Author Topic: Badly positioned buttons  (Read 1417 times)

Badly positioned buttons
« on: May 21, 2020, 10:13:56 AM »
The Master System having the pause button on the console itself seems like a pretty obvious one.

Z was kinda weirdly positioned on the gamecube, why not have two of them?

The analogue nub on the PSP always felt like the afterthought that it was, I guess it's good that it was there at least.

Re: Badly positioned buttons
« Reply #1 on: May 21, 2020, 10:22:42 AM »
The Dreamcast controller seemed to have every button in ever-so-slightly the wrong place. A horribly uncomfortable controller.

Also, Sony need to be having words with themselves about that left analogue stick.

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Re: Badly positioned buttons
« Reply #2 on: May 21, 2020, 10:35:43 AM »
The Dreamcast controller seemed to have every button in ever-so-slightly the wrong place. A horribly uncomfortable controller.

Seemed to be designed with the tiny handed in mind. That recess underneath always would always retain heat and make your fingers sweaty.

Quote
Also, Sony need to be having words with themselves about that left analogue stick.

I'm absolutely fine with the symmetrical sticks (especially good for FPS, or movement whilst changing the POV dynamically), what's the issue? Just bought a PS4 controller to use on my computer for emulations and like the idea of the two new analog triggers (L2 & R2); hopefully useful for emulating the triggers on the DC and N64.

Re: Badly positioned buttons
« Reply #3 on: May 21, 2020, 10:36:18 AM »
Original Xbox with its black and white buttons. Obviously realised they were shit and binned them for the 360.

Agreed that the the Dreamcast controller was a bit shit, as well as being awkward, there weren't really enough buttons.

The N64"s wild fever dream of a controller with its central prong was a very awkward affair.

Re: Badly positioned buttons
« Reply #4 on: May 21, 2020, 10:38:34 AM »
The Jaguar's keypad looked super awkward, don't know if worked better in practice.

Re: Badly positioned buttons
« Reply #5 on: May 21, 2020, 12:58:36 PM »
I'm absolutely fine with the symmetrical sticks (especially good for FPS, or movement whilst changing the POV dynamically), what's the issue? Just bought a PS4 controller to use on my computer for emulations and like the idea of the two new analog triggers (L2 & R2); hopefully useful for emulating the triggers on the DC and N64.

The natural resting position for your thumb is where the d-pad is on a PlayStation controller. Probably wouldn't mind it so much if Microsoft and Nintendo hadn't put their analogue sticks in that position for the past ~20 years, but they did.

The N64"s wild fever dream of a controller with its central prong was a very awkward affair.

I found it fine. Barely anything used the left prong at all. Wouldn't go back to it now, mind.

The Jaguar's keypad looked super awkward, don't know if worked better in practice.

No, it was horrible. The keys are hard to press and they feel even worse with the plastic overlays on them. The whole controller was crap though. The most shocking thing about the Jaguar is how close it feels in terms of design and manufacture to the consoles they were making ~15 years earlier. The cheap, scratchy plastic, the 9-pin controller connector, the buttons that scrape the controller housing when you press them, the layout of the game boxes and manuals, you get the same PSU and RF adapter that shipped with the 7800 and 2600 Jr. The future has never felt so utterly ancient.

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Re: Badly positioned buttons
« Reply #6 on: May 21, 2020, 01:00:18 PM »
Worst tribute act ever.

Re: Badly positioned buttons
« Reply #7 on: May 21, 2020, 01:05:45 PM »
I don't know why the buttons on arcade sticks are so huge, it's like they're made for big shovel handed gorillas.

The buttons on a keybaord are all fingertip size and right next to each other and I never have a problem with that.
Why they gotta be so huge and miles apart?

Agreed about the playstation analogue sticks, never got on with those. Forever banging my thumbs together. The 360 pad feels way more natural.

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Re: Badly positioned buttons
« Reply #8 on: May 21, 2020, 01:38:26 PM »
The natural resting position for your thumb is where the d-pad is on a PlayStation controller. Probably wouldn't mind it so much if Microsoft and Nintendo hadn't put their analogue sticks in that position for the past ~20 years, but they did.

For the past 20 years I've been using PS controllers by and large and like the analog sticks just as they are; never had the problem of getting used to another arrangement. I find the placement of a single analog controller on other gamepads odd; in the wrong place or on the wrong side and not enough of them; always felt spoilt for choice with the PS controllers. And I find the relative positions of the d-pad, controllers and the analog sticks comfortable regarding the rotation of the thumb from one to the other; it's the start and select buttons that were always a bit awkward and maybe the triggers should be set down further (the bottom two are in a comfortable position, though). 

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Re: Badly positioned buttons
« Reply #9 on: May 21, 2020, 01:56:17 PM »
Agreed about the playstation analogue sticks, never got on with those. Forever banging my thumbs together. The 360 pad feels way more natural.

I have the the pads of my thumbs on the top of the analog controllers (no chance of the thumbs even touching one another), the two "legs" of the ps controller in the centre of my palms, my index fingers on the triggers and my other fingers wrapped around the legs. Can't imagine clutching it as you must have been doing; everything is at my fingertips; you must have had your knuckles on the controls. Just what you must have been used to with the (to me) ridiculously bulky xbox controller.

Re: Badly positioned buttons
« Reply #10 on: May 21, 2020, 02:06:36 PM »
I'm just remembering playing COD at a friends house and I found the tops of the analogue sticks didn't really have enough grip and my thumbs would eventually slip and meet in the middle and knock together when I was getting into the game and whacking the sticks about.

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Re: Badly positioned buttons
« Reply #11 on: May 21, 2020, 02:14:51 PM »
I'm just remembering playing COD at a friends house and I found the tops of the analogue sticks didn't really have enough grip and my thumbs would eventually slip and meet in the middle and knock together when I was getting into the game and whacking the sticks about.

Maybe he had worn off the matt rubber finish on the top of the analog controllers (or picked it off like my nephew felt compelled to do); they're hard to slip over, even touched lightly, and if you're gripping down on them (aside from pressing the secret L3 and R3 buttons) your thumbs are not going anywhere.

Re: Badly positioned buttons
« Reply #12 on: May 21, 2020, 02:17:32 PM »
Yup, the N64 controller was terrible. Using the central prong made the casing wear a groove into the side of my index finger (not quite bleeding edge tech, but definitely bruised). I don't know why they didn't swap the stick and D-pad around, since nearly everything used the stick anyway. Credit to Nintendo for blazing the trail, but it was shite.

Agreed about the playstation analogue sticks, never got on with those. Forever banging my thumbs together.
How do you manage that? I agree they're not all that comfortable to use (I assume someone at Sony prizes the fearful iconic symmetry of the design over ergnomics) but that seems physically impossible.

I've long thought someone should make some sort of customisable controller, so you could swap the sticks and face buttons around to whatever configuration is most comfortable for the game you're playing. I expect there are a lot of reasons that wouldn't work though.

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Re: Badly positioned buttons
« Reply #13 on: May 21, 2020, 02:22:38 PM »
Yeah, I transitioned from the 360 to the PS4 and the placement of the sticks has never bothered me one bit.

What did bother me - and what made me go back to PlayStation - was the new shoulder buttons for the XBone, which were uncomfortably raised and bulky and felt like I had to dislocate my reasonably sized fingers to press them. Apparently I'd been holding the controllers "wrongly" by resting the palm bits against my, er, palms instead of tilting the controller so the centre of gravity was towards the front of the controller and it rested against my fingers, or something. I dunno. Stupid, shit design and I haven't looked back.

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Re: Badly positioned buttons
« Reply #14 on: May 21, 2020, 02:23:10 PM »
Also having the buttons all the same colour on the Switch is making the QTE bits of Deadly Premonition really difficult for me.

Re: Badly positioned buttons
« Reply #15 on: May 21, 2020, 02:31:20 PM »
The lack of any casing around the triggers on the PS4 controller means they tend to get pressed by accident if you happen to nudge the controller when it's resting on a surface. Bit of a niche problem, but it's led to us accidentally skipping through videos way too many times.

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Re: Badly positioned buttons
« Reply #16 on: May 21, 2020, 02:42:13 PM »
I do like how the playstation controller can be placed on a table and operated and can work equally well positioned on your thigh, but I see what you mean about the PS4 controllers L2 & R2 triggers. But sliding mine about on a mouse pad or my lap here isn't causing the triggers to accidentally operate (I'd have to push down fairly hard and maybe point it forward a bit to get an angle.

Re: Badly positioned buttons
« Reply #17 on: May 21, 2020, 03:04:30 PM »
We tend to have it resting on the sofa when we're watching something. The nearest table is all the way across the room (a gargantuan four feet away!) and I'm a lazy, lazy sod.

Re: Badly positioned buttons
« Reply #18 on: May 21, 2020, 07:28:07 PM »
RE the PlayStation analogue sticks, isn't this mainly an issue with the PS3?

The backlash to totally changing the controller (which should've been obvious considering how many people had never used another controller) resulted in a panic switch to a model that was arguably outdated by the time the PS2 came out. I haven't used a PS4 much but the controller seemed like a significant improvement.

Good shout RE the black and white buttons on the original xbox, forgot all about them.




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Re: Badly positioned buttons
« Reply #19 on: May 22, 2020, 02:27:06 AM »
If there's one thing I've learned via this thread, then it's that a lot of people's fingers are coated in chip fat.

Re: Badly positioned buttons
« Reply #20 on: May 22, 2020, 02:55:13 AM »
There needs to be a lock on controller trigger buttons. The slightest breeze and my xbox is suddenly fast forwarding or rewinding. This happens every time. And currently that is every single day.

Re: Badly positioned buttons
« Reply #21 on: May 22, 2020, 10:58:15 AM »
It'd be an easy fix in their video playing software to just give the triggers a huge dead zone until they're pressed 50 or 75% in or something.
It does seem like a weird decision to have anything bound to the shoulder buttons or triggers, I know it makes sense as it's where you'd expect to find fast forward and rewind, but like you say, that's the sort of thing that's gonna get knocked by accident when the controller is being treat like a remote and chucked on a sofa.

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Re: Badly positioned buttons
« Reply #22 on: May 22, 2020, 02:38:17 PM »
The Dreamcast controller once carved my palm open

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Re: Badly positioned buttons
« Reply #23 on: May 22, 2020, 03:07:05 PM »
There needs to be a lock on controller trigger buttons. The slightest breeze and my xbox is suddenly fast forwarding or rewinding. This happens every time. And currently that is every single day.

Yes, that is very annoying. I was happy when my new TV came with a remote that just automatically works for controlling the XB too.

I think both the PS and XB controllers are fine, just the XB feels slightly more comfortable and natural to me, and a little bit more modern. Really, the prominence of the dpad on the PS controller is still a holdover from the 8-bit era. It is perhaps telling that Microsoft have been doing a bit more trailblazing in that department, what with their accessibility controller and such.

The Dreamcast controller once carved my palm open

I can still remember the corners of my Master System controller leaving sore spots on my hands from particularly heavy Bomber Raid sessions.

Re: Badly positioned buttons
« Reply #24 on: May 22, 2020, 03:27:34 PM »
The Dreamcast controller once carved my palm open

Ouch, how did that happen?

Not as severe, but I lost a fair bit of thumb skin from playing Marvel Vs Capcom 2

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Re: Badly positioned buttons
« Reply #25 on: May 22, 2020, 03:54:45 PM »
The minus button on the left joycon of a Switch is a bag of shit. Awkward shape to press unless you use your thumbnail, and very easy to nudge the left analogue stick while doing so. You can remap the buttons now, so I did try swapping the minus button with the capture button, which I never use, but that's even worse, because you have to alter your grip just to press it.

Re: Badly positioned buttons
« Reply #26 on: May 22, 2020, 03:59:38 PM »
Why were the NES/Master System controllers rectangular? It's not like designers back then didn't know about corners being sharp.

NoSleep

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Re: Badly positioned buttons
« Reply #27 on: May 22, 2020, 04:01:34 PM »
The Dreamcast controller once carved my palm open

Never approach it from behind.

Elderly Sumo Prophecy

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Re: Badly positioned buttons
« Reply #28 on: May 22, 2020, 04:04:19 PM »
The lack of any casing around the triggers on the PS4 controller means they tend to get pressed by accident if you happen to nudge the controller when it's resting on a surface. Bit of a niche problem, but it's led to us accidentally skipping through videos way too many times.

That's even affected the design of some of the streaming apps. On the PS4 they'll disable the triggers so they don't do anything, whereas on the Xbox they'll fast forward through the video.

Re: Badly positioned buttons
« Reply #29 on: May 22, 2020, 04:15:02 PM »
For the past 20 years I've been using PS controllers by and large and like the analog sticks just as they are; never had the problem of getting used to another arrangement. I find the placement of a single analog controller on other gamepads odd; in the wrong place or on the wrong side and not enough of them; always felt spoilt for choice with the PS controllers. And I find the relative positions of the d-pad, controllers and the analog sticks comfortable regarding the rotation of the thumb from one to the other; it's the start and select buttons that were always a bit awkward and maybe the triggers should be set down further (the bottom two are in a comfortable position, though).

May I ask if you have big hands? I have big hands with long fingers (and a double-jointed thumb) I find it a less comfortable resting position and also on the rare occasion one needs both sticks, my thumbs crash into each other.

It's definitely something that I think lets playstation's down.


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