Author Topic: Labour Party discussion: "Shouting Starmer Starmer Starmer mega mega white man!"  (Read 52497 times)

Well I think you can fit 11345 angels on the tip of a needle.....beat that!

Sebastian Cobb

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Sebastian Cobb

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Holy shit people really are going for it aren't they:
https://twitter.com/UKDemockery/status/1277643562054823937

machotrouts

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I'm finding honeychile's A THING very persuasive. Now give us your compelling A THING machotrouts.

More than happy to, but I don't think Neil lets us embed that sort of thing on here?

Jockice

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Other people to 'big up' Starmer in the last week are Piers Morgan and George Osborne, fact fans!

It's a new regular feature on GMB, Piers and Kier's Love-In.

BlodwynPig

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Piers was trying to get Annalise Dodds to call the government weasels this morning and she said "I don't go in for calling individuals names". She's taken the beige pill. Starmer collective hypnosis. "Kinder and gentler and blander, yet more dangerous"

Paul Calf

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Well I think you can fit 11345 angels on the tip of a needle.....beat that!

Innit.

Fucking state.

Paul Calf

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I don't think this post deserved to have been swallowed up at the bottom of the page.

He's really pivoting to the right this week isn't he? To be honest, I'm somewhat grateful that he's done it so early on. The left can now get on with organising.

He's really pivoting to the right this week isn't he? To be honest, I'm somewhat grateful that he's done it so early on. The left can now get on with organising.

The attempt to play 'both sides' on the trans issue has really pissed me off to be fair. I hadn't seen this until recently. I don't know what the point is of trying to appeal to the gender critical lot..

Christ, it's all kicking off on our CLP closed Facebook group. I wrote "Sir Keir seems to have angered a lot of the black community with his stance on BLM on Monday morning. He's won over one person though. #forensic" along with a link to Farage's tweet. I've been called a "so called socialist", been told that if there were branch meetings then I would be asked to reconsider my position, told I should be ashamed of myself and someone else scuttled off to see if my post was against party rules. Lots of people really pissed off with Starmer but the Sir Keir fan boys are far angrier that I pointed out Farage's agreement than the comments that he's agreeing with. Really can't see myself standing with these people and going doorknocking with them when the time comes.

Barry Admin

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I mean, what's the reasoning that they're giving?

Johnny Yesno

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Similar stuff going on at our Branch.

Whatever your views, Starmer has royally fucked up the one thing he was mainly elected to do. What a complete dickhead.

Paul Calf

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They're feeling like ignorant dupes and need someone to blame.

Maybe because treating Farage's obvious trolling post as if it's serious, when it's designed purely to wind people up. It's a 'trigger the lefties' joke to him.

The BLM stuff, I don't see why it should be an issue to expect a bit more from the party in support, not sure I saw quite the level of dismissal that others saw in that interview. I didn't expect any Labour leader to give even implicit support to anything with the name defund the police, but it would be nice to hear more of the investment that is the real meaning behind that slogan being referred to. Since Labour policy has usually been to provide more funding for those things anyway. I think it's a fair criticism that Starmer is being overly defensive and is afraid to say anything much to piss off various different groups, or give much detail on Labour's actual plans. Often this seems to be infuriating people and giving ammunition to those who claim his real plans and motives are further to the right than he lets on. 

Absorb the anus burn

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Christ, it's all kicking off on our CLP closed Facebook group..........

Similar schism in an online Labour group I'm a member of.

I mean, what's the reasoning that they're giving?

They're not giving any reasoning, except one woman who tried to pin the blame on the BLM movement for not being clear enough about what defunding the police entailed.she then went on a lengthy diatribe about what they should have said to make their position clearer. I suggested she email them with her concerns, which didn't go down well. I've clearly questioned (twice!) why they are angrier about my pointing out the Farage tweet than the circumstances that led to it but no‐one responded. Fucking bonkers.

pancreas

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They know they've delivered the LP over to the Tories. They don't want anyone to mention it. Keep mentioning it.

Buelligan

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Yes, absolutely.  I hugely applaud you, hzj, you're a shining beacon of truth to us all.  Never stop comrade.

Sebastian Cobb

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They're not giving any reasoning, except one woman who tried to pin the blame on the BLM movement for not being clear enough about what defunding the police entailed.she then went on a lengthy diatribe about what they should have said to make their position clearer. I suggested she email them with her concerns, which didn't go down well. I've clearly questioned (twice!) why they are angrier about my pointing out the Farage tweet than the circumstances that led to it but no‐one responded. Fucking bonkers.

I've been broadly having the same argument with a bit of a divergence into the trans argument.

They highlighted the abuse Rowling was getting as an example of 'both sides' throwing bricks and I managed to get 'One side is hoping nobody draws attentiontto the fact it's stood in front of a brickworks that it happens to own.'. Which I was quite proud of.

Of course to this person there were never two sides chucking bricks during the AS debacle.

NoSleep

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Christ, it's all kicking off on our CLP closed Facebook group. I wrote "Sir Keir seems to have angered a lot of the black community with his stance on BLM on Monday morning. He's won over one person though. #forensic" along with a link to Farage's tweet. I've been called a "so called socialist", been told that if there were branch meetings then I would be asked to reconsider my position, told I should be ashamed of myself and someone else scuttled off to see if my post was against party rules. Lots of people really pissed off with Starmer but the Sir Keir fan boys are far angrier that I pointed out Farage's agreement than the comments that he's agreeing with. Really can't see myself standing with these people and going doorknocking with them when the time comes.

They would love to alienate you out of the party. Don't give them that pleasure. Don't be afraid of their empty threats. Thoughtfully speak your mind.

Maybe because treating Farage's obvious trolling post as if it's serious, when it's designed purely to wind people up. It's a 'trigger the lefties' joke to him.

The BLM stuff, I don't see why it should be an issue to expect a bit more from the party in support, not sure I saw quite the level of dismissal that others saw in that interview.

No, I don't expect him to back calls to defund the police either (calls which are not particularly loud in the UK). In fact, I would have expected him to say "I don't think it's a good idea to defund the police. As DPP I saw first hand some of the great work the police can do. But what I think these calls speak to is...".

When given the opportunity he could have talked about how investment in social services/early intervention/rehabilitation (all gutted by the Tories) can be more effective than policing at reducing crime. But he didn't. He could have referred to his own Justice Secretary's report into treatment of BAME people in the British justice system. But he didn't.

What he did do was minimise BLM to a "moment" and have the brass balls to redefine organised collective calls to address racial injustice in the country he wants to govern (as leader of an allegedly left-wing, allegedly anti-racist party) as a protest about the death of one man 4000 miles away. What he did do was signal that he has no intention of taking seriously the concerns that people have taken to the streets to express about the racial inequalities in this country. What he did do was try to outflank the fucking Tories on the culture wars right.

On Facebook today I've already seen two black people I know, neither of whom are particularly vocal or online in their politics, announce in disgust that they will be leaving the Labour party. And I can't fucking blame them.

Johnny Yesno

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Comments about cuts to policing may not have aged well in the current climate but at least Corbyn didn't miss opportunities to speak up for vulnerable people:

Quote
Speaking at the scene on Saturday, Mr Corbyn, whose Islington North constituency includes Finsbury Park, said: "I am totally shocked. This is a very close-knit community, and this is yet another stabbing on the streets of London.

"People should not be carrying knives. A human life has been taken.

"There are a lot of people working as delivery drivers, they must have better conditions of employment and employers must take more responsibility for their safety too.

"Police cuts have meant fewer officers on the streets, and this raises issues of safety in the community in general."

He added: "Delivery drivers do a great job in London all of the time. Yet they are vulnerable.

"They're often on zero hours contracts, yet the food they are carrying is insured. So the delivery driver is less valuable than the food they are carrying.

"We need to end the whole culture of gig employment."

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/finsbury-park-stabbing-ubereats-deliveroo-london-2020-murder-probe-a4326356.html

'One side is hoping nobody draws attentiontto the fact it's stood in front of a brickworks that it happens to own.'

Having that. Just need to engineer a conversation that mentions bricks.

Sebastian Cobb

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Having that. Just need to engineer a conversation that mentions bricks.

Might be easier than you think given this is bourne out of starmer appearing on Radio 4 yesterday.

https://www.pinknews.co.uk/2020/06/29/keir-starmer-trans-rights-gender-recognition-act-bbc-radio-4-today-labour-party/

Labour leader Keir Starmer says that the “way forward” for trans rights in the UK is for “everybody to stop chucking bricks at each other”.

Christ.

You know when Tony Benn and Corbyn snuck down to that broom cupboard to screw on the plaque commemorating Emily Wilding Davison? Starmer would definitely have snitched, wouldn't he? Performed a citizen's arrest and shouted fir a security guard. It's so easy to visualise.


On Facebook today I've already seen two black people I know, neither of whom are particularly vocal or online in their politics, announce in disgust that they will be leaving the Labour party. And I can't fucking blame them.

It's especially painful given how invested a lot of black people, members and non-members, had become in Labour under Corbyn. This isn't to overstate the internal difficulties we still had - i remember a fair bit of testimony to the effect that racism was still an issue in some of the branch, constituency and organisational levels. But it felt like, just as the left was actually ascendant and getting organised, so too were black sections becoming more emboldened and confident. Even that great racist cupcakes video felt like an assertion that black voices were no longer there just to try and get the vote out, but because their voices are precious and insightful and actually fucking mattered in building a new society. Corbyn was off delivering speeches in Geneva where he would denounce structural adjustment - a phrase virtually unuttered in mainstream political discourse - and quoted Thomas Sankara for good measure. I remember the pages of The Voice having letters and columnists eager to elect Corbyn as "our first black prime minister". Emotional investment already seems to be draining and so much is at risk of being pissed away.

I do like Dawn Butler's tweet from yesterday:

Quote
#BlackLivesMatterUK
#BlackLivesMatters

More than just a #
More than just a moment

Comments about cuts to policing may not have aged well in the current climate but at least Corbyn didn't miss opportunities to speak up for vulnerable people


Johnny Yesno

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It's especially painful given how invested a lot of black people, members and non-members, had become in Labour under Corbyn. This isn't to overstate the internal difficulties we still had - i remember a fair bit of testimony to the effect that racism was still an issue in some of the branch, constituency and organisational levels. But it felt like, just as the left was actually ascendant and getting organised, so too were black sections becoming more emboldened and confident. Even that great racist cupcakes video felt like an assertion that black voices were no longer there just to try and get the vote out, but because their voices are precious and insightful and actually fucking mattered in building a new society. Corbyn was off delivering speeches in Geneva where he would denounce structural adjustment - a phrase virtually unuttered in mainstream political discourse - and quoted Thomas Sankara for good measure. I remember the pages of The Voice having letters and columnists eager to elect Corbyn as "our first black prime minister". Emotional investment already seems to be draining and so much is at risk of being pissed away.

I do like Dawn Butler's tweet from yesterday:



You've made me cry now, you bastard. I'm not voting for you. Where's machotrouts and his milonga dildo videos?

No, I don't expect him to back calls to defund the police either (calls which are not particularly loud in the UK). In fact, I would have expected him to say "I don't think it's a good idea to defund the police. As DPP I saw first hand some of the great work the police can do. But what I think these calls speak to is...".

When given the opportunity he could have talked about how investment in social services/early intervention/rehabilitation (all gutted by the Tories) can be more effective than policing at reducing crime. But he didn't. He could have referred to his own Justice Secretary's report into treatment of BAME people in the British justice system. But he didn't.

What he did do was minimise BLM to a "moment" and have the brass balls to redefine organised collective calls to address racial injustice in the country he wants to govern (as leader of an allegedly left-wing, allegedly anti-racist party) as a protest about the death of one man 4000 miles away. What he did do was signal that he has no intention of taking seriously the concerns that people have taken to the streets to express about the racial inequalities in this country. What he did do was try to outflank the fucking Tories on the culture wars right.

On Facebook today I've already seen two black people I know, neither of whom are particularly vocal or online in their politics, announce in disgust that they will be leaving the Labour party. And I can't fucking blame them.

I agree with the first two paragraphs, I'd prefer a stronger message of solidarity, this is something Corbyn was great at, but the use of the word moment in addition to movement has been taken in a very uncharitable way, it seemed to me to be emphasising that the floyd murder has generated an international moment of anger and solidarity internationally. I don't see why it's dismissive in itself. It's too neutral and not as positive as the statement he made previously which does make reference to structural racism in this country and having our own lessons to learn. He seems to be worried about being linked to the 'defund the police stuff', and is dismissive of that. I don't agree with him. He seems to struggle with stuff like this and could do with taking a leaf out of Corbyn's book in his ability to show genuine compassion in situations like this. I expected him to dismiss 'defund the police' but it would be better to emphasise what Labour would do to improve things and invest in prevention etc.

However, if this has gone down really badly with black people overall (have no idea if that's accurate) I would accept that he's screwed up as I'm speaking as a white person and my immediate thoughts on seeing the interview aren't really important in comparison to those more directly affected by this.

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