Labour Party discussion: "Shouting Starmer Starmer Starmer mega mega white man!"

[BlodwynPig]

Victoria in Cheltenham is chortling into her morning gin at the thought

Violet in Chalfont St. Peter is nagging her banker husband to join the Labour Party "at least while Sir Keir is leading the charge!"

[Sebastian Cobb]

Can I err... Both sides trans issues.

https://mobile.twitter.com/siennamarla/status/1277503543901999109

I can't see this pleasing anyone. It's going to make trans people and their allies feel alienated but also not going to appease terfs, not that I think he should do that. What is point?

[Buelligan]

Ambivalence is the new morality.  Next week, we see if Saudi Arabia still needs those super weapons.

That should gain Labour a few votes from the House of Saud even if no one else votes for them ever again.

[evilcommiedictator]

Starmer counting to 50 forensically

[monkfromhavana]

Starmer counting to 50 forensically

Starmer: "Now are we absolutely sure that the number 22 isn't an antisemitic trope?"

Shadow Cabinet: "yes"

Starmer: "Right, number 23, are we sure that the Tories are going with that? Does it play well in the optics?"

Shadow Cabinet: "yes"

Starmer: "Ok, moving onto number 24...."

Left-leaning MP: "Can we stop checking if the numbers 22, 23, and 24 are ok and just carry on counting?"

Starmer: "Antisemite"

[Paul Calf]

Look at the state of Keith Haircut.

https://twitter.com/judeinlondon2/status/1277566420415655936

Look at the fucking state of him.

[Buelligan]

It was just a moment, like, you had to be there.  Fucking hoor.

[Blumf]

"Would you like tea of coffee, Mr Starmer?"

[Sebastian Cobb]

Look at the state of Keith Haircut.

https://twitter.com/judeinlondon2/status/1277566420415655936

Look at the fucking state of him.

I'm not sure you can cut and paste 'defund the police' because austerity has resulted in an underfunded force whereas in America they spend countries defence budgets on military toys for them.

But I think the 'organisational issues' is him using a wider term for what we would call 'structural racism'. Which shows he has no intent in tackling this properly. And if he's not afraid to do it for something like BLM which is very in vogue just now, you can bet your arse it's the same for tackling the same structures when dealing with general inequality or the environment.

[Paul Calf]

The second thing he said: "I was Director of Public Prosecutions"

He knows he's not up for the job. He's constantly auditioning his competence, when what we actually want is commitment and passion. The world needs a leader, not a manager.

[Sebastian Cobb]

I agree. AlthoughiI think the people we're up against would be happy with a team of managers who act exactly like shit work managers (raise own profile, champion meagre successes, hide the failures, don't commit to targets so you can't be accused of breaking them).

[Buelligan]

Johnson does that, about Mayor of London.  I hate them both if I'm honest.

Maybe not hate but I'd be relieved if they fucked off forever, either together or separately.

[machotrouts]

Look at the state of Keith Haircut.

https://twitter.com/judeinlondon2/status/1277566420415655936

Look at the fucking state of him.

I know we all knew the knee-taking was an empty gesture, but I thought he'd at least stay weaselly and vague about it instead of going on TV straight-up like "Oh, that meant absolutely less than nothing. I love the police, and indeed the whole Life-Ruining Industry. I've personally ruined thousands of lives, and I'm very proud of it. 🙂"

Not just the brazen cynicism of Faking a Knee that infuriates me, but the apparent bewildered contempt for anyone who doesn't share it. Tutting condescension for anyone who'd sincerely do the exact thing he was pretending to do. Oh gosh no, of course I didn't mean it, I was kneeling to advance my career. What kind of idiot would have principles?

[NoSleep]

"Would you like tea of coffee, Mr Starmer?"

Hang on while he asks Boris Johnson.

[Paul Calf]

And watch him try to be stern and authoritative at the end. He won't be having any truck with that nonsense! Clip round the ear for you, BLM! I'm embarrassed for him and for the first time in years, I'm ashamed to say I'm a member of the Labour Party.

[honeychile]

The thing is, it's one of those things a good leader should be able to articulate to the public isn't it, and want to as well? To bring people together and try to foster consensus?  Say something about how in the age of social media slogans, people who think they're on different sides of the argument don't realise how much they've got in common. When BLM activists see the dehumanising treatment of black people by the police, they demand the police be defunded. And when many people hear the phrase "defund the police" they imagine all law and order being abandoned. But when we look at these problems as a society, and we consider police resources devoted to imprisoning people for having a bit of weed, employing tactics which alienate minority groups, dealing with a large amount of work relating to people experiencing problems with mental health, and sending people to a prison system which can leave initially minor criminals hardened; why don't we take the money we're wasting on those things, things which not only don't work but make the problem worse -  and divert it instead to the sorts of crime reduction plans we all know we need, which actually work - mental health services, services for young people, genuine rehabilitation opportunities, and building homes and neighbourhoods that people can feel proud of? Unburdened from having to work as part-time social workers which they were never trained as, police funding can be targeted where it's actually effective at catching real criminals. Say something about how if tough talk and governments taking a firm line stopped crime we'd have ended it years ago. The media are happy when we're at each others' throats, yet when we start talking and listening to each other, we'd see that behind the odd misunderstanding the british people are actually in overwhelming agreement on building a safer country for everyone.

[thugler]

I know we all knew the knee-taking was an empty gesture, but I thought he'd at least stay weaselly and vague about it instead of going on TV straight-up like "Oh, that meant absolutely less than nothing. I love the police, and indeed the whole Life-Ruining Industry. I've personally ruined thousands of lives, and I'm very proud of it. 🙂"

Not just the brazen cynicism of Faking a Knee that infuriates me, but the apparent bewildered contempt for anyone who doesn't share it. Tutting condescension for anyone who'd do sincerely do the exact thing he was pretending to do. Oh gosh no, of course I didn't mean it, I was kneeling to advance my career. What kind of idiot would have principles?

You have to look at this, and also the recent military bollocks, and antisemitism bs as what they are, which is fairly blatent attempts to combat the popular view of Labour as not being supportive/strong enough on these issues. Likewise the black lives matter support is specifically on things he can be seen to support and not on the defund the police stuff. It's cynical political  maneuvering stuff, but it probably is necessary unfortunately. Why must the Labour leader be a bastion of honesty and fair play? the Tories aren't going to do any of that shit.

[thugler]

The thing is, it's one of those things a good leader should be able to articulate to the public isn't it, and want to as well? To bring people together and try to foster consensus?  Say something about how in the age of social media slogans, people who think they're on different sides of the argument don't realise how much they've got in common. When BLM activists see the dehumanising treatment of black people by the police, they demand the police be defunded. And when many people hear the phrase "defund the police" they imagine all law and order being abandoned. But when we look at these problems as a society, and we consider police resources devoted to imprisoning people for having a bit of weed, employing tactics which alienate minority groups, dealing with a large amount of work relating to people experiencing problems with mental health, and sending people to a prison system which can leave initially minor criminals hardened; why don't we take the money we're wasting on those things, things which not only don't work but make the problem worse -  and divert it instead to the sorts of crime reduction plans we all know we need, which actually work - mental health services, services for young people, genuine rehabilitation opportunities, and building homes and neighbourhoods that people can feel proud of? Unburdened from having to work as part-time social workers which they were never trained as, police funding can be targeted where it's actually effective at catching real criminals. Say something about how if tough talk and governments taking a firm line stopped crime we'd have ended it years ago. The media are happy when we're at each others' throats, yet when we start talking and listening to each other, we'd see that behind the odd misunderstanding the british people are actually in overwhelming agreement on building a safer country for everyone.

Yes totally agree with this, this is exactly why the defund the police stuff is not popular, as it's a slogan that is frightening to many. If it's presented in a different way with details on how money will be diverted elsewhere and what will be decriminalised and prevented by different means it becomes a far more agreeable proposal.

[Sebastian Cobb]

Starmer Chameleon

[BlodwynPig]

can I do this?


STARMER GONE

[Sebastian Cobb]

You have to look at this, and also the recent military bollocks, and antisemitism bs as what they are, which is fairly blatent attempts to combat the popular view of Labour as not being supportive/strong enough on these issues. Likewise the black lives matter support is specifically on things he can be seen to support and not on the defund the police stuff. It's cynical political  maneuvering stuff, but it probably is necessary unfortunately. Why must the Labour leader be a bastion of honesty and fair play? the Tories aren't going to do any of that shit.

This sort of bullshit isn't zero cost. It will turn away progressives and minorities. Literally causing damage to minorities in the process. Giving them less power in the process. That's basically upholding the structures of white supremacy, in the sociological definition, rather than the tiki torch definition.

[thugler]

This sort of bullshit isn't zero cost. It will turn away progressives and minorities. Literally causing damage to minorities in the process. Giving them less power in the process. That's basically upholding the structures of white supremacy, in the sociological definition, rather than the tiki torch definition.

Not winning elections isn't zero cost either. Every time we don't that's 5 years down the drain. I want these idealistic policies as well, but we can't do any of them if we don't win.

Politics is an ugly nasty cynical load of shit unfortunately.

[imitationleather]

lol Starmer isn't winning any election.

[NoSleep]

It'll take less than a bacon sandwich to ensure he doesn't.

[Zetetic]

DPP stuff will be a lever for both left and right.

[thugler]

lol Starmer isn't winning any election.

I'm not sure he will either. But him being dishonest and cynical is perfectly fine If it works. It appears to be currently, but time will tell.

[Buelligan]

You have to look at this, and also the recent military bollocks, and antisemitism bs as what they are, which is fairly blatent attempts to combat the popular view of Labour as not being supportive/strong enough on these issues. Likewise the black lives matter support is specifically on things he can be seen to support and not on the defund the police stuff. It's cynical political  maneuvering stuff, but it probably is necessary unfortunately. Why must the Labour leader be a bastion of honesty and fair play? the Tories aren't going to do any of that shit.

Because that's what's important?  Because being a socialist means treating others as equals and with respect, not lying and conniving to control them.

[Sebastian Cobb]

But him being dishonest and cynical is perfectly fine If it works.

What if it 'works' but the dishonesty affects you? If you felt you were being double-crossed would you be alright with it then?

[BlodwynPig]

Starmer will be gone this year....he's a cocoon long after the butterfly has flown.

[Old Nehamkin]

Not winning elections isn't zero cost either. Every time we don't that's 5 years down the drain. I want these idealistic policies as well, but we can't do any of them if we don't win.

Politics is an ugly nasty cynical load of shit unfortunately.

This kind of appeal to hard-headed pragmatism might carry more weight if the last decade of UK politics hadn't seen Brown and Miliband failing miserably after running on centrist platforms designed to appease Tory moderates while Corbyn brought the party within 2,000 votes of government in 2017 with his magic grampa socialism even with the entire British media establishment and half of his own party arrayed against him.