What if Peter Sellers hadn't died in 1980?

[Brundle-Fly]

I'm sure Sellers would have wanted to pursue more weighty roles after the success of Being There (1980). Almost his equivalent to Coogan's 'Philomena(2013)'? He was royally pissed off when the producers added the Chauncey blooper reel over the end credits. This demonstrated he did have integrity when it mattered to him.

Sellers was contracted to make The Fiendish Plot of Fu Manchu (1980) around the same time so maybe he was hoping it would be a new comedy character franchise to allow him to do more serious stuff? What was Clint Eastwood's old personal tenet?  Something along the lines of "One for them, one for me"? 

[thenoise]

He'd become a Twitter Activist after some snowflake criticises his brownface roles.

[Lisa Jesusandmarychain]

Bet he'd manage to get one more foxy wife in before he carked it.

I was going to ask if he'd ever done any 100% serious dramatic role in his career, but he was Quilty in Kubrick's " Lolita" , wasn't he?  Jolly good in it he was, too. Anyway, he'd probably do more of those sort of things, to the utter exclusion of comedy roles.

[Ballad of Ballard Berkley]

Bet he'd manage to get one more foxy wife in before he carked it.

I was going to ask if he'd ever done any 100% serious dramatic role in his career, but he was Quilty in Kubrick's " Lolita" , wasn't he?  Jolly good in it he was, too. Anyway, he'd probably do more of those sort of things, to the utter exclusion of comedy roles.

He's very good playing a nasty bastard gangster in the early '60s drama Never Let Go. And he delivers a poignant straight performance in the aforementioned - and rather wonderful - The Optimists of Nine Elms.

He's brilliant in Lolita, as you say, but it's not a 100% serious dramatic role. Remember the scene in which he disguises himself as a German psychologist? Pure Sellers comedy, that.

[Satchmo Distel]

The aforementioned  "The Optimists of Nine Elms" was a serious role.

[Lisa Jesusandmarychain]

All bloody right, you two. It's been years since I saw it , but I thought there was a * slightly * comedic element to the way that Sellers played that crotchety old geezer. Anyway, Patricia Brake stole the show from Sellers in that film, with her grand bit of " flustered" acting.

Also, I think there was a film in which Sellers plays a lonely middle aged feller who befriends a young bit of stuff, played by Susannah York or someone. I distinctly remember a scene in which she grazed her heels on her too- tight shoes. I'm fucked if I'm going to try to Google it, but that was played fairly straight, too. I think I prefer seeing him giving those kinds of performances as opposed to farting in lifts and acting the daft amusingly French accented cunt in those Pink Panther films.

[Ballad of Ballard Berkley]

All bloody right, you two. It's been years since I saw it , but I thought there was a * slightly * comedic element to the way that Sellers played that crotchety old geezer. Anyway, Patricia Brake stole the show from Sellers in that film, with her grand bit of " flustered" acting.

Also, I think there was a film in which Sellers plays a lonely middle aged feller who befriends a young bit of stuff, played by Susannah York or someone. I distinctly remember a scene in which she grazed her heels on her too- tight shoes. I'm fucked if I'm going to try to Google it, but that was played fairly straight, too. I think I prefer seeing him giving those kinds of performances as opposed to farting in lifts and acting the daft amusingly French accented cunt in those Pink Panther films.

That's Hoffman, a really strange, nasty little film. Interesting though and, yeah, played pretty much straight by yer man.

[Shaky]

Off topic slightly, but I binged the 70's Panthers recently after not seeing them for years and I was surprised to see how straight Sellers' plays it in Return... (1975) compared to his later ones. Quite a few of the gags are still fucking amazing, my favorite being the hotel thief sequence.

[Lisa Jesusandmarychain]

I've been dustin' down Imdb's entry on Hoffman, and, yes, it does sound like a nasty little film. It's Sinead Cusack, not Susannah York, she plays his secretary, and he blackmails her into spending a weekend with him, rather than befriending her. The last time I watched it was on BBC 2 on a Sunday Evening when I was a child, and when they used to show films like this, ( another example of this kind of film would be that one with Jane Asher messing about with some bloke in an empty swimming pool, or a Ken Russel film about some composer or other ( not Lisztomania  though)). Wonder how that film would stand up to a re- viewing nowadays? I do remember enjoying Sellers' performance in that film , though, quite the contrast to his performance in " The Magic Christian" ( also shown in that coveted BBC 2 Sunday Evening slot).

[Ignatius_S]

He's very good playing a nasty bastard gangster in the early '60s drama Never Let Go. And he delivers a poignant straight performance in the aforementioned - and rather wonderful - The Optimists of Nine Elms.

He's brilliant in Lolita, as you say, but it's not a 100% serious dramatic role. Remember the scene in which he disguises himself as a German psychologist? Pure Sellers comedy, that.

Yes, the Never Let Go performance is a powerful one - Sellers was tremendous. Another (very) serious role was The Blockhouse.

re: Quilty - I would lean to that view. It's an exaggerated performance, but fits the film so well and I feel gives the character a deservedly nightmarish quality. I'm very fond of Only Two Can Play and although it's a comedy, would say that Sellers plays it pretty straight (which is crucial) - it's interesting to compare his performance with the physical quirks that Kenneth Griffith brought to his, I feel.

[Ignatius_S]

I've been dustin' down Imdb's entry on Hoffman, and, yes, it does sound like a nasty little film. It's Sinead Cusack, not Susannah York, she plays his secretary, and he blackmails her into spending a weekend with him, rather than befriending her. The last time I watched it was on BBC 2 on a Sunday Evening when I was a child, and when they used to show films like this, ( another example of this kind of film would be that one with Jane Asher messing about with some bloke in an empty swimming pool, or a Ken Russel film about some composer or other ( not Lisztomania  though)). Wonder how that film would stand up to a re- viewing nowadays? I do remember enjoying Sellers' performance in that film , though, quite the contrast to his performance in " The Magic Christian" ( also shown in that coveted BBC 2 Sunday Evening slot).

Might be interested in this - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_0BIh4HO_F0 - the original TV play for Armchair Theatre with Donald Pleasance and Judy Cornwell.

[Brundle-Fly]

Which rock/pop artist's video do you imagine he would've appeared in? I reckon either Kate Bush reviving characters from Dr Strangelove or playing the drums in a frightwig for his L.A. mate, Ozzy Osbourne's promo. He comes out of retirement to do some elderly narration for a Radiohead album.

[non capisco]

I'm sure Sellers would have wanted to pursue more weighty roles after the success of Being There (1980). Almost his equivalent to Coogan's 'Philomena(2013)'? He was royally pissed off when the producers added the Chauncey blooper reel over the end credits. This demonstrated he did have integrity when it mattered to him.

I'm not surprised. I saw it for the first time a few years ago and was astonished that blooper reel was suddenly there after such a wonderful final shot. Completely kills the mood, equivalent to if someone had put a gag reel at the end of Dreyer's 'Ordet' because 'they'll need cheering up.'

[Ambient Sheep]

...The last time I watched it was on BBC 2 on a Sunday Evening when I was a child, and when they used to show films like this, ( another example of this kind of film would be that one with Jane Asher messing about with some bloke in an empty swimming pool...

That would be Deep End (1970).  They showed it a couple of times last year on Talking Pictures TV.  To my surprise I'd never seen it before, but apparently it had been sort of "lost" and only recovered and restored in the last few years.

The only showing I can find on Genome was indeed on BBC2 (the Screen 2 strand) on a Sunday, 22/05/1977 at 22:05, which given that it was probably a school night (half-term permitting) and I'd've been 12 years old, probably explains why it was new to me.  That was billed in the Radio Times as its first showing on British television; quite possibly its last too, until last year.

Am amused by its Radio Times write-up, which makes it seem far racier than it actually is:

Mike's first job after leaving school is as an attendant at some seedy municipal baths. There he receives a totally different kind of education from Susan, the girl who runs the female section. As he plunges into this ambivalent new world, Mike finds himself quite literally in deep water.

...or a Ken Russel film about some composer or other ( not Lisztomania  though)).

The Music Lovers (1971) about Tchaikovsky, I'd assume, as that's the famous one, but apparently he also did Mahler (1974).

The Music Lovers was shown, always on BBC2, on:
Sunday 27/09/1981 22:30 (as "Glenda Jackson in...")
Thursday 02/08/1984 23:30
Sunday 28/07/1991 22:15 (Moviedrome)
Tuesday 07/12/1993 23:10 (which notes that the screenplay for it was by Melvyn Bragg, the dirty old bollocks!)

Mahler was:
Sunday 08/06/1980 22:45 (BBC2: Film of the Week)
Friday 24/04/1981 22:50 (BBC1: The Late Film)

Both showings of Mahler say it's a "version slightly adapted for TV by the director."  I can't find out what this "adaptation" might be.


I've just discovered he did a whole bunch of b/w films for TV in the 1960s covering various composers: Elgar (1962), Bartok (1964), The Debussy Film (1965), Don't Shoot the Composer (1966) (a documentary about the then-still-living Georges Delerue) and Song of Summer (1968) about Delius, which he believed to be the best film he ever made.

Forgive me if I don't run them all through Genome, especially as it's almost certainly The Music Lovers that you're thinking of.

...quite the contrast to [Sellers'] performance in " The Magic Christian" ( also shown in that coveted BBC 2 Sunday Evening slot).

Yup, on Sunday 30/09/1979 23:25 (that's a late start for a school night in a largely pre-VCR world!) as a "Film of the Week".  Not shown again until Monday 29/08/2005 22:00 as part of Paul Merton's Perfect Night In.

Funnily enough, it's on Talking Pictures TV tomorrow (Thursday 16th April 2020) at 10pm; its second and last-for-now showing after last Saturday 11th at 9pm.  Been meaning to post in the TPTV thread about it.

[Ignatius_S]

...I've just discovered he did a whole bunch of b/w films for TV in the 1960s covering various composers: Elgar (1962), Bartok (1964), The Debussy Film (1965), Don't Shoot the Composer (1966) (a documentary about the then-still-living Georges Delerue) and Song of Summer (1968) about Delius, which he believed to be the best film he ever made.

Yup, on Sunday 30/09/1979 23:25 (that's a late start for a school night in a largely pre-VCR world!) as a "Film of the Week".  Not shown again until Monday 29/08/2005 22:00 as part of Paul Merton's Perfect Night In.

Funnily enough, it's on Talking Pictures TV tomorrow (Thursday 16th April 2020) at 10pm; its second and last-for-now showing after last Saturday 11th at 9pm.  Been meaning to post in the TPTV thread about it.

Those composer films were part of the Monitor documentaries Russel made and was the work that made him a name. Although BBC America did a compilation of several of the films quite a while ago, there was no release over here - the BFI did do a release that had three of the composer documentaries, but the amount of work that's been commercially available in the UK is shameful.

re: The Magic Christian, there's a thread in the Film forum.

[chveik]

That would be Deep End (1970).  They showed it a couple of times last year on Talking Pictures TV.  To my surprise I'd never seen it before, but apparently it had been sort of "lost" and only recovered and restored in the last few years.

are you sure about that? I saw it for the first time ten years ago. (I remember it being a low quality copy though, possibly ripped from a vhs)

anyway it's a good film, Skolimowski's best period was clearly in the UK, with The Shout and Moonlighting.

[Ignatius_S]

are you sure about that? I saw it for the first time ten years ago. (I remember it being a low quality copy though, possibly ripped from a vhs)

anyway it's a good film, Skolimowski's best period was clearly in the UK, with The Shout and Moonlighting.

It got restored a while ago - had a quick look and looks like 2011.

[Autopsy Turvey]

There's a great bit in Bernard Cribbins' autobiography, in which he's unfailingly sweet, polite and jolly about everyone he ever worked with, and contains no rude words or acerbic comments of any kind. Then, talking about Peter Sellers, he says they got on really well and he enjoyed working with him, but adds "this was before he went to Hollywood and became a prick". I nearly dropped the book, it was so jarring.

So possibly work would have dried up a bit. Perhaps he'd have got a cameo in The Nineteenth Hole. By the 90s nobody would work in the same room as him, so Pixar would trap him in a sound booth and he'd have the most lucrative phase of his career sitting on his own in a sealed cubicle gibbering in hundreds of different voices.

[Jake Thingray]

I've just discovered he did a whole bunch of b/w films for TV in the 1960s covering various composers: Elgar (1962), Bartok (1964), The Debussy Film (1965), Don't Shoot the Composer (1966) (a documentary about the then-still-living Georges Delerue) and Song of Summer (1968) about Delius,

I don't even like Russell's work particularly but really, thought everyone knew that. As Ignatius S has pointed out, it was what his initial reputation came from.

[Phil_A]

It's possible that he'd find god, and become a second Harry Secombe.

Ironically, he did play a trendy young liberal vicar in the Boulting Brothers' Heavens Above! (1963). A good little film which shows Sellers could pull of a convincing straight role when he put his mind to it.

[Ballad of Ballard Berkley]

I'm sure Sellers would have wanted to pursue more weighty roles after the success of Being There (1980). Almost his equivalent to Coogan's 'Philomena(2013)'? He was royally pissed off when the producers added the Chauncey blooper reel over the end credits. This demonstrated he did have integrity when it mattered to him.

Isn't there a version of Being There without the blooper reel at the end? Or maybe that's just wishful thinking, as its inclusion is staggeringly ill-judged. As non capisco says, the film ends on such a beautiful, poetic note, then suddenly we're watching It'll Be Alright on the Night. It breaks the spell completely.

But yeah, I think it's fair to assume that Sellers would've pursued more serious roles while making the occasional flat-out comedy.

By the 90s nobody would work in the same room as him, so Pixar would trap him in a sound booth and he'd have the most lucrative phase of his career sitting on his own in a sealed cubicle gibbering in hundreds of different voices.

God yes, of course. Sellers could've voiced an entire animated film on his own. A poignant scenario.

[derek stitt]

There's a great bit in Bernard Cribbins' autobiography, in which he's unfailingly sweet, polite and jolly about everyone he ever worked with, and contains no rude words or acerbic comments of any kind. Then, talking about Peter Sellers, he says they got on really well and he enjoyed working with him, but adds "this was before he went to Hollywood and became a prick". I nearly dropped the book, it was so jarring.

So possibly work would have dried up a bit. Perhaps he'd have got a cameo in The Nineteenth Hole. By the 90s nobody would work in the same room as him, so Pixar would trap him in a sound booth and he'd have the most lucrative phase of his career sitting on his own in a sealed cubicle gibbering in hundreds of different voices.

What you lay out is a very plausible scenario.

I wonder if Sellers did any funny voices when he contacted Michael Bentine from the other realm?

Just seen above, sorry.

[Ballad of Ballard Berkley]

I'm not sure I did either.  There's a bit where he says something like "readers will notice that I have abandoned any chronological biography of Sellers" in favour of [Lewis'] increasingly baroque and claustrophobic psychological theories.

There's also a bit in which Lewis opines that Sellers was 'probably' gay, before moving on and never mentioning it again. Maybe he was, maybe he was bisexual, I don't know, but Lewis presents no evidence to back this theory up. He just tosses it in there as another example of how depraved Sellers was, which tells you a lot about the author's mindset. "Not only was he a cunt, he was probably a GAY cunt too!"

Horrible book.

[Jake Thingray]

A fellow I used to know, around the time of the HBO biopic with Geoffrey Rush, opined that a more accurate adaptation would have been Lewis shouting "Me! Me! Me!" into a camcorder for three hours

[Ballad of Ballard Berkley]

A fellow I used to know, around the time of the HBO biopic with Geoffrey Rush, opined that a more accurate adaptation would have been Lewis shouting "Me! Me! Me!" into a camcorder for three hours

Exactly.

[Ballad of Ballard Berkley]

Off topic slightly, but I binged the 70's Panthers recently after not seeing them for years and I was surprised to see how straight Sellers' plays it in Return... (1975) compared to his later ones. Quite a few of the gags are still fucking amazing, my favorite being the hotel thief sequence.

Watching an unwell Sellers as Clouseau in Strikes Again and Revenge is really depressing. Those films have their moments - Sellers was always funny whenever inspiration struck - but his acting is so broad and cartoonish. Nothing like the Clouseau from the earlier films, when Sellers played him as an endearing buffoon desperately trying to maintain his dignity*. The Clouseau of The Pink Panther, A Shot in the Dark and Return thought he was a romantic hero in a serious crime drama, Sellers never tipped a wink to the audience.

Even when he disguises himself as the international playboy Guy Gadbois in Return, it still works as an extension of the way Clouseau views himself. The Clouseau from those early films would never piss about disguised as a Norwegian sailor with an inflatable parrot on his shoulder, that would be beneath him.

* And that stupid comedy French accent he puts on in the later films. Christ. His original accent for Clouseau was nothing like that, it was just Sellers adopting the subtle accent of an actual French man speaking English.

[Shaky]

Yeah, completely agree with all that. In Return, Sellers' still gave somewhat of a shit and it shows, Plummer is great as the recast Phantom and - crucially - there's an actual plot and character consistency to hang some excellent jokes on. It's all so much better than my favourite-as-a-kiddie Strikes Back. This time, aside from the magnificent interrogation scene, I found it a real slog to sit through. I'd also forgotten that Clouseau briefly reuses the Gadbois pseudonym in the latter film - another sign of diminishing returns!

[Brundle-Fly]

I've often wondered how moments in the later Clouseau films fared in France. The 'strange pronunciation of English words in a silly Gallic accent' gag, subtitled or dubbed, must have been either baffling or really irksome for a French audience.

[Lisa Jesusandmarychain]

They loved " 'Allo ' Allo" in France  apparently. When they dubbed Arthur Bostrom's " English Bloke  Trying To  Do  French Accent, But Ends Up Saying 'Pissing instead of ' Passing ' And Other Hilarious Stuff" character, they just gave him a gormless sounding voice, so he was the Trigger character of the show.

[Fabian Thomsett]

A lot of nothing-y 80s Hollywood comedies then a career revival after playing a cantankerous grandad in a Wes Anderson film.

And he would have played the Jack Nicholson part in Anger Management.