Need Some Turntable Advice

[Malcy]

When you say turned it you mean you pushed the record around? You heard it faintly because sound was coming off the the surface of the record and the arm directly? Was it connected to your surround sound in a way where it should have actually been working but somehow wasn't?

Spun the record manually yeah. Sound was coming from the record itself and not the connected speakers. I have it connected to a Sony surround via a red and white cable to headphone jack adapter.

Should I have heard sound from the speakers while manually spinning it? I'm beginning to think the while thing is fucked as although the buttons for start/stop work they don't click in like the one for the arm does.

[Ferris]

I would have thought sound should come out the speakers if everything was switched on you manually input a signal by spinning a record, but I am no expert at all

[NoSleep]

Decks don't usually need to be powered for you to hear sound from the speakers if all the connections are correct.

Not really understanding how you're trying to connect it, though. How does a headphone jack adaptor come into it?

You do know that you need to plug a deck into a dedicated "phono" input, not just a standard line input (as you would a CD player, etc)? If not, you need to get a phono preamp (this will be on you, not the guy who sold you the deck).

That said, if it's plugged into the Sony surround you should be hearing something; it'll be very trebly and no bass due to lack of a phono preamp. At least that'll mean the deck's only lacking a belt (and you're lacking a phono preamp on your amplifier).

[Ferris]

Decks don't usually need to be powered for you to hear sound from the speakers if all the connections are correct.

Not really understanding how you're trying to connect it, though. How does a headphone jack adaptor come into it?

You do know that you need to plug a deck into a dedicated "phono" input, not just a standard line input (as you would a CD player, etc)? If not you might need to get a phono preamp.

That said, if it's plugged into the Sony surround you should be hearing something; it'll be very trebly and no bass due to lack of a phono preamp. At least that'll mean the deck's only lacking a belt (and you're lacking a phono preamp on your amplifier).

^it sounds like Malcy is taking the output from the player into a 1/4" output Jack and then plugging that into a different system. As NoSleep says, you'd expect to hear something out the speakers if that was the case

[Malcy]

I would have thought sound should come out the speakers if everything was switched on you manually input a signal by spinning a record, but I am no expert at all

It seems to work when I actually have the volume turned up and the sound is really nice! Might have been an idea to check it was turned up.

So I just need a belt now. £6 on eBay and hopefully the seller will be good enough to refund that much and I'll be satisfied.

[Malcy]

Unplugged it and spun it and it's still putting sound through the surround. The bass is Ok but that's not too much of an issue at the moment due to the crap sound insulation where I live. Once I move somewhere better I'll be looking at getting a phono amp.

It has a switch at the back for phono and line. Just switched I from phono to line and nearly shit myself. The sound increased massively. As did the bass. So much so my cat woke up and shot out the room.

[NoSleep]

Probably hard to discern whether the bass is sufficient or not if you're relying on spinning it by hand. You'd probably notice the weird sound if the deck was operating normally.

So the surround definitely hasn't got a dedicated phono in? Maybe the selector is working in reverse. Line should sound tinny.

[Malcy]

Probably hard to discern whether the bass is sufficient or not if you're relying on spinning it by hand. You'd probably notice the weird sound if the deck was operating normally.

So the surround definitely hasn't got a dedicated phono in? Maybe the selector is working in reverse. Line should sound tinny.

What weird sound? Yeah I thoughtht the line would have sound tinny as well but the sound is the best I have heard music through the system and I've had several different devices connected to it.

No phono connection on the surround. Has everything but.

At least the belt should hopefully mean I'm up and running soon. Still no word from the seller. I think I'll just order the belt and argue later.

Cheers for the help everyone.

[dandoystevski]

Ey up Malcy, as a fellow recent lockdown turntablist who found himself ill-prepared for the number of things associated with getting a t/t working (balancing a tonearm, the fuck?!) i would suggest just checking whether you have a ceramic cartridge installed.  The cartridge is the bit that holds the stylus in place and connects to the rest of the tonearm.   There are different types: Moving Magnet (most common one), Moving Coil (less common) and ceramic (old school, shite according to majority opinion).  You can often look up the t/t online and see which type of cartridge it usually came with. Of course some unscrupulous beggar may have changed it at some point in its life.

If you have either MM or MC then you'd need a phono preamp between yer t/t and the main amplifier.  If you've got a ceramic then you can just plug the t/t straight into the amp and blast away.  Like NoSleep says this will lead to a trebly output which, while loud enough, is lacking somewhat in bass and mids.  I found my old school Philips t/t came with a ceramic which the bloke selling to me warned i should plug straight into the amp rather than the pre-amp for fear of overloading the bastard.  This was fine to begin with but i noticed the harsh trebly sounds and lack of mids and bass quite annoying after a short while.

I ended up buying another ceramic but this time it was a much more advanced type which apparently sounded as good as MM.  Confusingly this one needed a preamp because it doesn't have as strong an output as almost all other ceramics.  Sound wise it's much much better though.  You get the warm thump and air which is what i was looking for really.

Anyway, that's all stuff i've picked up over the last few weeks so i'm no expert and might be talking turnfables yeah, that's right.

[dandoystevski]

Actually on looking yours up (should've done that before bashing at my keyboard), it's much more recent than mine and comes with a pre-amp installed already and a MM cartridge so should be aight in terms of your setup. 

Now you can focus on deciding between penny records on Discogs.

[NoSleep]

What weird sound? Yeah I thoughtht the line would have sound tinny as well but the sound is the best I have heard music through the system and I've had several different devices connected to it.

No phono connection on the surround. Has everything but.

At least the belt should hopefully mean I'm up and running soon. Still no word from the seller. I think I'll just order the belt and argue later.

Cheers for the help everyone.

Is the phono/line switch on the deck, then? I assumed you were talking about the surround. The deck's probably got a cheap phono amp built in by the sound of it. Maybe you could do better.

[Malcy]

Actually on looking yours up (should've done that before bashing at my keyboard), it's much more recent than mine and comes with a pre-amp installed already and a MM cartridge so should be aight in terms of your setup. 

Now you can focus on deciding between penny records on Discogs.

Appreciate the keyboard bashing! Was a lot clearer than a lot of things I've read up on. Have bought 50 records for the lovely low sum of £25. Got a mix of all sorts. Chas & Dave, Hip-Hop, classical, Star Trekkin', Billy Connolly and a load of Barron Knights.  All cheap as chips and courier delivery so have saved loads on postage.

That site has kept me occupied during lockdown! Now on to getting the stuff I really want.

Is the phono/line switch on the deck, then? I assumed you were talking about the surround. The deck's probably got a cheap phono amp built in by the sound of it. Maybe you could do better.

On the back of the deck yes. Also has a USB port so I convert stuff as well. I probably could do better but it didn't cost much and the sound was quite impressive so happy for now as a cheap hobby till I've got the money to move somewhere peaceful and upgrade all my tech.

[Malcy]

The start and stop buttons weren't working when I initially tried to set it up. Decided to open it up and see if I could fix it. And what do I find wrapped around the inner workings of the deck?

Yep. The belt...

So I'm sorted mostly. I have to unplug to stop it spinning but I'm sure I'll be able to fix it. I hope

[NoSleep]

How did the seller not know this?

[Malcy]

How did the seller not know this?

My guess was that it had possibly came loose during transit. I do believe it was just one of those things. He had messaged me back and was really stumped as to its whereabouts. It was underneath the cog bit just off the centre.

Ordered another one earlier off eBay for £5. I'd rather not have had to but I suppose it's good to have a spare.

[NoSleep]

They do get floppy eventually. I have spares for mine.

[Sebastian Cobb]

#teamidlerwheel

[Malcy]

Had to look that up as I'd never heard of it before. Seem to be quite well regarded.

[Sebastian Cobb]

The lenco is a decent deck. They have a reputation for rumble, because if you were to unplug the deck without setting it to off, the idler wheel can sit on the shaft and get flat spots, causing rumble. They seem to go for silly money now, I got mine for about £40 on ebay because it had bad bearings on the tonearm.

I knew this was a common fault, the 'bearings' aren't real bearings. The tonearm has some knife-shaped arms balanced in some rubber V-shaped blocks which split. I bought some replacement blocks for about a tenner from Sweden. It came with a really good cartridge too. Whole thing was nicotine stained to fuck but ultimately I was quids in! I'm in the process of building it a better plynth. I've got the primer and need to paint it properly.

[Malcy]

The start/stop buttons magically came to life this morning. Which was nice...

[buzby]

My guess was that it had possibly came loose during transit. I do believe it was just one of those things. He had messaged me back and was really stumped as to its whereabouts. It was underneath the cog bit just off the centre.

You are supposed to transport record decks with the belt and platter removed (or with the platter transport locking screw engaged, if it has one) for that reason (also to prevent possible damage to the bearing surfaces on the platter and spindle). You can see in this unboxing video that they usually come packaged separately.  It doesn't take much vertical movement of the platter to lift the belt off the motor pulley.

BTW, the problem you had with the Line/Phono switch on the back of the deck and having to crank the volume up on your amp when it was set to Phono - Line voltage (which is what your AV amp is expecting on it's 3.5mm jack input, presumably for an MP3 player) is 600-750 millivolts peak to peak. A Moving Magnet phono cartridge outputs 3-6 millivolts. That's why you could barely hear it, and why a preamp is required (which also does the RIAA frequency equalisation). When it's in the 'Line' position it's output is going through it's built-in preamp.

[NoSleep]

The mystery there was that the seller said he hadn't looked inside it to remove the belt so it wasn't him that had done so. I'd guess it had never been used by the seller.

[buzby]

The mystery there was that the seller said he hadn't looked inside it to remove the belt so it wasn't him that had done so. I'd guess it had never been used by the seller.

I suspect the belt had come off in transit through the platter being bounced around  The factory packing method usually has the belt in place around the pulley/drum under the platter (as in that unboxing video), so when assembling it all the purchaser needs to do after putting the platter on is reach into the access hole to pull the belt over the motor pulley.

[Malcy]

I suspect the belt had come off in transit through the platter being bounced around  The factory packing method usually has the belt in place around the pulley/drum under the platter (as in that unboxing video), so when assembling it all the purchaser needs to do after putting the platter on is reach into the access hole to pull the belt over the motor pulley.

Yeah this is what happened I think. I can't remember if the platter was separate from the deck when I opened the box.

The mystery there was that the seller said he hadn't looked inside it to remove the belt so it wasn't him that had done so. I'd guess it had never been used by the seller.

I had messaged the seller before bidding asking how it had sounded when he used it. Said he had always had a good sound out of it connected to whatever it was he was using so it had definitely been used.

[lipsink]

I think we're gonna go for the Crosley C100. Anyone have this or reckon it's good?

https://www.amazon.com/Crosley-C100A-SI-Turntable-Adjustable-Counterweight/dp/B099NXVPNL?th=1

Apparently a Belt Drive has better sound quality than the Direct Drive too?