Justice League - Snyder Cut to be released

[samadriel]

when did Snyder go from being reviled for Watchmen to being somewhat respected?

I think his meathead fans have been loyal since at least 300, if not Dawn of the Dead. They thought his version of Watchmen was TOTALLY BADASS, and Rorschach was a RAD DUDE OWNING THE LIBS.

[Custard]

TBF Burton's Bats killed people too, and Nolan's let Ra's Al Ghul die that time (if that counts). The problem lies in that Snyder's Batman murders EVERYONE in his way, and is a complete psychopath. And that's before you even get started on the branding people with a hot iron stuff!

Bats in (most of) the comics refuses to kill or use guns. So when Batfleck would go on mad killing sprees it just made it seem like Snyder didn't know the source material or the character at all

[Blumf]

should go the uber route

make an app for self employed crime-fighting entrepreneurs

democratise fighting crime

battapp

[willbo]

TBF Burton's Bats killed people too, and Nolan's let Ra's Al Ghul die that time (if that counts). The problem lies in that Snyder's Batman murders EVERYONE in his way, and is a complete psychopath. And that's before you even get started on the branding people with a hot iron stuff!

Bats in (most of) the comics refuses to kill or use guns. So when Batfleck would go on mad killing sprees it just made it seem like Snyder didn't know the source material or the character at all

I like crazy/OTT/Frank Miller versions of Batman. And Miller's wackier later Batman stuff is official source material, after all, even if it shouldn't really have been allowed to be.

[Custard]

Oh yeah, I think there's room for many different versions and adaptations, but Snyder's version just seemed to be a little bit TOO violent and revelling in it. Miller's is a good comparison as it does seem close to that version

I have the same issue with the trailer for Pattinson's new Batman, when he hits someone already on the floor repeatedly. I get that that's a young, less experienced version of the character, but he drops him then repeatedly punches him, while he's down. That's more The Punisher (who I also love)

Nolan's done the best version so far, I think. He had some angry moments, like smashing several goons' faces in after Gordon "dies", but he didn't come across as a complete psycho!

[Glebe]

TBF Burton's Bats killed people too, and Nolan's let Ra's Al Ghul die that time (if that counts).

Fair enough.

To be fair, the beating Bats gives the thug in The Batman teaser is fucking horrendous.

Snyder's forte is action sequences really. If you want a good, chunky, dynamic scrap, he's your man (person, sorry - sexist!).

[Custard]

There's a bit in All Star Batman and Robin, by Miller, when Bats purposely drives the Bat-Tank over a bunch of goons, squashing them to shit. It made me laugh loudly when I read it, but it's way too extreme and unnecessary

I guess I'm more a fan of the traditional version of the character. No guns, no killing, every life matters, etc

Doesn't mean that I don't find Batfleck hilarious to watch, though!

[The Culture Bunker]

It'd be nice to see a Batman film display the character's intelligence. There was a bit with the Flash in that Justice League film that went something like:

"What's your superpower?"
"I'm rich."

When his answer should have been "I'm the world's greatest detective you hyperactive scrote - how the fuck do you think I found you?" Though I suppose that's not strictly true, as if I remember right, he found him by stealing some stuff off Lex Luthor's computer.

[Custard]

Yeah, he saw some logos on Lex's computer!

I think Matt Reeves is trying to focus more on the detective side of the character this time round, but that trailer is a bit worrying

[Mister Six]

The idea behind it is sound. Bats can give up getting his head kicked in every night if he can manage to get a group of really strong people together to do it for him.

Except it kind of goes against the monomaniacal, obsessive and controlling aspects of Batman's character that have made him so compelling for 82 years.

TBH I don't really object to Snyder's "vision" getting screen time even if he totally doesn't get what makes most of these heroes (especially Superman) work, and even though his nihilistic Randian philosophy contradicts the whole appeal of supes in general.

If he'd just done his Superman (and maybe his Batman) for a few films and fucked off, same as Raimi on Spider-Man and Nolan/Burton/Schumacher on Batman, it would have been fine.

The problem was trying to build an entire mainstream-pleasing extended universe around his particular style of ugly, sleazy, violence-eroticising bilge.

The MCU gets a lot of slagging off for being a bit formulaic and squashing the more idiosyncratic sensibilities of its directors,[nb]Although that's gotten better since Ike Perlmutter got yeeted out of the franchise and Kevin Feige has been given more control.[/nb] but it's done an incredible job of creating a (mostly) cohesive, organic universe with diverse tones (within a specific palette, admittedly) and clearly defined characters.

A whole universe of murky blue-tinted Snyder scowls (remember, Jenkins' Wonder Woman was being routed down a similar path until BvS shat the bed and she was encouraged to lighten it up, and Suicide Squad was hacked to bits to make it shinier and wackier) and borderline monster "heroes" just isn't what most people want, and is dramatically inert.[nb]BvS presents us with a Superman and Batman who are both violent, vindictive, scary lunatics and a Wonder Woman who's cool with killing, even if her victim is basically the cave troll from LotR. Where's the contrast?[/nb]

It's the exec's fault, of course. Idiots who don't give a shit about cinema, who can't read anything but spreadsheets, and who only see Snyder as "CGI cinema blockbuster man" and Superman/Batman as "potential moneymaking IP" and don't know or care to see whether the particular sensibilities of these things match up.

[Mister Six]

I like crazy/OTT/Frank Miller versions of Batman. And Miller's wackier later Batman stuff is official source material, after all, even if it shouldn't really have been allowed to be.

Even TDKR Batman doesn't actually kill anyone, does he?

The thing is, these characters are elastic, and have been stretched before, but they ultimately return to their primary form because that's what works. People point to a handful of times that Batman killed in the comics, but those are the exceptions, and it always snaps back to "no killing" afterwards.

Kind of repeating myself, sorry, but that's the problem with Snyder as the mastermind of the DCEU - it makes psycho torturer/murderer Batman and angry emo neck-snappin' Superman the definitive, key versions of the characters. DC seems to be trying to weasel out of this with its (probably incomprehensible to mainstream audiences) multiverse shit,[NB] Marvel is doing the same thing in one of its upcoming films, I know, but they're not going to run multiple franchises for the same character, as DC seems to want to do with Affleck, Pattinson and Keaton's Batmanses.[/NB] but that's a desperate attempt to fix something that shouldn't have been broken in the first place.

[willbo]

I was thinking more of All Star and the TDKR sequels, but I can't remember if he kills in those either.

[Kelvin]

BvS isn't even internally consistent about Batman being a killer. In everything except the action scenes, the characters talk about him branding criminals as if that's the worst thing he does. And in the longer cut, that's implied to be a theoretical death sentence, as anyone branded by Batman gets killed in prison. But it's never said or implied that Batman is actually killing anyone himself. That only happens in the car chase and warehouse fight, because they seem to exist outside the reality of the wider film. It's genuinely bizarre.   

[Mister Six]

It's also annoying for what it means for everyone else in the DCEU. When Bruce confronts Barry Allen (aka The Flash) in Justice League, Barry's all, "Woah, you're The Batman!" when he should be saying, "OH GOD OH SHIT PLEASE DON'T KILL ME, I'M NOT A CRIMINAL PLEASE!"

And fluffy-wuffy "I choose love" Wonder Woman Diana Prince is BFFs with Bruce even though he's mangled, branded and shot mooks during his vigilantism.

Plus, obviously, it makes Commissioner Gordon and the GCPD look like a bunch of fucking idiots, calling on a spree killer for help.

[mothman]

Justice League: The Shocking, Exhilarating, Heartbreaking True Story of #TheSnyderCut.

Interesting read, that.

I feel a bit more sympathetic for him after reading that. Sure, he has in many ways encouraged the Snyder Bros, not least by actively endorsing the Snyder Cut campaign. But I wouldn't wish what he went through with his daughter on anyone. For three days my wife and I thought our child was going to die. It's fucked us up and will do for the rest of our lives, and she got better. His won't, ever. Maybe seeing his (probably still shitty) vision, his version of a shitty, actually-probably-cursed film be a success (or at least well-received) might provide some element of closure. Would I prefer that over seeing the hateful little hopes of some obnoxious entitled online tossers being dashed? I can't decide.

[Magnum Valentino]

Really glad your kid got better mothman :-)

[Glebe]

Yes, hugs Mothy.

[Mango Chimes]

BvS isn't even internally consistent about Batman being a killer. In everything except the action scenes, the characters talk about him branding criminals as if that's the worst thing he does. And in the longer cut, that's implied to be a theoretical death sentence, as anyone branded by Batman gets killed in prison. But it's never said or implied that Batman is actually killing anyone himself. That only happens in the car chase and warehouse fight, because they seem to exist outside the reality of the wider film. It's genuinely bizarre.

I don't really care about Batman killing people. Burton's Batman killed people, and there often seems to be a unpleasant loophole that killing people is a technical rule rather than a moral one. He can cause life changing injuries, but he stops just short of murder, so he's a hero. He's a stupid character and the more he's taken deadly serious, the stupider he looks.

That Vanity Fair article is a strange read. Very sympathetic, and really emotive personal story. Keep reading it after this giant picture of Joker Of Nazareth.

[mothman]

Really glad your kid got better mothman :-)

Yes, hugs Mothy.

Thanks both.

I can't say I'll NEVER watch this. But I'm not sure I'll go out of my way to do so. If it's on TV at Christmas in a year or three, maybe. Still not seen the #WhedonCut beyond clips on YouTube, now I think of it.

[SteveDave]

According to some web site, the cameo at the end is

Spoiler alert

Martian Manhunter

[close]

There's been clips with him in though?

EDIT- Just a drawing on a phone and a storyboard. Why did I spoiler that above?

[MojoJojo]

Even TDKR Batman doesn't actually kill anyone, does he?

It has the same ambiguity it sounds like BvS has. He drives a tank around shooting loads of mutants and making lots of things explode but says "I'm using rubber bullets. Honest." And when a list of charges against batman is read out, it doesn't mention murder.

It's always been a bit silly - Batman doesn't kill, but he will beat someone unconscious, break their bones and leave them in the middle of a blizzard. Miller basically just played lip service to no killing rule.

[Blumf]

Can we get another Miller/Snyder team up? I'd like some more dark macho dumbness.

[Glebe]

According to some web site, the cameo at the end is

Spoiler alert

Martian Manhunter

[close]

There's been clips with him in though?

EDIT- Just a drawing on a phone and a storyboard. Why did I spoiler that above?

That's who I assumed it would be.

[Mister Six]

It has the same ambiguity it sounds like BvS has.

Well no, there are a bunch of deaths in BvS where there's no ambiguity (the Batmobile smashing into someone standing on the back of a moving truck for one). Even if that's what Snyder was going for, there's a leeway granted in stylised comic art that isn't replicable when you have live-action footage (especially when it's deliberately shot to be "realistic").

[Custard]

Probably not worth a new thread, but JJ Abrams is now set to produce/mess up Superman

https://screenrant.com/superman-movie-reboot-jj-abrams/

[Mister Six]

Notable because it's going to be a black Superman, per THR: https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/ta-nehisi-coates-to-write-new-superman-movie-for-warner-bros

[Mister Six]

Fuck it, new thread.

[Blumf]

Probably not worth a new thread, but JJ Abrams is now set to produce/mess up Superman

Hey, Lois, do you remember Pogs?

[C_Larence]

It appears WB have somehow accidentally leaked it. Some people trying to watch Tom & Jerry have instead been greeted by the Snyder Cut.

There are spoilers in the links.
https://twitter.com/azeemzafar/status/1369063004726300673?s=21

https://twitter.com/coggear25/status/1369064796138577921?s=21

[Gulftastic]

Sky Cinema March 18th!

Hooray!