Dune (2020)

[greenman]

I'm guessing a lot might depend on how its promoted, the Blade Runner, Tron and Ghost in the Shell films I think all made the mistake of assuming much wider audience awareness that actually existed. I wouldn't say that automatically means a lack of interest but audiences need to be draw in rather more rather than having the kind of random imagery you get away with on say a Starwars trailer.

[Lord Mandrake]

I knew quite a few people at the time who couldn't be arsed with "all that elves, dwarves and wizard bollocks" but ended up enjoying all three movies. 
Not saying this is going to reach LOTR level but not sure I'm ready to cast it off as a failure, yet.

Yeah I had no interest but enjoyed them all. Never read any Dune books but I remember the 80's film and thinking what the fuck is this? This is arse. I don't see how you get Millenials or whatever to get into this, same as BR2049. I'm sure it will be a very competent film and likely critical success but I would be cacking it from a financial perspective. Why not take a risk on something original rather than these cloying retreads of past disasters.

[surreal]

Yeah I had no interest but enjoyed them all. Never read any Dune books but I remember the 80's film and thinking what the fuck is this? This is arse. I don't see how you get Millenials or whatever to get into this, same as BR2049. I'm sure it will be a very competent film and likely critical success but I would be cacking it from a financial perspective. Why not take a risk on something original rather than these cloying retreads of past disasters.

I'm halfway through the book now - there is a LOT of inner dialogue (which I think the original movie did as voiceover?), but a lot of potential for good action and spectacular scenes.  If they can bring the story out of the thoughts of the characters and into dialogue and exposition, and put a bit of marketing behind it I think it could do well, give people something to actually want to go and see.  I really hope so as leaving it at half the book would be a shame.

[Shit Good Nose]

The books are a VERY hard slog, particularly when Herbert spends endless pages analysing the meaning behind the utterance of a single simple word, but a decent screen adaptation (or using it more as a jumping off point, which is what Jodorowsky would have done) will, I think, make for something that might draw people in.  But then it is Villeneuve.  I, personally, don't think he's done a single bad film to date (yes, I even like Arrival), but he's one of those directors that's a bit of a critic's darling whilst not having much of an audience pull.  Having said that, I think it's still possible that this might - MIGHT - achieve a similar thing as Peter Jackson's LOTR, as someone said earlier in the thread, but we're back to the Villeneuve "problem".  Jackson is obviously quite a populist mainstream director (even his el cheapo early splatter films and more subdued dramas have typical mainstream cinema hallmarks), whereas Villeneuve's style almost goes out of its way to alienate casual audiences.

Either way and if nothing else, its release and popularity will be a rather interesting one to follow.

[Dropshadow]

The books are a VERY hard slog,

Not true at all. The first book is so good (and easy to read, I think) that it just whizzes by. The second one is very short and, compared to the first, quite boring but still flies by. The third and fourth are almost like the first. It's only the last two that are a bit of a slog, especially the last one.

particularly when Herbert spends endless pages analysing the meaning behind the utterance of a single simple word

I'd say that's only true of the last book in the series, "Chapterhouse".

[Mister Six]

Just reading the first book now, and while it's dense, it's quite an easy read. However, it's very caught up in its characters' heads and starts off with a fuckton of infodumping, so the adaptation is going to have to (as someone else said upthread) translate that into action rather than people pensively looking into the middle distance while their thoughts play in whispery voiceover.

LoTR also had the advantage of a sense of humour and quite likeable characters in the Hobbits, whereas Dune is all about uptight miserygutses frowning and trying to outthink each other (well, the Harkonnens are a bit more active, but they're also horrible incestuous cunts, and laced with homophobic characterisation). Unless they deviate from the text quite a bit I can't see this as anything other than a bomb in waiting.

[samadriel]

edit bug

[Dropshadow]

To make a really good TV or film adaptation of "Dune" all you have to do is resist the urge to explain anything at all. It's a simple story after all - boy & mum losers in a provincial power struggle get adopted by the local barbarians and then proceed to use said barbarians to regain not only their old status but take over the the entire empire too and become Jesus as well. It's just Shakespeare if he was a Klingon writing for some old pulp SF mag (but in a good way). Let the story take care of itself. You can enjoy Richard III without knowing anything about the Wars of the Roses. And if the viewers complain, fuck them. Alas, I still think the whole thing's going to be a disaster.

[Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth]

You haven't heard Shakespeare until you've heard it in the original Klingon.

[Famous Mortimer]

Not true at all. The first book is so good (and easy to read, I think) that it just whizzes by. The second one is very short and, compared to the first, quite boring but still flies by. The third and fourth are almost like the first. It's only the last two that are a bit of a slog, especially the last one.

I'd say that's only true of the last book in the series, "Chapterhouse".

I enjoyed the first one, found the second one to be sort of alright, and hated the third one. Just an awful idea, poorly done. "God Emperor" was miserable. According to my mate who made it through them all, they don't get any better (the ones done by his son and that hack Kevin Sanderson are just well-written fanfiction, I presume).

[Phil_A]

To make a really good TV or film adaptation of "Dune" all you have to do is resist the urge to explain anything at all. It's a simple story after all - boy & mum losers in a provincial power struggle get adopted by the local barbarians and then proceed to use said barbarians to regain not only their old status but take over the the entire empire too and become Jesus as well. It's just Shakespeare if he was a Klingon writing for some old pulp SF mag (but in a good way). Let the story take care of itself. You can enjoy Richard III without knowing anything about the Wars of the Roses. And if the viewers complain, fuck them. Alas, I still think the whole thing's going to be a disaster.

If you strip away all the backstory and weird lore though wouldn't you just be left with a fairly generic hero's journey tale? It's all the bizarre detail in Dune that makes it interesting, surely. Also the reason why it's so hard to adapt.

I enjoyed the first one, found the second one to be sort of alright, and hated the third one. Just an awful idea, poorly done. "God Emperor" was miserable. According to my mate who made it through them all, they don't get any better (the ones done by his son and that hack Kevin Sanderson are just well-written fanfiction, I presume).

I've just started book three, as I understand it God Emperor has Leto Jnr turning into a human sandworm, and later books introduce a race of female sex ninjas. I'm continuing to read them largely on this basis.

[Blumf]

If you strip away all the backstory and weird lore though wouldn't you just be left with a fairly generic hero's journey tale?

The underlying point of the books is to deconstruct the Hero's Journey. Paul is unable (unwilling) to become the hero, instead his mythos is used and twisted by others. And his son has to become a monster, literal and figurative, to achieve their heroic goal.

It's the weird thing about the Lynch version, that it was just a straight forward Hero's Journey. Will be interesting to see if these new films dare to hold true to the books in that regard. That'd be the toughest sell to Hollywood and the masses.

[earl_sleek]

According to my mate who made it through them all, they don't get any better (the ones done by his son and that hack Kevin Sanderson are just well-written fanfiction, I presume).

I wouldn't even say they reach that level (It's Kevin J Anderson btw, not Kevin Sanderson - maybe you're thinking of Brandon Sanderson, who definitely is not a hack), they're not even well-written. Pure cynical money making bullshit.

I enjoy the (Frank-penned) sequels, but I can see why their appeal is much more selective than the first novel. I think God Emperor is better than Children which frankly is a slog, GE at least is appealingly bizarre. (Although also containing some very odd ideas about homosexuality - apparently Frank wasn't keen on the gays.) Messiah makes the deconstruction of Paul's hero status more overt, which pissed off a lot of the fans of the first book who didn't get that was one of the main themes.

[Famous Mortimer]

Oops, I was thinking of that guy as he's written a bunch of tie-in novels for computer games and TV series and suchlike.

[Mister Six]

(Although also containing some very odd ideas about homosexuality - apparently Frank wasn't keen on the gays.)

Screamingly obvious from the start of the first book. The Harkonnen mentat is described as "strangely effeminate" or something similar, and the Duke leers over the bodies of 15-year-old Paul and his own nephew. Quite cunty, really.

[Dropshadow]

If you strip away all the backstory and weird lore though wouldn't you just be left with a fairly generic hero's journey tale? It's all the bizarre detail in Dune that makes it interesting, surely. Also the reason why it's so hard to adapt.

It's so hard to adapt because the "backstory" and "weird lore" gets in the way of telling the real story, even if it's only a "fairly generic hero's journey tale". All the best tales are.  Lynch got bogged down by it all, fatally, and I think Jodorowsky's version would have been just as bad, if a bit more stylish. The TV series' were better, in my opinion, because they just got on with it and used their limited budgets well.

I've just started book three, as I understand it God Emperor has Leto Jnr turning into a human sandworm, and later books introduce a race of female sex ninjas. I'm continuing to read them largely on this basis.

They're descendants of the Bene Gesserit who dispersed into deep space as part of the God Emperor's "Golden Path" which is an essential part of the entire series. I never liked them much. I prefer the Tleilaxu culture who become the main antagonists in the latter books. Fascinating people.

[Lewman]

I see someone recorded the teaser of the trailer -

https://streamable.com/ayfdvb

[Shit Good Nose]

I see someone recorded the teaser of the trailer -

https://streamable.com/ayfdvb

I personally thought that looked pretty fucking good, despite being one of those eye-rolling trailers for a trailer.

[Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth]

Going by the typeface used for the title, people might think the film is named after Jason Momoa's character.

[Puce Moment]

I personally thought that looked pretty fucking good, despite being one of those eye-rolling trailers for a trailer.

Going to give it the benefit of the doubt because I just watched two Suspiria trailers - one was plops, the other magnificent. BR 2049 is the only Villenueve film I like, but as long as they don't have too much Chalemet on the screen it should be enjoyable enough. Harkonnen looks intruiging - probably my favourite thing from the Lynch adaptation.

It would be nice for people to stop calling it a remake (always seems to happen with multiple adaptations).

Duncan Idaho though lol

[Dex Sawash]

the typeface used for the title,

Can't wait to check out this dunc

[samadriel]

I see someone recorded the teaser of the trailer -

https://streamable.com/ayfdvb

That looks fucking sweet.  Why is Baron Harkonnen having a mud bath?

[earl_sleek]

He has a stressful job.

[greenman]

I see someone recorded the teaser of the trailer -

https://streamable.com/ayfdvb

Still doesn't give us much of a look at the wider setting by the opening Gom Jabbar scene does seem quite close to Lynch in terms of style/atmosphere

[Blumf]

I'd think any competent director would do the Gom Jabbar scene fairly similar, there's not much flex in the setup. The trick is whether they can create the tension well.

[checkoutgirl]

It would be nice for people to stop calling it a remake

Would be nice if anyone gave a shite. What would be the right word? Do-over? The nuance being that a remake is from something that originated as a film rather than a book? I don't think most people are bothered by that type of specific terminology.

Excited by this film. 2049 was great. Liked Sicario and Prisoners. Hated Arrival. I think after 2049 he's the perfect guy to take on Dune and if there's another Alien installment he'd be the right choice too. Dune is notorious after Lynch's attempt and Jodorofsky and all that but if anyone can pull it off it's Denis.

[Puce Moment]

Would be nice if anyone gave a shite. What would be the right word? Do-over? The nuance being that a remake is from something that originated as a film rather than a book? I don't think most people are bothered by that type of specific terminology.

Well, I guess for me the use of 'remake' is almost always wrong, and used by fans of an original film to discredit a later adaptation as if that first adaptation has some kind of cultural propriety over the source (which is sometimes a book).

[surreal]

I'd think any competent director would do the Gom Jabbar scene fairly similar, there's not much flex in the setup. The trick is whether they can create the tension well.

Couple of book spoilers:
Yeah, I think the key dramatics in the first part will be how they handle

Spoiler alert

building up Duke Leto, especially played by an actor like Oscar Isaac who will be key to the marketing, only to kill him off, and then presumably Paul disappearing in the desert - with a second movie being all about the resistance with the Fremen building up to the conflict at the end.

[close]

EDIT: Also I think they'll probably try to move Jessica into kind of a Princess Leia type role, give a chance to show more of her Bene Gesserit training

[Blumf]

Was that the plan? Splitting the first book into two parts?

[greenman]

I'd think any competent director would do the Gom Jabbar scene fairly similar, there's not much flex in the setup. The trick is whether they can create the tension well.

I wouldn't say the text automatically gives the impression of looking the way both scenes do, in that respect I think Lynch's film did have a significant impact on how people visualise the story.