphic from Another Angry Voice:

[Buelligan]

Is humanity worth saving?  Asking for a friend.

I think it is.  But I need to stop staring at it today, too much ugliness and stupidity, too much ego, far, far too often, it's no good at all for the soul.  Poisonous stuff, so it is.

[Kelvin]

I'll echo that sentiment, that, for now at least we need to stay in the party, to hold Starmer to account. If the party truly is fucked, and they make decisions that no decent person could support, leave then. Not now, as a hollow, petulant protest. The last flickering glimmer of hope remains with the membership retaining a voice. By leaving, you make the right wing's job easier, not harder.

[NoSleep]

I'm not going anywhere.

[Fambo Number Mive]

I'm staying in.

[holyzombiejesus]

These responses are heartening in a pretty shit weekend for Socialism.

[BlodwynPig]

I've cancelled my pending UKIP membership and returned to the fold

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

I'm staying in for now. May as well at least wait for the shit things to happen first rather than leaving because of the prospect of them.

It is depressing to think we might have to wait 5 years for a heavily diluted version of what we needed (by then) 15 years earlier, but events like Coronavirus and the encroaching importance of environmental issues may keep us occupied.

The left need to regroup quickly and we need to find a way of keeping those excited by Corbyn energised. I suspect the time is ripe for a single issue campaign similar to Brexit/XR, the seeds of which we can plant now, so that in 5 years time, just like Labour, the Tories have little control over the agenda. I know there are a million issues to fix but we need to realise that we got fucked in December by Brexit, an unstoppable force that was decades in the making. There is a strategic template there which shows a path to put the left in power.

If we find that then it is likely the membership will remain energised enough to vote in these NEC elections and carry on campaigning at grassroots level.

So equally importantly for Starmer is how he gets people to give a shit about whatever vision it is (does he even know?) he says he possesses. This isn't a re-run of the 90s where socialism was defeated and third way politics took hold. Third way politics has been massively discredited and shown to be morally bankrupt. People are fleeing to nationalism and anti-establishment populism, and the Left have made a comeback, as was even shown in December. Protectionist policies on the left and right are now popular.

There just isn't a coherent narrative about what's in it for the middle classes to risk their comfortable status quo by going left, while the populist right have the natural advantage of support across the establishment, giving the middle class the sense things won't change for them by staying put. A single issue that appeals to enough of them changes all that. It unlocks the door.

[Johnny Yesno]

Nice.

Yeah, I'm staying. I'm going to keep going to my branch meetings and arguing with the influx of starmtroopers.

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

The last time Labour had control of the agenda, the UK had become a dramatically more liberal place than was represented by the Conservative party. They looked and were out of touch, like yesterday's men. Just like Labour changed their economics, the Tories polished up their social record, by and large reforming to become more tolerant and more in step with the attitudes of the day.

By the late 00s all 3 main parties had become a Liberal party. Liberal economics, liberal social attitudes. While Thatcher's biggest achievement may have been Tony Blair, we shouldn't forget one of Labour's unheralded achievements, possibly as it doesn't bullet-point very well, was to seize the moment, moving the Tories, seemingly permanently, to becoming a socially tolerant one. That is a victory we are still enjoying, just not as consciously as we now take things that were fringe attitudes for granted.

How do we put the welfare and rights of ordinary people back as being the agreed settlement?

[holyzombiejesus]

How do we put the welfare and rights of ordinary people back as being the agreed settlement?

Isn't the response to coronavirus doing a lot of that for us, both in terms of (forced) government reaction and the general population's response?

[peanutbutter]

Forgot to vote in these things altogether with all the shit that was happening the last few weeks along with some personal stuff, suspect I'm not the only one here. Definitely not leaving though.

Not as skeptical of Starmer as some but I kind of feel like the five year run way is gonna grind down whoever is in charge regardless. The focus should be on getting more left leaning MPs more visible. With traditional media fucking them they should all be focusing on having extremely strong online presences, Zarah Sultana seems like a good example.
A huge part of what went wrong here is that RLB was one of the only highly visible options available and even then she felt very secondary to the Corbyn/McDonnell front. I kind of suspect this was Corbyn and McDonnell making a choice to shield other people from absolutely outright cuntish media but it sets a cause up for failure long term.

[Sin Agog]

Leave the Labour Party.  Then join the Labour Party again to get their hopes up.  Then really leave the Labour Party once and for all now that they're optimistic and vulnerable.

[greenman]

If you want a protest cancel your TV licence fee.

[NoSleep]

Did that 10 years ago. They still send me threatening letters.

[TrenterPercenter]

The thing that has really twisted the knife for me is a series of friends, genuinely nice people, repeating without thought the lines fed to them by centrists and centre-right commentariat.  The arguments which have inevitably resulted in them gaslighting.  One my oldest best friend who I don't think i've ever disagreed on anything said to me before election "the problem with the leftwing is it always ends up in nationalism".  This a brilliant feminist and leftwinger herself.

I've always maintained too much was made of Corbyn, he was a well intentioned but flawed individual and we need someone better ultimately, yet, for actually not baying for his blood i've been called all the usual names.  This often for just pointing out that disparities between things said and things reported.

This is always the most damaging thing for me, the people that should know better and the cowards that don't speak up, in the end it's you that becomes the problem.  It is an excellent way to make people feel that them speaking just causes more harm than good.

[Johnny Yesno]

Did that 10 years ago. They still send me threatening letters.

Same. I had one recently that looked like a missed parcel card from Royal Mail. I looked the phone number on the card up on one of those whocalledme? sites and there were a number of posts saying it was TV Licensing. I confirmed this by checking the return address on the card.

[Johnny Yesno]

Isn't the response to coronavirus doing a lot of that for us, both in terms of (forced) government reaction and the general population's response?

Yes, it looks like neoliberalism might be finally dead. Possibly replaced by right wing authoritarianism.

[peanutbutter]

Ian Lavery and Jon Trickett being removed from the shadow cabinet, to make way for the likes of Jess Phillips and Lisa Nandy and being presented as a progressive move cos genders?

[kekse]

nandy as shadow foreign secretary lol

[Buelligan]

Ashworth, Reeves, Nandy in.  Lavery and Trickett out.  Hmm.  Sir Keith obviously went to the same school of bridge-building as that cunt in No10.

[StewartLeehaslethimselfgo]

McDonnell is the only irreplaceable for me but Dodds is probably the next best option. Was great during the elections and is fairly left wing

[pancreas]

Ashworth. This was the cunt that got recorded slagging of the party to his mates.

[Buelligan]

Yes.  He lost Labour votes through that.  The idea that someone as careless or untrustworthy (depending on your POV) as that gets a pat on the head is quite surprising.  I dislike him quite a lot.

[Sony Walkman Prophecies]

It is depressing to think we might have to wait 5 years for a heavily diluted version of what we needed (by then) 15 years earlier, but events like Coronavirus and the encroaching importance of environmental issues may keep us occupied.

Yep. Focus on that. The left's time will come, but it will take a significant crisis first. I just don't believe you're ever going to secure something like the liberal consensus in places like Sweden under ordinary 'peace time' conditions. London is the one of the financial command centres of the world, people travel here from everywhere to make money. We'd have to see a significant shift in that dynamic to get someone like Cornyn in power - a man who I can't recall saying a single word on automation, AI, or similar. People just aren't going to sign up to have the UK turn into a technological and cultural irrelevance, famed only for its public healthcare and generous benefits. I believe it will take a full on ecological crisis before that happens; but that's something we may in fact see in our own life-times.

[phantom_power]

Lavery and Gardiner have tweeted support to Starmer and said that they were graciously relieved of duty, if that means anything. Maybe they are just not ones to rock the boat, or maybe they are going to wait and see what he actually does before criticising him

[phantom_power]

Yep. Focus on that. The left's time will come, but it will take a significant crisis first.

What, like a global pandemic?

[holyzombiejesus]

I'm really pissed off to see Jonathon Ashworth still in a job. Having said that, maybe now isn't the best time to change your health sec.

[Replies From View]

Yep. Focus on that. The left's time will come, but it will take a significant crisis first. I just don't believe you're ever going to secure something like the liberal consensus in places like Sweden under ordinary 'peace time' conditions. London is the one of the financial command centres of the world, people travel here from everywhere to make money. We'd have to see a significant shift in that dynamic to get someone like Cornyn in power - a man who I can't recall saying a single word on automation, AI, or similar. People just aren't going to sign up to have the UK turn into a technological and cultural irrelevance, famed only for its public healthcare and generous benefits. I believe it will take a full on ecological crisis before that happens; but that's something we may in fact see in our own life-times.

I don't think Corbyn ever really gave the impression that he wanted the UK to be consigned to technological and cultural irrelevance, even if he didn't do any speeches on automation, AI or similar (unlike everyone else these days obviously.  Can't move for Keir Starmer going on about artificial intelligence for obvious reasons - he doesn't want the Royal Opera House and Globe Theatre to be shut down).