Author Topic: Badly positioned buttons  (Read 1416 times)

Re: Badly positioned buttons
« Reply #30 on: May 22, 2020, 04:37:15 PM »
What sort of bizarre Stretch Armstrong style spider hands have you freaks got?

Elderly Sumo Prophecy

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Re: Badly positioned buttons
« Reply #31 on: May 22, 2020, 05:01:58 PM »
Inverse Beadle hand

NoSleep

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Re: Badly positioned buttons
« Reply #32 on: May 22, 2020, 05:12:31 PM »
May I ask if you have big hands? I have big hands with long fingers (and a double-jointed thumb) I find it a less comfortable resting position and also on the rare occasion one needs both sticks, my thumbs crash into each other.

It's definitely something that I think lets playstation's down.

Hasn't let them down much over 24 years.

I don't know if my hands are big or small; maybe medium sized. 7.375" from wrist to tip of middle finger, palm 3.25" wide. This picture looks similar to how I hold the controller:



While I was looking for that picture I came across this alternative controller for the N64, a Kickstarter funded project from 3 years ago. Sensible:


Re: Badly positioned buttons
« Reply #33 on: May 22, 2020, 05:25:07 PM »
I don't remember having much of a problem with the PS1-3 controllers, but they do feel bizarre now that I'm used to the PS4 version. Everything is in basically the same position, but it's all just a bit off.

Re: Badly positioned buttons
« Reply #34 on: May 22, 2020, 05:31:03 PM »
Why were the NES/Master System controllers rectangular? It's not like designers back then didn't know about corners being sharp.

I'm not sure they were ever designed to be held by human beings.

A case in point; Famicom, SG1000 II, Mark III and first gen Master System controllers had the cables coming out of the side of the controller;



Absolute state of some of these controllers;

https://nintendosegajapan.com/2015/12/06/nintendo-and-segas-8-bit-controller-rivalry/

That first-gen Famicom pad with the square rubber buttons is pure AIDS.

Re: Badly positioned buttons
« Reply #35 on: May 22, 2020, 06:11:33 PM »
My hand-span is about 25 cm, I'm not sure where my thumb officially starts or ends but it was around 7cm.

Re: Badly positioned buttons
« Reply #36 on: May 22, 2020, 06:14:28 PM »
I think the pause button on the machine itself is a copy of things like like the Atari where the colour/bw or difficulty switches were often borrowed for this purpose.

Jim Bob

  • (aka Right Said Brett)
Re: Badly positioned buttons
« Reply #37 on: May 22, 2020, 07:19:08 PM »
Bunch of fat handed twats in this thread.


Re: Badly positioned buttons
« Reply #38 on: May 22, 2020, 07:21:25 PM »
I think the pause button on the machine itself is a copy of things like like the Atari where the colour/bw or difficulty switches were often borrowed for this purpose.
Yeah, I mean, it kind of makes sense in that pause is more about the game state overall than a player command... way more sense than cables coming out of the sides of controllers (gonna assume that was a Nintendo cost saving measure others copied)

Re: Badly positioned buttons
« Reply #39 on: May 22, 2020, 07:30:45 PM »
Played Goldeneye last year on the 64 and I was amazed at how easily I played N64 as a child as the controller is fucking horrendous.

Re: Badly positioned buttons
« Reply #40 on: May 22, 2020, 07:46:31 PM »
Yeah, I mean, it kind of makes sense in that pause is more about the game state overall than a player command... way more sense than cables coming out of the sides of controllers (gonna assume that was a Nintendo cost saving measure others copied)

I wonder if it was to make it look neat when the controllers were docked on the Famicom? Being hardwired, you couldn't unplug them and put them out of sight like you could with the NES.



Obviously prioritising neatness over using the thing is getting the priorities wrong, but still. If it was a cost cutting measure I don't think they'd have included the mic in the second controller.

Re: Badly positioned buttons
« Reply #41 on: May 22, 2020, 07:51:35 PM »
Just remembered this piece of shit we had for the CDI.



I think it was novel in that left-handed people could turn it round and there was a switch to flip the buttons over accordingly. The lumps look pleasing but it was too long, the d-pad moulding was horrible enough you were forced to screw in the little joystick that I can't find a picture of and I don't think the buttons were much fun either.

They made another one, that looks like a third-party rip off of a megadrive controller, not tried it but just fucking look at it.

Jim Bob

  • (aka Right Said Brett)

Re: Badly positioned buttons
« Reply #43 on: May 22, 2020, 08:07:31 PM »
The family computer name has always lightly tickled me, given the amount of kids who must've used 'homework' as an excuse for getting a microcomputer. You try it with that and even the most technophobic dad is going to be like 'mate'.

Obviously there's a lot of ignoring the fact it was only released in Japan in my imagining, maybe the kids there did the same with the MSX or whatever.

FerriswheelBueller

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Re: Badly positioned buttons
« Reply #44 on: May 22, 2020, 08:10:26 PM »
For the past 20 years I've been using PS controllers by and large and like the analog sticks just as they are; never had the problem of getting used to another arrangement. I find the placement of a single analog controller on other gamepads odd; in the wrong place or on the wrong side and not enough of them; always felt spoilt for choice with the PS controllers. And I find the relative positions of the d-pad, controllers and the analog sticks comfortable regarding the rotation of the thumb from one to the other; it's the start and select buttons that were always a bit awkward and maybe the triggers should be set down further (the bottom two are in a comfortable position, though).

Absolutely agree with this. I’ve used a load of controllers over the years and the PS ones are fine.

Surprised no one has gone after the wii u and it’s clunky crock of shit telly controller thing. Awful piece of kit.

Re: Badly positioned buttons
« Reply #45 on: May 22, 2020, 08:20:05 PM »
Speaking of which, the Switch joycons look look like a carpal tunnel nightmare.

Jerzy Bondov

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Re: Badly positioned buttons
« Reply #46 on: May 22, 2020, 08:33:11 PM »
Yeah they’re not great. I got the Satisfye grip and it’s basically essential. Can’t believe I finished BotW without it and still have hands.

Re: Badly positioned buttons
« Reply #47 on: May 22, 2020, 09:48:46 PM »
I would recommend the Hori Split Pad Pro as a further improvement on the Satisfying. I've not used it since I got the Split Pad. So comfortable, buttons are amazing and the D-pad is the best available on the system.

Elderly Sumo Prophecy

  • In France we call it le bellend
Re: Badly positioned buttons
« Reply #48 on: May 22, 2020, 10:00:42 PM »
Theres no vibration on the Hori though. Wank.

Re: Badly positioned buttons
« Reply #49 on: May 22, 2020, 10:45:55 PM »
I wonder if it was to make it look neat when the controllers were docked on the Famicom? Being hardwired, you couldn't unplug them and put them out of sight like you could with the NES.



Obviously prioritising neatness over using the thing is getting the priorities wrong, but still. If it was a cost cutting measure I don't think they'd have included the mic in the second controller.
Neatness would be highly valued in tiny Japanese homes of the time so that'd make sense too, wasn't the famicom designed from a mindset that you pack it away and take it out when you need it? Extremely short cables and whatnot.

With Nintendo, it's rarely one thing though, wouldn't surprise me to discover the microphone was somehow cheaper than the two buttons it replaced, or the weren't confident A and B were enough and it was a futureproofing measure in case they needed extra input options.


Re: Badly positioned buttons
« Reply #50 on: May 23, 2020, 02:47:49 AM »
The strange thing about the Dreamcast pad is that it was basically a shit, pointy version of the lovely Saturn 3D pad. They really could just have reused this, with its analogue stick like a big comfy Rolo.



And those fucking Dreamcast memory cards with screens in them. Which also meant the wires had to come from the bottom of the pad, not the top. Overengineered garbage.

Elderly Sumo Prophecy

  • In France we call it le bellend
Re: Badly positioned buttons
« Reply #51 on: May 23, 2020, 03:06:53 AM »
Note the positioning of the analogue stick in the above photo.

Jim Bob

  • (aka Right Said Brett)
Re: Badly positioned buttons
« Reply #52 on: May 23, 2020, 03:08:32 AM »
And those fucking Dreamcast memory cards with screens in them. Which also meant the wires had to come from the bottom of the pad, not the top. Overengineered garbage.

The worst part about the VMU (memory card) was that once it was out of battery, whenever you booted up the Dreamcast, it would emit an high pitched digital shriek to inform you that the battery had indeed run out.  One imagines much like Alan Carr, every single damn time that you turned it on, there would be that awful accompanying ear piercing screech.  I never did replace the battery because I had zero interest in raising Tamagotchi knock-offs (or whatever crap afterthought any given developer had put on there), which meant that I had to hear that headache inducing screech a lot.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2020, 03:23:58 AM by Jim Bob »

Re: Badly positioned buttons
« Reply #53 on: May 23, 2020, 03:09:46 AM »
The worst part about the VMU (memory card) was that once it was out of battery, it would emit an ear piercing digital screech to inform you that the battery had run out, every single damn time that you turned the Dreamcast on.

yes, which amounted to 100% of all VMUs on the fucking planet with six months of the Dreamcast launch.

Re: Badly positioned buttons
« Reply #54 on: May 23, 2020, 10:29:42 AM »
The vmu used battery power while plugged into the device too, right? So you couldn't just keep it turned off



I'm pretty undecided on the Z buttons of the New 3DS, it'd be good to have a game that actually uses them to find out. The C nub thing too. Not sure why they bothered with either that late into the main machines life.



NoSleep

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Re: Badly positioned buttons
« Reply #55 on: May 23, 2020, 10:34:51 AM »
Most DS games offered a better alternative to using the touchscreen and the little stylus supplied if using it at all.

FerriswheelBueller

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Re: Badly positioned buttons
« Reply #56 on: May 23, 2020, 12:44:56 PM »
Well I liked the Dreamcast controller, especially the memory cards that came to life when you plugged them in which felt like magic to me at the time. So nyerr.

FerriswheelBueller

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Re: Badly positioned buttons
« Reply #57 on: May 23, 2020, 02:22:07 PM »
This thread forced me to go look at an old Dreamcast controller, which lead me to these console restoration videos which I find incredibly soothing for some reason. The gameboy advance cleanup is particularly satisfying.

There’s the Dreamcast controller anyway.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xDKCMrn2Ff0

Edit: and here’s the GBA https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=syrjT-HNnAE

Re: Badly positioned buttons
« Reply #58 on: May 23, 2020, 03:14:26 PM »
This thread forced me to go look at an old Dreamcast controller, which lead me to these console restoration videos which I find incredibly soothing for some reason. The gameboy advance cleanup is particularly satisfying.

There’s the Dreamcast controller anyway.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xDKCMrn2Ff0

Edit: and here’s the GBA https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=syrjT-HNnAE

I was thinking of trying to pick up a dreamcast, possibly one with a gubbed drive and swapping it out for a little board that takes an SD card and emulates the gdrom drive.

Re: Badly positioned buttons
« Reply #59 on: May 23, 2020, 03:30:50 PM »
I don't know why the buttons on arcade sticks are so huge, it's like they're made for big shovel handed gorillas.

The buttons on a keybaord are all fingertip size and right next to each other and I never have a problem with that.
Why they gotta be so huge and miles apart?

Sounds like you'd fare better with a HitBox:



Not having that about arcade buttons. Been using a fightstick for over a decade, I consider my hands to be average size, and I find standard Sanwa/Seimitsu 30mm buttons just fine.
Also, controller design peaked with the Japanese Sega Saturn pad:

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