What if Peter Sellers hadn't died in 1980?

[Bad Ambassador]

Given that Sellers was on borrowed time by 1980, might it not be more realistic to speculate on his legacy if he had died in 1964?

[Fr.Bigley]

Contentious though it may be, I never took to sellers. As well as being a middle of the road actor he was a twat of a person. He's the John Lennon of comedy. Peter cook on the other hand was a real tragedy. even on a bad day, put cook and sellers toe to toe and sellers would not have stood a chance intellectually and would probably have gone home to blame his wife for his inadequacies.

[Ballad of Ballard Berkley]

Contentious though it may be, I never took to sellers. As well as being a middle of the road actor he was a twat of a person. He's the John Lennon of comedy. Peter cook on the other hand was a real tragedy. even on a bad day, put cook and sellers toe to toe and sellers would not have stood a chance intellectually and would probably have gone home to blame his wife for his inadequacies.

While I agree that he was a twat, describing him as a middle-of-the-road actor is way off the mark. Do you mean he was a bland and ordinary actor? Nothing could be further from the truth. I've never heard Sellers described in that way before, it doesn't make much sense to me.

As for putting Sellers and Cook toe to toe, well they were friends weren't they? Or on friendly terms anyway. Cook had a much sharper comic mind, there was no one to touch him in that regard, but Sellers was by far the better actor. And he was no slouch at the old improvising either.

[Ballad of Ballard Berkley]

I enjoyed it, but I did sort of agree with the fifteen-years-of-nothing-great assessment. Not right to state it on-screen so categorically, I suppose, but I looked at his filmography later and he really didn't do anything that was critically acclaimed during that whole period (obviously the Pink Panther films were a huge popular success). I really enjoy some of those late 60s/early 70s films (I Love You Alice B Toklas, The Magic Christian, There's A Girl In My Soup) but you won't find any film guide giving them four stars.

Yes, to be fair the caption did say that Sellers never again received quite as much widespread critical acclaim until Being There in 1979, but at the same time it did sort of imply that he never received any critical acclaim at all. He received good notices for his early performances as Clouseau, and The Party was generally well-received by critics. Not that many people saw it, be he was praised for his performance in Nine Elms too.

Maybe the hipster grandson was used to bring Sellers up to date in some way, rather than just having these very old people talking about his legacy again (I'm trying to see a reason here! I didn't think he helped the doc at all).

Yes, that's possible.

What did you make of the Lynne Frederick story? They made her out to be a monster but her wiki would have you believe she was just trying to do the right thing, faced with all kinds of personal and legal challenges (as you might expect).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lynne_Frederick

It was a bit of a one-sided hatchet job, I thought. She was portrayed as an out and out gold digger, and while there may be some truth to that, a more nuanced take on her relationship with Sellers wouldn't have gone amiss. It just felt a bit unsavoury.

[Ballad of Ballard Berkley]

I have to stand up for the inclusion of Sellers' grandson. I thought his bits didn't detract, and it was nice to see another generation represented even if he didn't have that much to say until the end. My memory of previous docs is that Michael Sellers loomed fairly large so it was sort of fitting to see Michael's son and get even a whiff of the passage of time. Gave things some framing even if we didn't learn much new stuff there.

Yeah, I didn't object to the inclusion of the grandson at all, it's just that - through no fault of his own - he didn't bring much to the table. It was quite moving, though, ending the programme with him talking about how he cried when he first watched Being There.

Overall, it was a decent documentary but I find Sellers' story more and more depressing the older I get. Britt Ekland came across really well, as always.

It's a thoroughly depressing story. But I agree, considering how much of a shit he was to her, Ekland managed to get that across without saying anything which might upset his surviving family members. She seems like a nice person.

[Satchmo Distel]

Sellers told Roger Ebert he had "absolutely no personality at all. I am a chameleon. When I am not playing a role, I am nobody.''

https://www.rogerebert.com/reviews/great-movie-being-there-1979

[Ballad of Ballard Berkley]

Sellers said that all the time in interviews (there's a clip of him saying it in the recent documentary).

I think it was a line he trotted out to make himself sound more interesting and enigmatic, a piece of self-mythologisation. Despite the fact that he often behaved like a massive arsehole, he had friends and family members who liked and loved him. So of course he had a personality. It wasn't always a very nice personality, but you only have to watch pretty much any interview with him to see that he was naturally funny and charming. You can see why people warmed to him and sometimes ever forgave him after one of his mad tantrums.

He wasn't very good at being a human being, but he wasn't a blank slate.

[the science eel]

He comes across as fairly likeable in the Parkinson interview (the one where he does 'When I'm Cleaning Windows') but tellingly, perhaps, he doesn't make much eye-contact with MP.

[Ballad of Ballard Berkley]

He comes across as fairly likeable in the Parkinson interview (the one where he does 'When I'm Cleaning Windows') but tellingly, perhaps, he doesn't make much eye-contact with MP.

Fantastic double denim and Converse combo too.

I know you'll know this, but Sellers had to be cajoled into doing that interview. He was very nervous beforehand and, as you say, he seems quite nervous during it too, but in the end he told some funny stories, played a sweet little Formby song, and generally entertained the audience.

[the science eel]

Yeah.

And coyly referred to an affair with Sophia Loren which hadn't actually happened!

[Ballad of Ballard Berkley]

Yeah.

And coyly referred to an affair with Sophia Loren which hadn't actually happened!

That was so uncomfortable. I think he was still convinced that they actually did have an affair. Or he wanted people to think they had. Impossible to tell!

[Shaky]

Yeah, that, "I have no personality," line always rankles with me. It was particularly banded around when the Life and Death movie came out in 2004 and I'd think, "No, he was a cunt. Clearly."

That was so uncomfortable. I think he was still convinced that they actually did have an affair. Or he wanted people to think they had. Impossible to tell!

To me, it seemed more like the latter. Like a naughty little boy who loves the attention while feigning coyness. Sellers' general lucidity during the Parky interview is quite telling, especially since it took place smack bang in the middle of his famously deranged 70's period. I think he could switch it on and off more than people realised.

[Ballad of Ballard Berkley]

Yeah, Sellers was a manipulative bastard. He'd usually feign innocence whenever he fucked up, in the hope that people would forgive him. Sometimes they did. He was, after all, the consummate character actor.

That Parky interview is a good example of how funny and charming he could be whenever he wasn't, y'know, being a shit.

[steveh]

That doc filled in a few gaps in my knowledge but I thought that The Undiscovered Peter Sellers documentary for Sky Arts that Victor Lewis Smith and Paul Sparks did a couple of years back was better at showing what he was like as a person.

The recent documentary on Ghost in the Noonday Sun sounds interesting but having toured a few festivals doesn't seem to have yet had a release.

[Ballad of Ballard Berkley]

That doc filled in a few gaps in my knowledge but I thought that The Undiscovered Peter Sellers documentary for Sky Arts that Victor Lewis Smith and Paul Sparks did a couple of years back was better at showing what he was like as a person.

Oh my, I wasn't aware of that! Ta, I'll see if I can track it down.

The recent documentary on Ghost in the Noonday Sun sounds interesting but having toured a few festivals doesn't seem to have yet had a release.

I was wondering about that. It sounds like the sort of thing that might crop up on BBC Four one day.

[the science eel]

Oh my, I wasn't aware of that! Ta, I'll see if I can track it down.

He did one on Kenneth Williams and one on Tony Hancock too. All three are excellent.

[the science eel]

Here you go:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xUlMi8_cKQA

[Ballad of Ballard Berkley]

Here you go:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xUlMi8_cKQA

Thank you!!

[Shaky]

I've just watched Being There again for the first time since having kids and fucking hell, Sellers really nails it. I always loved the film but there are little nuances there I see in my own children. Maybe I'm wishing them into the movie?

[Billybob]

Oh my, I wasn't aware of that! Ta, I'll see if I can track it down.

I was wondering about that. It sounds like the sort of thing that might crop up on BBC Four one day.

The Ghost of Peter Sellers it's available to steam shortly
https://geni.us/PeterSellers_Cinema

[Ambient Sheep]

Might be worth mentioning that the Peter Sellers edition of the rather good series Comedy Legends, presented by Barry Cryer, is on Talking Pictures Sky Arts tonight (Wed 13th May) at 11pm.

It might be worth checking in at 10pm though, for two reasons:

1. At 10pm they're showing the Billy Connolly edition.

2. Since so far they've been showing them in order, but BC is billed as S02E12 and PS is billed as S02E11, it's just possible that they might show them the other way round.  However this is probably just me overthinking again.

If it's like the other editions I've seen, don't expect TOO much in the way of great insights (although don't expect none); do expect lots of clips and funny anecdotes.  Comfort television.

[poodlefaker]

Wow, everybody loooved Lynn Frederick, right? So many kind words.

[Phil_A]

Also on youtube, the three part Arena special The Peter Sellers Story from 1995.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=riFzPaR8P9o
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=prfquKjQwZg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZaHz51srEA

[Head Gardener]

excellent, thanks for that

[biniput]

For psychology the link provided is either of the helpful or cod variety.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_f8M8hL-OWA

It is the "Will The Real Peter Sellers Please Stand Up".

[millwall32]

Fascinating thread.
I think of two factors that would have an effect.
1) He'd have been 65 by the end of the 1980's and 75 by the end of the 90's. So, even though the name is mentioned a lot in this thread,  most Bill Murray style lead roles would have been out of his range. ( He couldn't be the lead in a semi-action based comedy like Ghostbusters and certainly wouldn't be a romantic lead as in Groundhog Day.)
2) The British film industry was in a parlous state for most of the 1980's, but there were a lot of quirky films being made by the likes of Handmade. I can see him popping up as older eccentrics in stuff like Time Bandits and A Private Function (If the money was right.) But my guess would be he'd be working more in America, mostly cameos. Oh, and a lot more adverts.

One other factor- unlike Milligan, Cleese, Ackroyd, Murray etc, Sellers didn't write. So he would be at the mercy of there being decent material available.

[millwall32]

Which rock/pop artist's video do you imagine he would've appeared in? I reckon either Kate Bush reviving characters from Dr Strangelove or playing the drums in a frightwig for his L.A. mate, Ozzy Osbourne's promo. He comes out of retirement to do some elderly narration for a Radiohead album.

That I would agree with: he would almost certainly have done a few music videos.

[Hank_Kingsley]

He would have played Fisher Stevens' character in the Short Circuit films and elevated them enormously.

[Bennett Brauer]

He'd have been in Denville Hall and everyone would have been told not make eye contact with him.

[millwall32]

Was toying with saying this earlier in the thread, when the possibility of Sellers voting for Brexit or supporting the Tories was mentioned, which due to his being another major British film star got me thinking of Michael bleedin' Caine, so to speed things up -- Dirty Rotten Scoundrels would have been more bearable (to me, anyway) with Sellers in Caine's role.

That's a very good shout. Made in 1988 so he would've been about the right age too.