Your most profound film volte-face

[Small Man Big Horse]

The Burton Batmans I felt even at the time were viewed as an exercise in style moreso than amazingly well put together films, perhaps part of the reason they were viewed so positively contrasting with a lot of blockbusters of the era?

I think you're right, plus it was the first time in ages someone had pulled off a decent superhero film as the majority* in the eighties were enormous piles of shite.




*Discounting Superman II, Superman III and Misfits Of Science.

[greenman]

The 80's was also a time were quite tightly plotted blockbusters tended to dominate so Burton's film was obviously something quite different to that, the same kind of era were films like Big Trouble In Little China or Highlander which went in for a good deal of style for its own sake were building up VHS followings as well.

[Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth]

I've seen Batman Returns a good few times, but couldn't for the life of say what the plot is. Something about kidnapped children and penguins with missiles.

[chveik]

Batman Returns is good fun. no grimdark shit or fake jolly films with always the same laboured jokes we have these days

[Blumf]

The '89 Batman film was a big contrast with the 60's high-camp that most people were familiar with. Only comic book nerds knew about the Dark Knight stuff, so Burton's version was quite a jolt, even if it was fairly campy compared to the contemporary comics.

[Brundle-Fly]

The Life Aquatic With Steve Zissou (2004). I watched it at the cinema a movie theater (with my then GF) on my one and only visit to New York.  The relationship was going through some serious issues but for some reason this film spiritually reconciled us. Momentarily, I might add. We broke up soon after that holiday but together, we still shared that beautiful Wes Anderson experience.

Revisted it a few years later. Pile of old wank. Context, eh?

[greenman]

Not sure I want to rewatch Rushmore now which I remember liking a lot at the time.

[Armin Meiwes]

Rushmore holds up! (imo) Saw it a couple of years ago and still loved it.

[Egyptian Feast]

I loved Rushmore the first time, but the second watch may have been soured by the company at the time, who hated it from the first frame. It was like watching The Hudsucker Proxy with kittens. In fairness to my friend, Max is a cunt, so maybe he would've got on my tits anyway the second time.

I caught the last hour of 1989 Batman a few years back and was very sorry to see it again. Nicholson was a pain in the arse, especially now I was aware (after seeing an interview with his dealer on a Graham Norton doc about showbiz sleaze) that he'd been up every night doing coke with that expression on his face. I don't reckon it's aged too well, but the follow-up is still my second favourite Batman movie.

I'd excitedly queued up to see it with a mate on the first night and loved it then, even though it seemed a letdown to most of the audience after all the hype (which had been inescapable the whole summer of '89, and was ultimately responsible for getting me into Prince). I remember the amount of middle aged men bitching about it on the way out, a few of whom were expecting it to be like the original and in fairness best Batman movie. They would probably have preferred something like Batman And Robin, which I never saw at the time but caught about 20 minutes of a while back and didn't mind so much. It was fairly shit, but it mainly made me think Empire readers don't watch enough films if they think that's the worst film ever made. I've seen far worse shit than that, some of which has been award-winning shit. Joel Schumacher may be a hack
but I like more of his films than Christopher Nolan's, to be honest.

Biggest volte face I've ever had was with Gladiator. When I saw it in the cinema, I thought it was a disappointment, but gave it the benefit of the doubt. When I watched it again on video, I thought it was shit. I told someone this a while after when they suggested putting the DVD on and somehow they convinced me to give it another go. I'm glad they did, because this time I realised it is fucking shit and I really do not have to give it another chance. It's Ralphie's favourite movie, that's enough for me, although if I'm flicking around I may watch the last few minutes to see if that bloke in the pub was right about Russell Crowe resting his head on a sand coloured pillow when he dies. Spoiler. I would've loved that sequel Nick Cave wrote, so I'm not surprised they didn't make it, the useless cunts.

[magval]

The '89 Batman film was a big contrast with the 60's high-camp that most people were familiar with. Only comic book nerds knew about the Dark Knight stuff, so Burton's version was quite a jolt, even if it was fairly campy compared to the contemporary comics.

Much more in common with the 1960s camp than the contemporary comics, I think. The museum Prince scene is a good example. I've heard people say this for years, that Tim Burton's films are dark. Aye, visually they're dark, as in they're not bright. That's about it.

Batman Forever is a much better stab at dealing with Batman's mental state, and it wears its influence from the fucking COMIC BOOKS that inspired it with pride. It's the best one til Begins came along.

[SavageHedgehog]

Not sure I want to rewatch Rushmore now which I remember liking a lot at the time.

I'm in the same boat as it's the only Anderson film I've ever had any enthusiasm for (never saw Bottle Rocket). I suspect it wasn't that different to his later films, I was just younger and/or his style was fresher to me.

[samadriel]

Idiocracy. First time I watched, one of the funniest films I'd ever seen. The second time I watched it, possibly paying a bit more attention, still funny but I couldn't help but find the film's message deeply suspect.

The main thing is that Judge seems to be positing stupidity as an inherited genetic trait, which is a pretty dodgy avenue to go down as it crosses into eugenics territory. Never once does the film even attempt to touch on any of the reasons why people might be getting stupider(e.g. societal, educational, financial), and doesn't seem to have any interest in exploring that aspect. it ends up feeling shallow and narrow-minded as a result.

It's frustrating as well, because it has the potential to be a genuinely scathing satire, but it's aimed at all the wrong targets. In many ways it feels like we're heading closer to the world of the film every day, but there are numerous reasons for that other than "stupid people breed too much".

I might've liked Idiocracy more of it didn't treat the viewer like one of the idiot generation. That fucking narration! "There was a movie called Ass. And that's all it was. An ass. For two hours." I CAN TELL, YOU'RE SHOWING IT ON THE FUCKING SCREEN.

[Armin Meiwes]

Tbf to Burton you can certainly see the difference between when he's under heavy studio influence (Batman) and given totally free rein for making them so money on the first one (Batman Returns).

[colacentral]

It was never among my all time faves, but I used to think Ronin was a pretty darn good action thriller. I watched it again recently, however and thought it was kind of terrible. It seemed like a vanity project for De Niro and the celebrated car chases were an incoherent mess.

I watched it for the first time recently having thought for years it was this cult classic, must-see thriller. Fucking dog shit and as 90s as it gets. I wish it was fresher in my memory so I could fully dissect everything wrong with it; I remember Sean Bean's character being terrible but not much else. Some nonsensical plotting too. You're right about it being a Deniro vanity project I think - it's essentially Decker.

[Jim Bob]

Graham Norton doc about showbiz sleaze

What's this?  I've had a look at Norton's filmography and I can't see what it could possibly be.

[Egyptian Feast]

It was from around the early 00s when he was still on Channel 4. It was a mix of stories about rock n' roll and Hollywood. I can only remember the bit about Nicholson and the section on GG Allin where Norton concluded that micropenis anxiety was the source of GG's outlandish behaviour. I'm pretty sure it had 'Babylon' in the title.

There's a small chance I have it somewhere on my hard drive, I'll let you know if I find it.

[Jim Bob]

It was from around the early 00s when he was still on Channel 4. It was a mix of stories about rock n' roll and Hollywood. I can only remember the bit about Nicholson and the section on GG Allin where Norton concluded that micropenis anxiety was the source of GG's outlandish behaviour. I'm pretty sure it had 'Babylon' in the title.

There's a small chance I have it somewhere on my hard drive, I'll let you know if I find it.

I just looked it up (based upon the word 'Babylon') and it's called Rock Babylon.  I cannae find a copy online though, so if you are able to find it and upload it, it would be greatly appreciated.

[Egyptian Feast]

Sorry Jim Bob, I'm afraid I don't seem to have it on my hard drive. It must've been something I taped at the time, but never found again on UK Nova. There's a single clip from it on YouTube, but it's about Boyd Rice. I'd forgotten that cunt was on it. I'm surprised someone hasn't uploaded it by now.

[Jim Bob]

Sorry Jim Bob, I'm afraid I don't seem to have it on my hard drive. It must've been something I taped at the time, but never found again on UK Nova. There's a single clip from it on YouTube, but it's about Boyd Rice. I'd forgotten that cunt was on it. I'm surprised someone hasn't uploaded it by now.

Ah well.  Thanks for looking anyway.

[holyzombiejesus]

I'm too scared to watch Lost in Translation ever again as I'm pretty sure I'll fucking hate it.

[Small Man Big Horse]

I'm too scared to watch Lost in Translation ever again as I'm pretty sure I'll fucking hate it.

Ha, yeah. I was newly loved up and in the best of moods when I watched it at the cinema but given how nearly everyone I know seems to hate it these days I have a feeling I won't respond well to a second viewing.

[Armin Meiwes]

Funnily enough only watched it a couple of weeks ago and still enjoyed it. FIrst time I saw it I was really blown away, felt really fresh and different, and not surprisingly I didn't get that feeling this time, but still a decent film imo.

[dissolute ocelot]

Robert Altman's Short Cuts impressed me as a pretentious youth, but having seen it again, it's just a really horrible film about unlikable people doing nasty things in an unbelievable way, with a stupid ending; a lot of the scenes are more like drama-school exercises than portrayals of real life. Altman has a real misanthropic side to him, although some of his films manage to have genuine affection for characters, and others like McCabe and Mrs Miller link their misanthropy to a wider message (there, about the corruption of the West/America). Other people have slated Naked and American Beauty for a worldview that seems profound to the young and simplistic to the slightly older, so it's probably the same thing (I still love Naked but more for performance and writing/direction and its stylisation than for authenticity - Katrin Cartlidge is hilarious; in contrast I like Secrets and Lies a lot more now than at the time, which is a more subtle and nuanced Leigh film).

Does anybody have anything good to say about Oliver Stone's JFK these days?

[dissolute ocelot]

I'm too scared to watch Lost in Translation ever again as I'm pretty sure I'll fucking hate it.

I watched it recently and really enjoyed it, although for slightly different reasons than before - probably more the comedy than the pathos. Anna Faris is great, for instance, as of course is Bill Murray. And it's obviously kind of autobiographical (both literally and metaphorically), as well as being an interesting film about Alienation in Late Capitalism^TM, all of which I picked up more this time. It may or may not help that I rewatched it shortly after Coppola's The Beguiled, which is truly terrible (with some of the worst accents in motion picture history).

[Gulftastic]

Does anybody have anything good to say about Oliver Stone's JFK these days?

I'll stick up for it. Load of nonsense it may be, it has some good stuff in there. The Donald Sutherland bit is terrific viewing.

[Jim Bob]

Does anybody have anything good to say about Oliver Stone's JFK these days?

There's one fella who likes it that I know of.  If you squint really hard and look towards the far end of the room, you'll see him.  Over there; towards the back and to the left.  Back and to the left.

[QDRPHNC]

I still like JFK. Great piece of filmmaking.

[Puce Moment]

Yeah, big fan of JFK even though it's largely nonsense. Pesci is especially well cast and does a great performance. The courtroom scenes are unparalleled, in my opinion.

[Brundle-Fly]

I wonder how Being John Malkovich (1999) stands up now. Loved it at the time.

[GoblinAhFuckScary]

BLADE RUNNER.

Big into this as a teenager, to the point I had these amazing dreams of flying about in a Spinner. Recent re-watches gives me the impression that the film is little more than eye-candy and whatever it's supposed to be saying about the nature of humanity is half-baked at best. Scott's strength seem to be in world-building, where the film really does excel in however.

Worst bit is when Sean Young's character is basically sexually assaulted by Harisson Ford. I was utterly shocked on rewatching. She clearly tries to leave, repeatedly says no, and he physically forces himself on her with this grim 'sexy' saxophone track. Yuck