Tommy Wiseau (director of The Room) - Fraudster

[Jim Bob]

There has been a long running court battle over a documentary about the making of "the worst film ever made"; The Room.  Said documentary (A Roomful of Spoons) basically revealed that Tommy Wiseau was in fact not the director of the film.  The legal battle is now over and Wiseau has been ordered to pay $700,000 in damages.

Details here.

Some extra details and speculation within the comments of that thread reveal the following...

Part of missing from this blurb is that Tommy Wiseau claimed that his country or origin, his age, his real name and how he made his money were copyrighted information.

He was born in Poznan, Poland in 1955 under the all American birth name Piotr Wieczorkiewicz

We know know Tommy spent some time in France because the documentary found a mug shot from a drug bust. Because of this a lot of people believe that Tommy at a young age was engaged in criminal activities.

When he arrived in America he lived with his family in New Orleans for a few months and then moved to San Francisco. He apparently started working restaurants before he began selling knock off jeans and clothes at his store. The profits he earned off of retail he used to purchase rental properties in San Francisco and Los Angeles.

Very quickly he had a hundred or so rental properties which lead people to believe he was working with gangs. Of course, what happens to San Francisco and LA in the 90s and 00s? Well, the housing boom. The prices of homes in these areas went from $100K to $1M in very short time.

Wiseau sold off most of his properties and had this sort of bottomless pit of a bank account.

Also some further details from A Roomful of Spoons director Rick Harper are here.

[Noodle Lizard]

None of this is new information - Greg Sestero's book The Disaster Artist goes into Wiseau's whole backstory and all the stuff about Sandy basically taking over the technical side of directing The Room (of course he never tried to take credit for it until The Room became successful). I don't know if any of it makes Wiseau a fraudster, unless you count his very obvious denials about his age/nationality.

As for that court case - yeah, it's not especially surprising (Wiseau's conduct or the eventual ruling), but I can't help but be at least a little sympathetic towards Wiseau regardless - it can't be nice knowing a documentary's going to come out publicly exposing a past you clearly want to forget. It's also worth remembering that Sestero's book seems to imply Wiseau might have sustained brain damage after a car accident when he was younger, which is plausible enough.

[GoblinAhFuckScary]

Ooh great read.

[checkoutgirl]

Who said he was a poor, misunderstood, naive guy? Can't wait to hear this.

[checkoutgirl]

Who hero worships Tommy Wiseau?

[checkoutgirl]

That's not to say that those who enjoy watching The Room ironically, or enjoy the sheer spectacle of hearing Tommy Wiseau talk about... well, pretty much anything should stop doing so

Good of you.

[Sebastian Cobb]

I was disappointed when I saw the room.

Nowhere near as good as a bad film like Futurekick or something.

[checkoutgirl]

but rather to stop viewing him as some kind of goofy hero of bad films; a rag to riches story to be admired and celebrated.

I never did view him that way but I'm going to start doing so now.

[checkoutgirl]

I was disappointed when I saw the room.

Nowhere near as good as a bad film like Futurekick or something.

For me it's bad because of how mundane it is. It's badly structured and repetitive and incredibly mundane. People say Samurai Cop is one of the worst films ever but it has car chases, fights and a helicopter. The Room has none of that.

I've never seen Futurekick but it sounds action packed and therefore better than The Room.

[popcorn]

It took me a while for to work out that this thread title - Fraudster - is Jim Bob announcing that Wiseau is not who he says he is and not the title of Wiseau's comeback movie.

Who the fuck sees Tommy Wiseau as anything other than a crackpot? I suppose some people have an affection for him but it's hardly on the strength of his talents.

[Jim Bob]

Who the fuck sees Tommy Wiseau as anything other than a crackpot? I suppose some people have an affection for him but it's hardly on the strength of his talents.

I guess my point was (if I even have one) that some people view him as a lovable fool who doesn't know any better, when he has continually demonstrated to be pretty savvy when it comes to cultivating his image as a lovable fool and doing his best to silence anyone from saying things that may damage his image as a lovable fool and stopping people from claiming their rightful credit or profits from The Room.

[Armin Meiwes]

This is a weird thread - isn't pretty much all of that already known? Tommy's odd and quite possibly dodgy past and his attempts to hide it have always been part of the story. The Room became a thing because it's a mentally rubbish film and because Tommy is a v strange guy, whether he made money from flipping properties or from selling Yankee blue jeans doesn't make much difference.

[Jim Bob]

Ignore the last part of my OP.  It's largely irrelevant.  I'd rather people stop focusing on my own personal thoughts on the matter.  I created this thread to post the history of the court case because I found it to be an interesting read.  The addendum to my OP is just that; an addendum; a place for me to give my own personal opinion on the human/entity/product that is Tommy Wiseau.  It isn't the thrust of this thread's purpose of being.

[Armin Meiwes]

I guess my point was (if I even have one) that some people view him as a lovable fool who doesn't know any better, when he has continually demonstrated to be pretty savvy when it comes to cultivating his image as a lovable fool and doing his best to silence anyone from sharing his credit or profits.

Have you ever read the Disaster Artist? Because it doesn't really hold back from describing his nasty side and it's pretty clear that he's been v astute at how to monetise his disastrous attempts at film making, honestly I think most people look at him as a complete fruitcake more than a loveable fool.

[Jim Bob]

Have you ever read the Disaster Artist? Because it doesn't really hold back from describing his nasty side and it's pretty clear that he's been v astute at how to monetise his disastrous attempts at film making, honestly I think most people look at him as a complete fruitcake more than a loveable fool.

I've listened to the audiobook, so yes, I'm aware of all of that (although it should be noted that most people haven't read the book - more will have seen the sanitised film adaptation and therefore will be more inclined to view Wiseau as some kind of weird, passionate but untalented lad who made good in life).  It just irks me a bit when a lot of people seem to treat him as an icon of bad movies and shower him with praise (not praise for his artistic abilities - of which he has none, but praise for him as some kind of eccentric, lovable wally).  It's like a much less harmful version of Bojo; there's the man that he presents himself to the world as and then there's the insidious and canny, calculating cunt within.  That's my own personal beef, I guess.  It was just a thought and again, not the reason why I created this thread.

Ooh great read.

This is the kind of response I was hoping for; one reacting to the court case and not focusing solely on my own personal take.

[Jim Bob]

I've deleted the relevant section from my OP, as to not derail this thread any further.  This isn't a thread about my own personal take.  It's a thread about the court case in general.  I wrongly assumed that I would be able to share my own thoughts within the OP without it coming across as the raison d'être for this thread's existence.  That's my bad.

[Noodle Lizard]

I don't think it's been mentioned in any of the articles to do with the documentary/court case, but didn't The Disaster Artist imply that he started working in San Francisco selling little bird figures on the street (hence the name, a misspelling of "oiseau") before being taken in by some sort of mob boss? That might explain why he's so adamant that people don't find out too much about his past, even if only for his own safety.

One weird thing about him, from firsthand experience, is that I've seen him speaking French with a fan quite fluently (albeit still with the exact same accent), although on other occasions I've seen him obviously struggle when asked to do so in front of an audience/interviewer. That's a bit of a puzzler.

[Armin Meiwes]

I've deleted the relevant section from my OP, as to not derail this thread any further.  This isn't a thread about my own personal take.  It's a thread about the court case in general.  I wrongly assumed that I would be able to share my own thoughts within the OP without it coming across as the raison d'être for this thread's existence.  That's my bad.

Hah no fair enough, didn't intend to sound all rattled just didn't really recognise the idea of him being looked at as a loveable fool, although some people might well do.

Yeah pretty funny details in the court case tho.. "no you are not director I am director" "ok but you do want me to direct the film tho yeah?" "Yes please". And him backing out of their meeting and then they just bump in to him anyway sat munching on some food in a deli. Sounds like he deserved to lose the case anyway.

Wonder how much he has made out of The Room in the end, I mean if it really cost $6m then it's hard to imagine even with everything that happened that he has made much of a profit but fuck knows really.

[Jim Bob]

One weird thing about him, from firsthand experience, is that I've seen him speaking French with a fan quite fluently (albeit still with the exact same accent), although on other occasions I've seen him obviously struggle when asked to do so in front of an audience/interviewer. That's a bit of a puzzler.

Not really.  Again; there's the real Tommy Wiseau and then there's the "lovable buffoon" Tommy that he wants to promote to the world as a brand.  He's nowhere near as clueless and bumbling as he presents himself as being.

[Sebastian Cobb]

I've never seen Futurekick but it sounds action packed and therefore better than The Room.

It's got Meg Foster in it, which makes it adjacent to They Live!

[Noodle Lizard]

Wonder how much he has made out of The Room in the end, I mean if it really cost $6m then it's hard to imagine even with everything that happened that he has made much of a profit but fuck knows really.

Unlike even most of the biggest films though, it's still screened regularly in countless cinemas throughout the world nearly 20 years later, and it did pretty well on DVD/Blu-Ray too once word got out. Pair that with adultswim syndication early on, appearances at screenings, occasional guest spots on things like Tim & Eric, merchandise sold from his website (which he literally ships out himself) and The Disaster Artist (I'm sure he made a fair amount from both the book and the movie), he will have seen a pretty good return on it overall. I think I read somewhere, maybe in The Disaster Artist, that it made its budget back within a couple of years of it finding its audience. I'm not sure the actors (other than Greg) saw any of those profits, though.

[Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth]

I guess my point was (if I even have one) that some people view him as a lovable fool who doesn't know any better, when he has continually demonstrated to be pretty savvy when it comes to cultivating his image as a lovable fool and doing his best to silence anyone from saying things that may damage his image as a lovable fool

So he's like BoJo?

[Sebastian Cobb]

Is it true that it cost 6 million to make The Room?

That's like 30 Land and Freedomses or 2.3 Timecrimses.

[Sebastian Cobb]

10/3 Paris Texases!

[Jim Bob]

Is it true that it cost 6 million to make The Room?

I very much doubt it.  If that figure comes from Wiseau, then it's almost certainly horseshit.

So he's like BoJo?

Indeed.  In fact, I made that very comparison two posts after the one which you quoted...

[Tommy Wiseau is] like a much less harmful version of Bojo; there's the man that he presents himself to the world as and then there's the insidious and canny, calculating cunt within.

[Hand Solo]

Isn't it well known since Hollywood's inception, that a lot of movie budgets are inflated by the mob for money laundering purposes?

[Pearly-Dewdrops Drops]

Anyone who considers Tommy Wiseau a loveable fool has only themselves to blame. Part of why The Room is so singularly bizarre is that the entire movie is a thinly veiled expression of Tommy being a vindictive asshole who hates women and got dumped by someone named "Lisa"

[Noodle Lizard]

Is it true that it cost 6 million to make The Room?

In 2002, films were more expensive in general to produce, and with someone as obtuse as Wiseau at the helm the $6m figure is perfectly believable. For a start, he insisted on buying the cameras and much of the other equipment outright, instead of renting as you typically would (I say cameras, because he shot in film and digital simultaneously). That alone accounts for close to $1m.

He also spent money on completely unnecessary things - for instance, building a set to replicate the alleyway right outside the studio they were filming in. I think it also took four months to shoot, which is about four times as long as a movie of this nature would typically take, due to constant re-casting/-crewing and Tommy taking ages to get his dialogue right. Then he spent the best part of a year in post-production and additionally spent a stupid amount of money on promotion (the famous billboard that appeared right in the center of Hollywood). He kept it there for years. This is the kind of person we're talking about and, if the bank clerk Sestero spoke to is correct, he had a "bottomless" bank account to play with.

[Jim Bob]

Then he spent the best part of a year in post-production and additionally spent a stupid amount of money on promotion (the famous billboard that appeared right in the center of Hollywood). He kept it there for years.

If we're including marketing costs within the $6 million that it allegedly cost to make The Room, then yes, I can believe that.  However, marketing and distribution costs are not typically included when talking about how much a film cost to make; only the production budget.  The key word being "make", as the marketing and distribution process comes after the production process, when the film has already been made.  It's one of the main reasons that Hollywood movies typically need to make around x2 to x2.5 times their production budget (the only costs which are usually made public) just to breakeven.

[Noodle Lizard]

If we're including marketing costs within the $6 million that it allegedly cost to make The Room, then yes, I can believe that.  However, marketing and distribution costs are not typically included when talking about how much a film cost to make; only the production budget.  The key word being "make", as the marketing and distribution process comes after the production process, when the film has already been made.  It's one of the main reasons that Hollywood movies typically need to make around x2 to x2.5 times their production budget (the only costs which are usually made public) just to breakeven.

For a self-financed, self-distributed and self-promoted film like this, I think it's fair to assume the budget encompasses everything the filmmaker spent on it. I don't know whether the $6m figure came from Wiseau originally or not (it's at least been corroborated by Sestero and some of the other cast/crew), but I'm not sure what his motive would be to make it seem like it cost more to make than it actually did[nb]I know in the early days of indie, they'd sometimes inflate their production budget hoping for a distribution deal to match, but that's not really been the case since the 90s[/nb], other than to make it sound "big".

Then again, that sounds about right for him.