Stewart Lee on Gervais

[billyandthecloneasaurus]

I must have weird, shit taste, because I like Stu's columns and don't really like any stand-up or tv he's done since 41st best/comedy vehicle s1.

Or it's just that I've watched fucking dozens of other standups since then, but i don't read any other humorous newspaper column type things, except stuff I get linked to.  Bit of both, probz.

[Twit 2]

It is amazing to think that someone can get paid for writing that sort of stuff in a paper like The Observer.

Yes, I continue to be surprised by comedy fans on here who don't seem to wonder if this is Lee's main MO when writing these columns - "What bizarre convoluted shite can I get away with being paid for" - and instead criticise them for being incoherent or not funny enough, as if Lee were thinking, "I need to write the funniest column ever" and failing. I know, "Ahhh, it's supposed to be bad" is often a cop-out but I think it really does make sense in the context of Lee's comedic persona and what we know about his attitude to his work.

Though perhaps after an interval of around 35 to 40 years it is fine to recycle[nb]Are these working again? Good, the word you are looking for, Talulah, is homage.[/nb] the rhythms, structure and other linguistic tics of the late Clive James TV columns as Lee so frequently does, lets just hope no one reports that to Plagiarist's Corner.

I really doubt he's lifting James's style, consciously or even sub-consciously. Perhaps it's just the old confirmation bias and you're seeing James in there because you've read him. It seems to me more likely that Lee and James - Oxbridge literature bods both - have drawn on a similar canon that's informed their writing. As I said upthread, Lee seems to reference a lot of the style and cadence of weird and occult fiction and use deliberately archaic literary language. James also adopted a deliberately pompous and literary style to approach the mundane. It's too broad and standard an idea (I understand that James merely popularised, not invented, this style) for it to follow that Lee was influenced by James here. I could be wrong, though, and I welcome a quote from Lee saying "Clive taught me everything I know about adopting a highfalutin tone for comedic effect!"

[Stone Cold Steve Austin]

He's said the columns are basically a result of him picking out an actual newspaper column from the week and writing a sort of parody of it. I don't know if he's ever said that in an interview anywhere I can point to but I saw him do a WIP where he decided to just read out his columns instead of doing material and that was how he explained them there. That was the last time I paid to see him

[Sebastian Cobb]

In this interview with Alan Moore he claims his newspaper articles were written from the position of someone who wanted to be sacked and were also bait for Chinese/Russian comment farms.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iytGHs4Nga0&t=2s

I'm not sure I buy it.

I reckon if you're an aspiring comic and you get the piss taken out of you in a Stewart Lee bit it's probably a bit like being a celebrity and having the piss taken out of you in The Simpsons in the glory days, before the celeb cameos became unbearably sycophantic and shit.

[Thursday]

I think punching up/down can be a relevant differentiation but probably moreso when it's about privelige vs marginalisation rather than on the axis of which comedians are talked of more wistfully in green rooms. I'm not sure why there should be an expectation of solidarity between them anyway,
.

I think this is the main thing I do find odd a bit odd, as if in being a comedian, you're joining a community or a society. And you have to abide by certain expectations, and if you don't then the whole village will speak ill of you behind your back. Obviously it makes sense as just general decency and politeness and people will probably bump into each other and work together so most people wouldn't want to risk creating awkwardness anyway.

So I suppose in doing things like this other comedians don't like Lee because they read it as him saying "I don't have to be nice about everyone anymore, I can say what I want"

[Sebastian Cobb]

Something I guess that must be odd for Gervais/his legion this time is that Lee makes a point of not using Twitter to promote himself, and that's exactly where Ricky's fanbase seems to live these days.

[Retinend]

I thought this piece was pointless, poorly written shite. And I say that as someone who loves SL and thinks Gervais%u2019 work is deserving of endless dismantling.

Agreed. Wanted to enjoy a little Schadenfreude but it was too hard to follow.

[Twit 2]

In this interview with Alan Moore he claims his newspaper articles were written from the position of someone who wanted to be sacked and were also bait for Chinese/Russian comment farms.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iytGHs4Nga0&t=2s

I'm not sure I buy it.

If Lee says so, I'm inclined to buy it, the same way I don't buy Gervais's self-aggrandisement. One is a reflective practitioner who has paid his dues and can articulate what he is doing; the other is deluded narcissist who has no clue what comedy, drama or art is.

[Sebastian Cobb]

If Lee says so, I'm inclined to buy it, the same way I don't buy Gervais's self-aggrandisement. One is a reflective practitioner who has paid his dues and can articulate what he is doing; the other is deluded narcissist who has no clue what comedy, drama or art is.

I don't doubt there's elements of truth in there. I just think there's a bit of revisionism regarding that's what he set out to do vs that's what it became. I don't think he's a lying hack like Gervais.

[Old Gold Tooth]

I think this is the main thing I do find odd a bit odd, as if in being a comedian, you're joining a community or a society.

I think that's exactly how Herring sees it though, and due to RHLSTP he relies on being chummy and Avalon-y with other comedians a lot more than Lee has to, which is why his comments about who should/shouldn't be fair game for comedy come across as a bit "establishment."

I remember during the good fun but occasionally tense podcast they did when Lee said that Herring had appointed himself as some sort of benevolent elder statesman to keep in with the new generation of comedians, which was said in good spirits, but it did seem to ring true.

[Sebastian Cobb]

I think there are networks. In the Fern Brady RHLSTP she mentions a big whatsapp group of women comedians that acts as a support network and a bit of a name and shame group for creeps in the industry.

Obviously women are a minority group in comedy and you see these networks pop up quite a bit (like in electronic music too) because they can be a bit competitive and hostile when blokes are left to it. But it wouldn't surprise me that there is an inner circle with those on the avalon circuit.