Main Menu

Tip jar

If you like CaB and wish to support it, you can use PayPal or KoFi. Thank you, and I hope you continue to enjoy the site - Neil.

Buy Me a Coffee at ko-fi.com

Support CaB

Recent

Welcome to Cook'd and Bomb'd. Please login or sign up.

March 28, 2024, 03:31:50 PM

Login with username, password and session length

VE Day 75!

Started by chocolate teapot, May 01, 2020, 05:47:08 PM

Previous topic - Next topic
Quote from: Armin Meiwes on May 14, 2020, 11:45:29 PM
I don't think having a day to celebrate us winning the war is all that helpful in terms of remembering the horrors of it, if we really want to make sure we never forget we should make sure it is taught to kids at school and in terms of the actual reality of war is and the suffering it causes and definitely not any ideas of glory and Britain standing alone and all that bollocks. I remember when I was a kid we learnt loads about the horrors of trench warfare and shell shock and how so many were sent to their deaths by their lords and masters, for nothing. Don't know if that still taught but I hope so.

You've completely ignored everything I've said to you and persisted with your The Sun front page hyperbolic line of ''argument''. Commemoration I said, celebration you continually go back to. Scones and tea I said not Glorious Britain, BUT at the very least we managed to preserve our democracy so you can say or do (within the law) anything you want, including the fact WW2 never happened   

Armin Meiwes

Quote from: MinnieTimperley on May 15, 2020, 10:51:47 AM
You've completely ignored everything I've said to you and persisted with your The Sun front page hyperbolic line of ''argument''. Commemoration I said, celebration you continually go back to. Scones and tea I said not Glorious Britain, BUT at the very least we managed to preserve our democracy so you can say or do (within the law) anything you want, including the fact WW2 never happened   

What exactly do you disagree with on what I said?

Quote from: Armin Meiwes on May 15, 2020, 11:21:17 AM
What exactly do you disagree with on what I said?

I didn't say I disagree I said you are ignoring what I'm saying and forging a repost based on The Sun front page soundbites

Dex Sawash



Armin Meiwes

Quote from: MinnieTimperley on May 15, 2020, 11:26:49 AM
I didn't say I disagree I said you are ignoring what I'm saying and forging a repost based on The Sun front page soundbites

Im not ignoring it - you said that we are in danger of forgetting our past if we dont commemorate it but my point really is that we are in absolutely no danger of forgetting ww2, at this point it is probably the most integral national mythos we have. The more important point is not making sure we note the date its about whether we want to remember it in a meaningful way thats centred around doing everything possible to stop things like that happening again. After WW1 the victorious powers revelled in the victory and doubled down on the punishment and that led directly to WW2. The lesson was learnt (at least within europe, of course starting wars in other regions is another matter) so that after WW2 the victorious powers realised the way to stop this happening again was through european unity and working together, so whilst you bristled at my use of the B word i would say Brexit is directly relevant to all this because the nationalist and chauvinist fervour stoked up by Brexit shows that things like VE day commemorations/celebrations mean jack shit and are only an excuse for Britain to pump itself up NOT to commemorate 20 million russian dead. If you want to genuinely commemorate and pay tribute to 20 million russian dead in a meaningful way its clear that that is not through commemoration of victory day.

Quote from: Armin Meiwes on May 15, 2020, 03:22:37 PM
Im not ignoring it - you said that we are in danger of forgetting our past if we dont commemorate it but my point really is that we are in absolutely no danger of forgetting ww2, at this point it is probably the most integral national mythos we have. The more important point is not making sure we note the date its about whether we want to remember it in a meaningful way thats centred around doing everything possible to stop things like that happening again. After WW1 the victorious powers revelled in the victory and doubled down on the punishment and that led directly to WW2. The lesson was learnt (at least within europe, of course starting wars in other regions is another matter) so that after WW2 the victorious powers realised the way to stop this happening again was through european unity and working together, so whilst you bristled at my use of the B word i would say Brexit is directly relevant to all this because the nationalist and chauvinist fervour stoked up by Brexit shows that things like VE day commemorations/celebrations mean jack shit and are only an excuse for Britain to pump itself up NOT to commemorate 20 million russian dead. If you want to genuinely commemorate and pay tribute to 20 million russian dead in a meaningful way its clear that that is not through commemoration of victory day.

Yeah you said that and I now actually DO disagree. There are reasons VE day is a national holiday in France and Russia, none of these have ever disrupted europe or been seen as pumping themselves up - just commemorating the end of 6 years of horrible war. Seems your particular grudge is that the British do it too and to be fair to us we don't even mark it with a national holiday normally, maybe that is your problem this year, other years you probably don't even know the significance of the date, as you shuffle about shouting about Brexit

Armin Meiwes

Lol calm down son! I didn't say you weren't allowed to commemorate VE day any way you want, be my guest! France would obviously commemorate it in something of a different way since they were initially defeated and then only liberated by other countries so it's harder to turn it in to an excuse to play billy big bollocks like we obviously do. I know VE day isn't generally marked every year here but same basically holds for rememberance day. Although I'm old enough to remember before it had been fully jumped on by petty nationalists and political opportunists, not coincidentally that was before the people that actually fought and survived those wars, especially the first, had pretty much all died. As for brexit, you might not like it but brexit is the defining political event of the last 20 years and is absolutely rooted in the same myth making and fantasy world nationalism that all the bombastic war celebrations are so they are intrinsically linked, brexit didn't happen in a vacuum.

Quote from: Armin Meiwes on May 15, 2020, 04:19:01 PM
Lol calm down son! I didn't say you weren't allowed to commemorate VE day any way you want, be my guest! France would obviously commemorate it in something of a different way since they were initially defeated and then only liberated by other countries so it's harder to turn it in to an excuse to play billy big bollocks like we obviously do. I know VE day isn't generally marked every year here but same basically holds for rememberance day. Although I'm old enough to remember before it had been fully jumped on by petty nationalists and political opportunists, not coincidentally that was before the people that actually fought and survived those wars, especially the first, had pretty much all died. As for brexit, you might not like it but brexit is the defining political event of the last 20 years and is absolutely rooted in the same myth making and fantasy world nationalism that all the bombastic war celebrations are so they are intrinsically linked, brexit didn't happen in a vacuum.

Oh God

kittens

what brought you to this forum, minnie?

Quote from: MinnieTimperley on May 15, 2020, 04:25:39 PM
Oh God

Incidentally I agree with the brexit thing being politically massive and believe it or not I disagree with the outcome. I do not however allow it to colour my  every life choice.

Quote from: MinnieTimperley on May 15, 2020, 04:37:59 PM
Incidentally I agree with the brexit thing being politically massive and believe it or not I disagree with the outcome. I do not however allow it to colour my  every life choice.

Scintillating discourse and debate. Bounce ideas around and question the "Mean" in a six sigma sense

Sorry that to kittens. Haven't got the hang of this yet.

Armin Meiwes

But this isn't letting it colour my every life choice and yes some people probably do insert it in places where it has little relevance (ie your FBPE lot) but you can't get much more relevant to brexit than talking about Britain's attitude to its recent history and it's view of itself.