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Roger Waters "Announcement"

Started by BJBMK2, May 23, 2020, 06:17:40 PM

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greenman

Quote from: OnlyRegisteredSoICanRead on May 29, 2020, 11:35:30 AM
No he wasn't. On Meddle the only song written by Waters alone was "San Tropez", the only Waters track on Obscured By Clouds was "Free Four", although to be fair only one of those mentions Roger Waters dad.

Up to Dark Side of the Moon there was no 'leader' of Pink Floyd. No saying he wasn't by The Wall and The Final Cut, an album "by Roger Waters preformed by Pink Floyd."

I'd say the two switches were his coming up with the other arching concepts from Darkside onwards and then starting to force out the others musically on The Wall.

Its a bit unfair to Gilmour to judge him by the post Waters years when in reality his best work was back in the 70's.

Shit Good Nose

Quote from: BlodwynPig on June 07, 2020, 01:08:54 PM
Did you know Gilmour's track "Out of the Blue" was written about flouncing from this very forum.

Speaking of which (and as I've also mentioned several times on CaB), the Roxy Music 2001 "reunion" tour was one of the other most disappointing gigs I've ever experienced, in a very similar way to PF.

BlodwynPig

Quote from: Shit Good Nose on June 07, 2020, 03:36:06 PM
Speaking of which (and as I've also mentioned several times on CaB), the Roxy Music 2001 "reunion" tour was one of the other most disappointing gigs I've ever experienced, in a very similar way to PF.

I think mine was Grobschnitt in Oldenburg 2008.

Shit Good Nose

Quote from: BlodwynPig on June 07, 2020, 03:38:13 PM
I think mine was Grobschnitt in Oldenburg 2008.

I have a soundboard bootleg from (what I'm pretty sure was) that tour (the tour where they pretty much only played festivals?), with Solar Music and Rockpommel's Land both played in full.  Been years since I've listened to it so can't really remember if it was any cop.

H-O-W-L

Quote from: greenman on June 07, 2020, 03:35:30 PM
and then starting to force out the others musically on The Wall.

He actually didn't, at least not according to Inside Out (written by Nick Mason so I consider it a trustworthy and relatively unbiased source in this context). It was more a case of nobody else had any concepts beyond musical adjustment and stuff like that. They all just innately trusted Roger to be the lyricist and guide the ship, since it was his concept that he'd come up with on his own originally. A lot of songs were rewritten/cut based on what the other bandmates (and Bob Ezrin) said about them. Rick's expulsion from the band was more a result of his actual refusal to make anything for the album rather than his attempts to change anything or introduce unwanted elements. I won't pretend that Roger wasn't a cunt by kicking him out but the reason for it is, at least on paper, understandable. Mason notes in Inside Out (can't find the passage in Google Books and I have a physical copy) that Rick would regularly enter recording sessions and stalwart refuse to contribute anything, saying he was "being a producer" by sitting in on the recordings and doing nothing.

greenman

Quote from: H-O-W-L on June 07, 2020, 05:12:06 PM
He actually didn't, at least not according to Inside Out (written by Nick Mason so I consider it a trustworthy and relatively unbiased source in this context). It was more a case of nobody else had any concepts beyond musical adjustment and stuff like that. They all just innately trusted Roger to be the lyricist and guide the ship, since it was his concept that he'd come up with on his own originally. A lot of songs were rewritten/cut based on what the other bandmates (and Bob Ezrin) said about them. Rick's expulsion from the band was more a result of his actual refusal to make anything for the album rather than his attempts to change anything or introduce unwanted elements. I won't pretend that Roger wasn't a cunt by kicking him out but the reason for it is, at least on paper, understandable. Mason notes in Inside Out (can't find the passage in Google Books and I have a physical copy) that Rick would regularly enter recording sessions and stalwart refuse to contribute anything, saying he was "being a producer" by sitting in on the recordings and doing nothing.

Waters had been coming up with the concepts/lyrics for the previous three albums but musically there was a lot more input on those albums from Gilmour and Wright. I believe the issue with The Wall was that the band weren't planning on releasing an album that fast, Gilmour and Wright had done solo albums(The Comfortably Numb melody comes from those sessions) the year before but they all ended up with a tax bill they couldn't pay after some bad investments so The Wall had to be put on fairly quickly. That allowed Waters to take more control as he was the one with the a stockpile of songs.

H-O-W-L

Quote from: greenman on June 07, 2020, 05:21:00 PM
Waters had been coming up with the concepts/lyrics for the previous three albums but musically there was a lot more input on those albums from Gilmour and Wright. I believe the issue with The Wall was that the band weren't planning on releasing an album that fast, Gilmour and Wright had done solo albums(The Comfortably Numb melody comes from those sessions) the year before but they all ended up with a tax bill they couldn't pay after some bad investments so The Wall had to be put on fairly quickly. That allowed Waters to take more control as he was the one with the a stockpile of songs.

I still think it's unfair to act like this was a targetted and insidious takeover by the Mean Mister Roger, though. Even Mason says in his book that it was more a result of nobody having much else to do at the time and everyone tacitly going along with it. Up until the era of The Wall's film adaptation the group rarely came to blows or arguments by his account. Complacency rather than conspiracy.

PaulTMA

Few other factors in Wright's firing:  supposedly turning up very early every day in an attempt to earn a 'producer' credit despite not doing anything, the Floyd being in a financial dire spot prior to The Wall's release with everything riding on the double album being a success, so bad timing for not appearing to pull your weight.  I think his firing took place following a badly-timed holiday he insisted on taking, possibly being the final straw.  Plus he was having an affair and the other members all thought this was really shitty.  Oh yeah, was a cokehead too.  They all agreed to give him the boot.

BlodwynPig

Quote from: PaulTMA on June 07, 2020, 07:31:00 PM
Few other factors in Wright's firing:  supposedly turning up very early every day in an attempt to earn a 'producer' credit despite not doing anything, the Floyd being in a financial dire spot prior to The Wall's release with everything riding on the double album being a success, so bad timing for not appearing to pull your weight.  I think his firing took place following a badly-timed holiday he insisted on taking, possibly being the final straw.  Plus he was having an affair and the other members all thought this was really shitty.  Oh yeah, was a cokehead too.  They all agreed to give him the boot.

I heard they all jumped in the van one day and headed to the studio without him.

greenman

Quote from: H-O-W-L on June 07, 2020, 05:26:09 PM
I still think it's unfair to act like this was a targetted and insidious takeover by the Mean Mister Roger, though. Even Mason says in his book that it was more a result of nobody having much else to do at the time and everyone tacitly going along with it. Up until the era of The Wall's film adaptation the group rarely came to blows or arguments by his account. Complacency rather than conspiracy.

if it had just been that one album that was needed in a hurry perhaps but it ends up looking like he uses that situation to effectively take control of the band and force Wright out.

famethrowa

Quote from: Twonty Gostelow on June 07, 2020, 01:07:31 PM
... and touring Floyd songs to more acclaim than Waters and Gilmour have enjoyed for a while. DVD and CD out later this year https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9aKpk_bqJ9A

Good on Nick for getting out there like that. Might as well.

BUT, time for pedantry: that Hammond sound Leslieing all over Lucifer Sam, wrong wrong wrong and lazy. The Farfisa sound is so distinctive on those early tracks, why not use it?