Dune (2020)

[SweetPomPom]

The BH/KJA books are awful in every way.

As much as I'd love to see Messiah, it's incredibly bleak. Children isn't exactly a barrel of laughs either. Can't imagine either on the big screen.
Using Heretics and Chapter House would be a good start for the BG series though.

[Alberon]

Maybe skip those and go to the bonkers God Emperor novel?

[sevendaughters]

film is bad af.

more later.

[Blumf]

If they do end up making Dune 2, do you think they'll then follow it up with a film of Command & Conquer?

Two and a half hours of Tim Curry saying 'SPACE!'

[evilcommiedictator]

Going slightly off-topic, has anyone read the Brian Herbert/Kevin J Anderson books?  Any cop?

I went on a binge to read the full Dune story (excluding side stories like House: Too Dull To Include and The Great Schools of Dune (no by no means are we just making money at this point)).

There's three books that setup The Butlerian Jihad, Spacetravel and The Sisterhood, the first two are entertaining to read but not great, no major things to think about, by the third I was getting bored and the setup for Atredies/Harkonnen was just fucking awful. Nothing too complicated but Kevin J Anderson does write YA scifi, and this is basically it, with the framing of "we need to setup these concepts, let's do it simply and easily"

I did read the middle books as part of this, Paul of Dune and The Winds of Dune, but I remember literally nothing about them, that's how good they are.

To be honest, I found Heretics and Chapterhouse overly convoluted, but they do lead into the final two books, and there's nothing really that redeems the final two or actually makes sense with setup, fortelling, or the payoff of the Idaho Gholas, Honoured Matres or the Bene Tleilax.

Spoiler alert

Pretty much every main character from the prior books is revived as a Ghola

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and reading the first three books earlier is kinda required as

Spoiler alert

Face Dancers are how serving a AI computer from the first three book, the Ominus

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. There is also

Spoiler alert

a bad version of Ghola Paul, who of course is being trained by Ghola Baron Vladimir

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.

But luckily,

Spoiler alert

The lady who invented space travel became a melange space god entity and magics the evil computer away at the end

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, and

Spoiler alert

the curious computer AI hits the Face Dancer self destruct button

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and negotiates with

Spoiler alert

Duncan, who is of course the final Kwisatz Haderach

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, and they agree to peace, and

Spoiler alert

bring worms back to Dune

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.

It just gets so incredibly stupid and convoluted, like 105 different ideas about what to do from Dad's notebook all thrown together at once without even thinking about a coherent and non-maguffin story

[sevendaughters]

anyway what a painfully dull and actually not very good to look at piece of dull neofascist shit. i know Herbert is trying to skewer the whole superhero aspect of sci-fi but this is that is overly desperate to provide scaffolding for the status quo, only with intellectual property that mainstream consumernerds don't know. possibly because Star Wars and Game of Thrones have regurgitated aspects of the original text - or just possibly because this region of obscenely wealthy cinema is artistically and morally bankrupt - i felt like i was watching a remix of several things gone by, including cutting actors from scenes in previous works and dropping them in here. anyone comparing this to Lean is a liar and a prostitute and should have their ability to critique professionally revoked.

[Jerzy Bondov]

Lean? This shits all over Lean. How many space ships going BWAAAAAAAAAMMMM in Lean? Fuck all.

[evilcommiedictator]

Why did Denis make really loud background noise over important exposition? I'm having a dream, of a Jihad *sand whirring* knife *sand whirring* granddaddy *sand whirring* future. Also languages where you're trying to figure out if you're missing the subtitles file or not, all throughout the damn film

I'm impressed they got through most of the storytelling at all, and like others, they even could have fit more in, I wouldn't have minded some early botany from Kynes and Leto, some CGI hand burning off during the gom jabbar rather than random images, and getting rid of "slow" shields so you can have cool CGI projectile weapons and artillery, and then for some reason still have lasguns firing randomly for a lucky nuclear explosion.
Maybe a bit more of Jessica? Maybe simplify Yueh and make is more obvious he's trying to help Jessica and Paul?

Finally, have the thing end with Jamis' funeral, that way you can see Paul cry and see he's officially accepted as part of the sietch?
Also don't call Jessica a Sayyadina before it actually happens, cheers Dennis :P.

[Mrs Wogans lemon drizzle]

I think I enjoyed it, im not sure.  It felt a bit too long.


One question I have is when paul is putting his shirt on in the desert, towards the end when it's just him and his mum, his mum stairs at his back, like she wants a piece.  Why is this? 

[The Culture Bunker]

Just got home from seeing. Enjoyable enough without being that gripping - and maybe I'm going deaf as I get older, but there was a fair bit of dialogue I couldn't make out (esp from Paul's mam). Thought yer man playing Paul lacked charisma, as handsome as he is, but Oscar Isaac, Josh Brolin and Jason Momoa picked up the slack.

My wife, who is pretty unfamiliar with sci-fi, said she found it boring and "there seemed to be lots of things happening, without any point to them, and then it just ended".

[Shit Good Nose]

My hearing isn't brilliant (permanent damage in one ear) and I didn't have any problems hearing all the dialogue, and neither did Mrs Nose.  Maybe some cinemas have fucked up the audio settings?

[Mrs Wogans lemon drizzle]

I found the soundtrack really overbearing and intrusive at points, i've just realised it was Hans Zimmer.  Why does he always do this?

[Jerzy Bondov]

I think I enjoyed it, im not sure.  It felt a bit too long.


One question I have is when paul is putting his shirt on in the desert, towards the end when it's just him and his mum, his mum stairs at his back, like she wants a piece.  Why is this?

My friend said this too and I told him he was being a perv but honestly I know what you mean.

[Shit Good Nose]

Isn't there some (or at least suggestion of) incest in the Leto family in one of the later books?

Been so long since I read any of them I don't know what I'm half remembering from them and what the film is planting in my mind as being lifted from the books.

[sevendaughters]

Herbert was really into Freud, Jung, Adler, that lot. Paul helping his mum into her desert suit was like he was gingerly helping her out with her bra.

[Mister Six]

Isn't there some (or at least suggestion of) incest in the Leto family in one of the later books?

Been so long since I read any of them I don't know what I'm half remembering from them and what the film is planting in my mind as being lifted from the books.

In Children of Dune,

Spoiler alert

the Bene Gesserit want to inbreed Paul's twins to produce a new Kwisatz Heiderach[nb]I can't be bothered figuring out if these things are spelled properly or not.[/nb] and at the end of the book, the son sets himself up as an Egyptian-style god emperor, and pretends to marry his sister in order to generate a suitably "different from you plebs" vibe (which seems like a stretch but I guess it works, so...) although she's actually paired up with some other dude behind the scenes

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.

And at the start of Messiah,

Spoiler alert

Paul walks in on his sister, who's practicing fighting naked, and gets a lob-on

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. Plus obviously Baron Harkonnen wants to fuck his nephew. Definitely some vibes in the books, but it never eventuates into actual Game of Thrones-style family gangbanging. You have to turn to Heinlein for that...

[checkoutgirl]

Thought yer man playing Paul lacked charisma, as handsome as he is, but Oscar Isaac, Josh Brolin and Jason Momoa picked up the slack.

Timmy is a very thin drink of water pretty boy. Even Kyle McLachlan looks buff compared to him. I found all the performances quite reserved and a bit odd, except for Xavier Pardem. My favourite character was the Baron but he wasn't in it that much, would have liked more. I noticed Villeneuve has a take 2 minutes to film something when 10 seconds would do approach (something I noticed in Blade Runner too). It takes forever to get going and even then it seems to take forever to stay going.

There's a lot to enjoy and visually it's a feast if somewhat polished. I both appreciate that polished style and sometimes want something more interesting and punchy to look at. Overall I'd give it 6.5/10 but I can't help feeling I've lost something by not seeing it in the cinema and that watching it there would add an extra point or two. This was echoed in the Kermode review who said it was very much something to see on as big a cinema screen as possible with as loud a sound system as possible.

Not sure I agree with the sound comments as I saw the latest James Bond in something called an "isense" screening room and I came out with tinnitus.

[SweetPomPom]

Isn't there some (or at least suggestion of) incest in the Leto family in one of the later books?

Been so long since I read any of them I don't know what I'm half remembering from them and what the film is planting in my mind as being lifted from the books.

One of the treats of the fucked up God Emperor - Leto 2 has been cross-breeding Atreides with each other and with the Duncan's for thousands of years.
Doesn't he marry his sister at the end of Children?

[Shit Good Nose]

Timmy is a very thin drink of water pretty boy. Even Kyle McLachlan looks buff compared to him.

But Paul is supposed to be a weak little forgettable child at the beginning, no?  What with only being 15 and with a weak heart.  That's why no one believes he's the prophesied leader.

[The Culture Bunker]

Timmy is a very thin drink of water pretty boy. Even Kyle McLachlan looks buff compared to him.

It did make the

Spoiler alert

fight at the end something of a stretch, especially as my impression was Paul had no experience in real combat, certainly without using those shields.

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I'm not really that familiar with the books or any other adaptations, so apologies if I missed some bit of info that makes the above scene make more sense.

Re sound - it may well have been the cinema I was in (bog standard Cineworld place), but it really did sound like characters were mumbling under their breath on a couple of occasions. Does seem like it was a bad mix where I was at.

But Paul is supposed to be a weak little forgettable child at the beginning, no?  What with only being 15 and with a weak heart.  That's why no one believes he's the prophesied leader.

I just looked it up, and the age difference between the actors playing Paul and Jessica is 13 years. Does that mean the old man was a bit of a nonce?

[Shit Good Nose]

It did make the

Spoiler alert

fight at the end something of a stretch, especially as my impression was Paul had no experience in real combat, certainly without using those shields.

[close]

I'm not really that familiar with the books or any other adaptations, so apologies if I missed some bit of info that makes the above scene make more sense.

Despite no real combat experience, he's had a lot of training from Gurney, plus the spice has awoken some of his destiny instincts.

[ImmaculateClump]

One question I have is when paul is putting his shirt on in the desert, towards the end when it's just him and his mum, his mum stairs at his back, like she wants a piece.  Why is this?

You might have had a few questions coming out of the Jodorowsky version, but this wouldn't have been one of them :D

[Steve Lampkins]

I very much enjoyed this. It did feel long, especially the last half an hour or so, but I was still lapping it up on a visual and aural level.

I can't help feeling I've lost something by not seeing it in the cinema and that watching it there would add an extra point or two. This was echoed in the Kermode review who said it was very much something to see on as big a cinema screen as possible with as loud a sound system as possible.

I saw it at a decent-sized cinema with a good and loud sound system (although with subtitles in the local language here) -- and I'm still considering popping along to an iMax screening.

Despite no real combat experience, he's had a lot of training from Gurney, plus the spice has awoken some of his destiny instincts.

Gurney was filling in for Paul's usual trainer - Duncan Idaho -- who I think was called out as being one of the reasons the Atreides army was so fierce that they needed the extra troops to fight them.

[The Culture Bunker]

Despite no real combat experience, he's had a lot of training from Gurney, plus the spice has awoken some of his destiny instincts.

Yeah, I get that. I suppose I was thinking he'd use some trickery to win the fight rather than just being better - presumably his opponent was pretty hardened and experienced in fighting from a life in the desert, as well as looking a lot tougher. After all, the Zendaya character easily got the drop on Paul ("I wouldn't let you hurt my friends") in the previous scene.

[checkoutgirl]

but it really did sound like characters were mumbling under their breath on a couple of occasions.

There was stuff I couldn't make out despite a rewind function. I must have watched that line the nun says to the Baron 5 times but eventually gave up. A few more times I'm sure I missed dialogue. The music was just too loud at times. I wasn't mad about the score, I know the director and Zimmer were going for that Egyptian/Eastern promise vibe but I found it a bit annoying. Also when Paul does something and the motif comes in "Ew hueaa heuaa!!" Things that make ya go hmmmm.

[Shit Good Nose]

There was stuff I couldn't make out despite a rewind function. I must have watched that line the nun says to the Baron 5 times but eventually gave up. A few more times I'm sure I missed dialogue. The music was just too loud at times. I wasn't mad about the score, I know the director and Zimmer were going for that Egyptian/Eastern promise vibe but I found it a bit annoying. Also when Paul does something and the motif comes in "Ew hueaa heuaa!!" Things that make ya go hmmmm.

HBO Max or "from your aunt in America/China"?

[checkoutgirl]

But Paul is supposed to be a weak little forgettable child at the beginning, no?

Well they've got that part down pat. Let's see if they can convincingly portray lil' Timmy as a hardcore warrior type who can lead the berzerkers in battle. Hardly beyond movie magic, be interesting to see if they get the sequel confirmed.

[checkoutgirl]

Does that mean the old man was a bit of a nonce?

Isn't he a king or something? Noncing would be part of the job description.

[Mrs Wogans lemon drizzle]

My friend said this too and I told him he was being a perv but honestly I know what you mean.

It did seem a bit out of place, im not sure what it was trying to show us.

[mothman]

Like when Jessica sees Paul after the Reverend Mother's visit I couldn't help thinking "My son, lives!" in my head.

Oh good not just me then.

I loved this. I'm contemplating a second visit. But it won't be an IMAX as I've no idea where the nearest one is to Bristol. Probably where I just was (Telford) for all I know. Never been to an IMAX before but it was worth it. Not many people there though. Maybe a midday Saturday screening was a bit early.

Had difficulties hearing some of the dialogue, especially at the end.

I'm having trouble separating how I think it should look based on reading the book from how I think it should look from seeing the Lynch one way too many times.

I can't remember - is the Shadout Mapes as pointless in the book as she is in both films? She rocks up, luzzes a scimitar at Jessica (to show how the Fremen learn how awesome she is), then gets stabbed. And I'm still unclear why she in particular gets killed (by Yueh I assume). Wrong place at the wrong time?