Your most profound film volte-face

[Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth]

I'd have just smacked him in the mouth, tied him up, put him in the trunk of the car and driven in blissful silence to their destination.

That's what Marvin would have done. Fuckin' A, he's the best.

[Endicott]

I'll submit Midnight Run.

Loved it as a younger man, watched it a lot, but on a rewatch? I found the improvised dialogue between De Niro and Grodin irritating, like neither of them really wanted to do it but both wanted to prove what great actors they were. Grodin's entire character just made me feel annoyed, like if I was De Niro I'd have just smacked him in the mouth, tied him up, put him in the trunk of the car and driven in blissful silence to their destination.

That certainly would have been a shit film. Fuck you Lisa, you're too quick on the draw!

I think it holds up very well, I re-watch fairly regularly. Might go so far as to call it a stone cold classic.

[Mister Six]

FUN FACT: In the original script, that character was Abner Ravenwood (Marion's Father and Indy's mentor, as established in Raiders of the Lost Ark).  In my mind, he still is.

I don't know if I would hate that more. On the one hand, it would make that character less random and throwaway, and give less of a sense that Indy is just another in a long line of dudes who pillage shit. On the other, it would make Crusade even more self-regarding and self-referential, as well as adding an uncomfortable Freudian angle to Marion shacking up with Indy!

Don't take this as a recommendation, but I gave Crystal Skull another shot a couple of years ago, really quite enjoyed it and wasn't sure why I disliked it so much back in 2008. I get why a lot of other people dislike it, but most of the stuff people hate in it isn't anything that bothers me tremendously.

I do hope that if I ever watch it again, I'll be able to ignore the bad stuff and just enjoy the good, but so much of it (the magic fridge, Kate Capshaw looking stoned the whole time, Shia Lebeouf being the least convincing tough-guy greaser ever, Indy becoming a passenger in his own film as his ever-growing entourage eats up the screentime, the awful CGI and even worse sets, that fucking rubber anaconda) is so dismal that I'll feel like I'm picking at the curate's egg rather than just tossing it in a bin and ordering a nice korma instead.

Great post, Mister Six. Re: Footnote 4, perhaps I'm remembering it wrong, but I think Indy doesn't become immortal at the end of Crusade because he leaves the tomb. Same with his dad, who dies between films. The catch in the immortality deal is that you have to stay there forever guarding the grail, which is why the gaff collapses when Alison Doody tries to make off with it.

Cheers, yeah, I mentioned that - but in that case what's the fucking point? Just bury in the big canyon, which is what ends up happening anyway. Why bother to make a bunch of elaborate traps and illusions[nb]That "invisible" painted walkway is awesome, but of course falls apart the moment the camera shows it from outside Indy's POV, as the painting shifts around to accommodate the viewer, except for that one shot where the camera dollies to the side.[/nb] just to get another guy to stand there guarding it forever? Nobody would have even known it was there if they hadn't made a bunch of maps and clues!

[Jim Bob]

Lots of on point views on the Indiana Jones movies within this thread.  I find myself agreeing with much of what's been said.

Raiders is absolutely perfect though.

Damn straight.  It's the greatest movie of all time, as far as I'm concerned.  There's nowt finer popcorn flick out there

I do hope that if I ever watch it again, I'll be able to ignore the bad stuff and just enjoy the good, but so much of it (the magic fridge, Kate Capshaw looking stoned the whole time...

Karen Allen, actually.

I keep meaning to create a thread for the discarded script that Frank Darabont wrote for Indy 4.  I read it recently and in a lot of ways, it's even worse than what we eventually ended up with, but Marion is handled so much better and actually feels like the same character from Raiders of the Lost Ark.

[Mister Six]

Ooh, please do.

[Hey, Punk!]

The Big Lebowski, I absolutely adored it as a 14 year old and it probably started my interest in film. Watched it last year and felt a weird sense throughout that it wasn't the film I watched back then, it felt empty and none of the lines hit me like they did then. I think it's been ruined by the image my half-child brain made out of what I saw.

The film feels hollow now, and after watching Hail Caesar a few months ago and hating it, I just don't think I like the Coen brothers anymore.

[Famous Mortimer]

That certainly would have been a shit film. Fuck you Lisa, you're too quick on the draw!

I think it holds up very well, I re-watch fairly regularly. Might go so far as to call it a stone cold classic.

I was surprised when I had that reaction to it, too.

[Puce Moment]

The Big Lebowski, I absolutely adored it as a 14 year old and it probably started my interest in film. Watched it last year and felt a weird sense throughout that it wasn't the film I watched back then, it felt empty and none of the lines hit me like they did then. I think it's been ruined by the image my half-child brain made out of what I saw.

The film feels hollow now, and after watching Hail Caesar a few months ago and hating it, I just don't think I like the Coen brothers anymore.

Welcome. We've been waiting for you.

I do think Blood Simple and Barton Fink are good films. NCFOM and Miller's Crossing are very good films. If they just made those and maybe even Raising Arizona and TMWWT they would be top tier in my opinion.

That's a lot if really good films though. Fuck, maybe I like them after all.

[Petey Pate]

Idiocracy. First time I watched, one of the funniest films I'd ever seen. The second time I watched it, possibly paying a bit more attention, still funny but I couldn't help but find the film's message deeply suspect.

The main thing is that Judge seems to be positing stupidity as an inherited genetic trait, which is a pretty dodgy avenue to go down as it crosses into eugenics territory. Never once does the film even attempt to touch on any of the reasons why people might be getting stupider(e.g. societal, educational, financial), and doesn't seem to have any interest in exploring that aspect. it ends up feeling shallow and narrow-minded as a result.

It's frustrating as well, because it has the potential to be a genuinely scathing satire, but it's aimed at all the wrong targets. In many ways it feels like we're heading closer to the world of the film every day, but there are numerous reasons for that other than "stupid people breed too much".

I think studio interference in part killed the impact of Idiocracy (certain things like the narration seem tacked on) but you're right that the central message uncomfortably borders on pro-eugenics. This Turkish YouTuber/podcaster did a decent video about this.

https://youtu.be/ptB5hJThHwc

There are some funny moments, and I like the balliness of Judge to use real corporate names and brands (which is why Fox did as little as they could to promote it), but it's a very flawed film despite its cult status.

[Jumblegraws]

Casper. As in the live-action Casper the Friendly Ghost movie. I was seven when the film came out and for some reason I was so excited for it. Consumed as much of the existing Casper franchise as I could and had dreams about meeting the Ghostly Trio. When I finally saw it, it really delivered and I also got to nurture the crush I'd developed for Christina Ricci following The Addams Family Values. It didn't get any better than this.

A couple of years later I found the film incredibly dull, couldn't imagine ever having been enthusiastic about it. I distinctly remember being at some family friendly restaurant where the film was playing in a TV lounge and thinking this was an insultingly-naff choice.

[Puce Moment]

OK guys - this thread has influenced me to think about lots of films I think I love but if I rewatched them I know I would probably dislike. Some of them have even been mentioned here - stuff like Magnolia and Clerks. I am terrified to watch Rushmore or La Haine in case they turn out to not be the works of genius I previously assumed they were.

However, now I am thinking about films I really hated or strongly disliked that I saw in the 90s to see if they are actually quite good. I am going with some films that others seem to like a lot, so I am starting with The Exorcist. Wish me luck. I really want to like it.

[SavageHedgehog]

Casper. As in the live-action Casper the Friendly Ghost movie. I was seven when the film came out and for some reason I was so excited for it. Consumed as much of the existing Casper franchise as I could and had dreams about meeting the Ghostly Trio. When I finally saw it, it really delivered and I also got to nurture the crush I'd developed for Christina Ricci following The Addams Family Values. It didn't get any better than this.

A couple of years later I found the film incredibly dull, couldn't imagine ever having been enthusiastic about it. I distinctly remember being at some family friendly restaurant where the film was playing in a TV lounge and thinking this was an insultingly-naff choice.

This was the first film I saw in the cinema and thought "I don't like this". Previous films I had seen in the cinema include Mr Nanny and Super Mario Bros. I had disliked some films I'd seen on TV (some beloved by my generation like Hook) but my family would offer give a running commentary on films they didn't like so this might have been the first time I decided I didn't like something for myself. The kicker is I chose this over the "uncool" Power Rangers movie, which I'm sure I would have enjoyed.

A few years ago a critic I read did a "Summer of 95" retrospective, which prompted me to revisit Casper on YouTube. I thought it was sort of OK now, though a bit baffling; language is a little too salty and there are too many legal discussions for young kids, and the whole thing explaining how Casper died is rather unpalatable. They also straight up steal the "living impaired" gag from The Simpsons.