Poker (the card game)

[Puce Moment]

Keep learning the game though cacciaguida, with a bit more experience you'll be able to keep up with these conversations. It's great to have newbies beginners like yourself involved!

You're nice.

[Bence Fekete]

When my health took a turn four years ago I decided I needed some bullet-proof way of making money even when I was sick, so I thought, ah, I've always wondered if I was any good at that poker.

The answer to that question was no, no I'm definitely not - or certainly not good enough yet at least.  It seems that these days you need to be pretty damn serious/dedicated to go from zero to hero (+ a little natural talent, some people do just click with it, bastards) and that's also assuming you get wise advice early on with what to study.

But still, I was in love with the idea and persisted by starting to casually do all the things you're supposed to do: get tracking software to record all your hands; play a lot; post hands on a forum (2+2) and learn to eat criticism for breakfast; and combine all that with unshakeable bankroll management (i.e. only ever playing stakes you can afford, accounting for variance).

Soooo that was the genesis of where I am today. I've made a pinch over 2k so far just grinding micros, mainly on Stars. Currently a Sky 10nl grinder who could probably play higher but as I'm learning to be good (and enjoy playing)  - not necessarily climb the stakes as quickly as possible - I've consistently spent my winnings (bankroll) on more poker books and software. I even have PioSolver now which is one of those expensive gto 'solvers' and, yes, fuck me, even though it cost £250[nb]I did spend the rest of my roll on marijuana and psychedelics in my defence.[/nb], it has increased my understanding and enjoyment of the game immensely.

(Everyone says don't bother with GTO (Game Theory Optimal) until you're crushing midstakes. That's complete bollocks. The game is the same game at 2NL as it is at 500NL; you just adjust to different players and rake. Which is the beauty of it really.)

I have ambitions to take it further but it's second fiddle to a career obviously. A brilliant, unfurling, infuriating game. Tommy Angelo calls it a perfectly constructed pain machine. When you get to solver level you realise it will never be *solved* in theory because the permutations (no limit) and adjustments are endless and far beyond anything a normal human could memorise. So honestly not too late to 'get in' now either. 

[Dewt]

One of the worst things for me when it was my only source of income was friends and family saying "can I give you 20 quid to play with and you get half of the winnings" or whatever.

No

No part of that is a good deal for me

Them days is over now like

[cacciaguida]

When my health took a turn four years ago I decided I needed some bullet-proof way of making money even when I was sick, so I thought, ah, I've always wondered if I was any good at that poker.

The answer to that question was no, no I'm definitely not - or certainly not good enough yet at least.  It seems that these days you need to be pretty damn serious/dedicated to go from zero to hero (+ a little natural talent, some people do just click with it, bastards) and that's also assuming you get wise advice early on with what to study.

But still, I was in love with the idea and persisted by starting to casually do all the things you're supposed to do: get tracking software to record all your hands; play a lot; post hands on a forum (2+2) and learn to eat criticism for breakfast; and combine all that with unshakeable bankroll management (i.e. only ever playing stakes you can afford, accounting for variance).

Soooo that was the genesis of where I am today. I've made a pinch over 2k so far just grinding micros, mainly on Stars. Currently a Sky 10nl grinder who could probably play higher but as I'm learning to be good (and enjoy playing)  - not necessarily climb the stakes as quickly as possible - I've consistently spent my winnings (bankroll) on more poker books and software. I even have PioSolver now which is one of those expensive gto 'solvers' and, yes, fuck me, even though it cost £250[nb]I did spend the rest of my roll on marijuana and psychedelics in my defence.[/nb], it has increased my understanding and enjoyment of the game immensely.

(Everyone says don't bother with GTO (Game Theory Optimal) until you're crushing midstakes. That's complete bollocks. The game is the same game at 2NL as it is at 500NL; you just adjust to different players and rake. Which is the beauty of it really.)

I have ambitions to take it further but it's second fiddle to a career obviously. A brilliant, unfurling, infuriating game. Tommy Angelo calls it a perfectly constructed pain machine. When you get to solver level you realise it will never be *solved* in theory because the permutations (no limit) and adjustments are endless and far beyond anything a normal human could memorise. So honestly not too late to 'get in' now either.

Agree with all of this to be honest

[thugler]

When my health took a turn four years ago I decided I needed some bullet-proof way of making money even when I was sick, so I thought, ah, I've always wondered if I was any good at that poker.

The answer to that question was no, no I'm definitely not - or certainly not good enough yet at least.  It seems that these days you need to be pretty damn serious/dedicated to go from zero to hero (+ a little natural talent, some people do just click with it, bastards) and that's also assuming you get wise advice early on with what to study.

But still, I was in love with the idea and persisted by starting to casually do all the things you're supposed to do: get tracking software to record all your hands; play a lot; post hands on a forum (2+2) and learn to eat criticism for breakfast; and combine all that with unshakeable bankroll management (i.e. only ever playing stakes you can afford, accounting for variance).

Soooo that was the genesis of where I am today. I've made a pinch over 2k so far just grinding micros, mainly on Stars. Currently a Sky 10nl grinder who could probably play higher but as I'm learning to be good (and enjoy playing)  - not necessarily climb the stakes as quickly as possible - I've consistently spent my winnings (bankroll) on more poker books and software. I even have PioSolver now which is one of those expensive gto 'solvers' and, yes, fuck me, even though it cost £250[nb]I did spend the rest of my roll on marijuana and psychedelics in my defence.[/nb], it has increased my understanding and enjoyment of the game immensely.

(Everyone says don't bother with GTO (Game Theory Optimal) until you're crushing midstakes. That's complete bollocks. The game is the same game at 2NL as it is at 500NL; you just adjust to different players and rake. Which is the beauty of it really.)

I have ambitions to take it further but it's second fiddle to a career obviously. A brilliant, unfurling, infuriating game. Tommy Angelo calls it a perfectly constructed pain machine. When you get to solver level you realise it will never be *solved* in theory because the permutations (no limit) and adjustments are endless and far beyond anything a normal human could memorise. So honestly not too late to 'get in' now either.

How many of your decisions are based on this 'solver' thing? Isn't that effectively having it tell you what to do rather than you getting better at playing? I understand everyone uses these things, but it still seems rather dubious.

[Dewt]

A cool thing an online poker player did about ten years ago was identify an essentially fucked, random table full of unpredictable players, cover the bit of her screen where her own cards would show with a sticky note and demonstrate that it didn't affect her profit ratio.

[Bence Fekete]

How many of your decisions are based on this 'solver' thing? Isn't that effectively having it tell you what to do rather than you getting better at playing? I understand everyone uses these things, but it still seems rather dubious.

It's more like something you use as a study aid and internalize over time. And it only shows you (with no explanation) how it would play your range and your opponents range given the parameters of one specific spot - so in reality you're trying to understand why it does what it does. Which is: game theory and the underlying logic behind all good poker.

You learn how to use GTO to craft more profitable exploitative plays. The strategies are usually so complicated though, that when you solve you're not really looking for a 'did I play this specific hand correctly' type answer. It's more like, 'how should I play my range here?' And 'what lessons can I extrapolate from the way the solver plays that I can crystallise into something I can actually memorise and use in game?'

NB: I should stress you definitely do not need a solver to get good at poker or through the micros. I was doing fine just thinking about ranges and ratios but in all honesty I got bored and wanted to understand the underlying strategy behind some of the more modern clever plays. You also don't need to fork out $250 for PioSolver these days, I think GTO + looks just as useful but is only $75 for essentially the same software.

[Bence Fekete]

For anyone looking to dip their toes into GTO I recommend Andrew Brokos' Play Optimal Poker. It's written in layman style and while it's still one tough cookie (conceptually) it's where I wish I'd started sooner.

[billyandthecloneasaurus]

anyone wanna join our fairly casual game tonight?

$5.50 in, same again to rebuy and to add on

pokerstars, 7.30pm with a great bunch of lads

[Ferris]

Billy - I cannot hear anyone say "living room" without automatically completing the sentence with the rest of your avatar text.

[Puce Moment]

anyone wanna join our fairly casual game tonight?

$5.50 in, same again to rebuy and to add on

pokerstars, 7.30pm with a great bunch of lads

I'd be up for this in future.

[billyandthecloneasaurus]

Billy - I cannot hear anyone say "living room" without automatically completing the sentence with the rest of your avatar text.

proudest moment:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=potFkvq1EJM

[Bence Fekete]

A cool thing an online poker player did about ten years ago was identify an essentially fucked, random table full of unpredictable players, cover the bit of her screen where her own cards would show with a sticky note and demonstrate that it didn't affect her profit ratio.

I've seen something like this but I can't find it now. Only it was a SnG and they (he) won purely by using the dynamics of the various stages of the sit 'n' go as leverage. They were also pretty lucky not to run into better hands when it mattered, course, but it was a reasonable demo of just how much of tournament play revolves around stacks and blind-structures over your actual hole cards.

[Ferris]

proudest moment:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=potFkvq1EJM

Sensational

[billyandthecloneasaurus]

I'd be up for this in future.

Fancy a casual game this afternoon/early eve?  bit spontaneous like but should have numbers for it

applies to everyone here

[Puce Moment]

aww shit - i need notice but would like to be in