Filthy Rich- Epstein Doc (Netflix)

[Noodle Lizard]

I'm glad to hear that the response to this has been overwhelmingly negative (from what I've seen). Watching it and reacting the way I did really was one of those moments where I thought I was going to end up on the wrong side of history, especially in the last episode which was staggeringly silly. The paintings, yes.

Having talked it through with a friend, I think I've decided that the problem is this: despite Epstein clearly being an incredibly unusual high-profile case with links to dozens of public figures, 50% of which we're probably still completely in the dark about, the documentary itself was basically trying to copy Surviving R. Kelly. If anything, going by the documentaries alone, Epstein looked significantly less bad than R. Kelly. If you're watching it with the kind of reaction the documentary tries to evoke in you, it's not unrealistic that some people would think "Eh, the R. Kelly one was more fucked up". Epstein's getting off light!

[BlodwynPig]

I'm glad to hear that the response to this has been overwhelmingly negative (from what I've seen). Watching it and reacting the way I did really was one of those moments where I thought I was going to end up on the wrong side of history, especially in the last episode which was staggeringly silly. The paintings, yes.

Having talked it through with a friend, I think I've decided that the problem is this: despite Epstein clearly being an incredibly unusual high-profile case with links to dozens of public figures, 50% of which we're probably still completely in the dark about, the documentary itself was basically trying to copy Surviving R. Kelly. If anything, going by the documentaries alone, Epstein looked significantly less bad than R. Kelly. If you're watching it with the kind of reaction the documentary tries to evoke in you, it's not unrealistic that some people would think "Eh, the R. Kelly one was more fucked up". Epstein's getting off light!

That was their plan.

[Head Gardener]

interesting interview with Eric Weinstein on meeting Epstein https://youtu.be/84zJ9ahJ-qU

[BlodwynPig]

interesting interview with Eric Weinstein on meeting Epstein https://youtu.be/84zJ9ahJ-qU

Really fascinating stuff. Scandal to end all scandals, surely

The interviewer is bad though, like a Gervais to Weinstein's Shandling.

[Pearly-Dewdrops Drops]

interesting interview with Eric Weinstein on meeting Epstein https://youtu.be/84zJ9ahJ-qU

Read this as Eric Wareheim and was quickly disappointed.

[Retinend]

https://www.japanfm.fr/la-madame-depstein-se-cache-a-paris/


_{Epstein's premiere Paris property (now seized) is on the left and Ghislaine's alleged flat is 5 mins away by bike, on the right.}

Funny looking source (which in turn names the publication "Le Soleil" as a source, with which I am likewise not familiar), but apparently Maxwell is living in Paris and will benefit from her French citizenship, which disallows extradition claims from foreign powers (WTF?)

« Elle veut rester en France aussi longtemps qu'elle le peut pour profiter des lois d'extradition et dispose d'un vaste réseau de contacts prêts à la garder cachée.
« En vertu de la loi française, toute personne née sur le sol français est à l'abri de l'extradition vers un autre pays, quel que soit le crime présumé.

She should wish to stay in France as long as she can in order to take advantage of the French laws of extradition and exploit her network of contacts who will help her to keep her whereabouts hidden. By decree of french law, any person born in France ("sur le sol français") is free from foreign claims of extradition, whatever the presumed crime.

There are, however, a lot of false sightings going around - the article lists both one in an LA burger joint (that turned out to be just a photoshop) and the claims of sightings in Israel (anti-Semitic in motivation?):

Elle a passé du temps dans un kibboutz là-bas après avoir quitté l'école, a un bon réseau de contacts et, selon les rumeurs, on lui aurait offert un refuge sûr.
She spent some time in a kibbutz in Israel after leaving school; has an impressive roster of contacts who - according to rumours - were offering her a safe refuge.

...So who knows if this is correct. I have no doubt she's using some of her money to spread false rumours.

edit:might make more sense now

[BlodwynPig]

how is that anti-semitic or are you referring to text not written there?

[Retinend]

This publication n the flow of the article, it goes from the reported sightings in Paris (seemingly substantiated) to the less-likely-sounding recent reports, namely the one in LA in a fast food place and this kibbutz thing. The implication of the contextual framing it is that this kibbutz thing is all hogwash, and it certainly strikes me as such.

As an aside, I couldn't help mention that this plays into the anti-semitic narrative that jewish people are above the laws, look after their own and disregard crimes committed against gentiles. That both Epstein and Maxwell are members of the jewish community is certainly something that is stoking antisemitic Pizzagate theories, but I realise that this probably seems like a gratuitous commentary.

[BlodwynPig]

Wasn't Bob Maxwell a Mossad asset? I'm sure the Israeli state have had their fingers in some dodgy pies (similarly most Western intelligence agencies). Nothing to do with anti-semitism, everything to do with state or supra-state control of wealth and suppression of the masses.

[Retinend]

I was mostly echoing the article:

D'autres affirment l'avoir vue s'éloigner de l'ambassade d'Israël, un bâtiment en verre fortifié gardé 24 heures sur 24 par des gendarmes armés aux points de contrôle à chaque extrémité de la rue, avec des agents secrets du Mossad qui patrouillent régulièrement. La proximité de Maxwell avec l'ambassade est susceptible d'alimenter les théories du complot sur qui la protège. On a prétendu qu'elle était un actif du renseignement étranger travaillant pour Israël, où son défunt père, le magnat des médias en disgrâce Robert Maxwell, est enterré. Elle a passé du temps dans un kibboutz là-bas après avoir quitté l'école, a un bon réseau de contacts et, selon les rumeurs, on lui aurait offert un refuge sûr.

"Others claim to have seen her walking away from the Israeli embassy, a fortified building watched over 24 hours a day by armed guards at control point at both ends of its street, which Mossad agents regularly patrol. The proximity of Maxwell to the embassy will surely feed into conspiracy theories which claim they are protecting her (sur qui la protège). Some have claimed that she is an intelligence agent working for the Israeli state, where her late father, disgraced media mogul Robert Maxwell, is buried. She spent some time in a kibbutz in Israel after leaving school; has an impressive roster of contacts who - according to rumours - were offering her a safe refuge."

Is this believable? The linking of dots going on here is what I would call anti-semitic, since there's absolutely no political motivation for Israel to protect the freedom and assets of a pedophile rapist, leaving only the implication that her jewishness and Jewish ancestory is somehow the relevant motivation for her protection. In any case, the Paris theory seems more realistic on the face of it if she truly is extradition-proof by virtue of her French nationality.

[Ambient Sheep]

Blackmail.  It's already been speculated that Epstein was recording everything that happened on his island in order to blackmail powerful people, probably on the behest of an intelligence service.

Seems quite possible now that that intelligence service wasn't the CIA, MI6 or the SVR... but Mossad.  Would make a lot of sense actually, blackmailing Trump, Clinton et. al. to keep support flowing to Israel and ensuring that the Palestinians never get a foothold.

[BlodwynPig]

I was mostly echoing the article:

D'autres affirment l'avoir vue s'éloigner de l'ambassade d'Israël, un bâtiment en verre fortifié gardé 24 heures sur 24 par des gendarmes armés aux points de contrôle à chaque extrémité de la rue, avec des agents secrets du Mossad qui patrouillent régulièrement. La proximité de Maxwell avec l'ambassade est susceptible d'alimenter les théories du complot sur qui la protège. On a prétendu qu'elle était un actif du renseignement étranger travaillant pour Israël, où son défunt père, le magnat des médias en disgrâce Robert Maxwell, est enterré. Elle a passé du temps dans un kibboutz là-bas après avoir quitté l'école, a un bon réseau de contacts et, selon les rumeurs, on lui aurait offert un refuge sûr.

"Others claim to have seen her walking away from the Israeli embassy, a fortified building watched over 24 hours a day by armed guards at control point at both ends of its street, which Mossad agents regularly patrol. The proximity of Maxwell to the embassy will surely feed into conspiracy theories which claim they are protecting her (sur qui la protège). Some have claimed that she is an intelligence agent working for the Israeli state, where her late father, disgraced media mogul Robert Maxwell, is buried. She spent some time in a kibbutz in Israel after leaving school; has an impressive roster of contacts who - according to rumours - were offering her a safe refuge."

Is this believable? The linking of dots going on here is what I would call anti-semitic, since there's absolutely no political motivation for Israel to protect the freedom and assets of a pedophile rapist, leaving only the implication that her jewishness and Jewish ancestory is somehow the relevant motivation for her protection. In any case, the Paris theory seems more realistic on the face of it if she truly is extradition-proof by virtue of her French nationality.

I'm afraid that is not Anti-anything, apart from anti-Israeli intelligence and anti-Maxwellian empire. I see no anti-semitism here. Israel and other countries are well known in having intelligence networks working against citizens and states.

[Retinend]

I wouldn't put too fine a point upon the antisemitism thing - but at this point if anyone asserts that the Israel connection is more important than the French connection I'll wonder why, since they are based on the same evidence (random whispers of sightings in both countries).

Blackmail.  It's already been speculated that Epstein was recording everything that happened on his island in order to blackmail powerful people, probably on the behest of an intelligence service.

Seems quite possible now that that intelligence service wasn't the CIA, MI6 or the SVR... but Mossad.  Would make a lot of sense actually, blackmailing Trump, Clinton et. al. to keep support flowing to Israel and ensuring that the Palestinians never get a foothold.

Makes sense, but his major properties were raided and in the process they found a lot of homemade pornography. If he had cleared out his houses of incriminating blackmail tapes he may as well have burned/stashed those dirty pictures away too.

[Noodle Lizard]

Makes sense, but his major properties were raided and in the process they found a lot of homemade pornography. If he had cleared out his houses of incriminating blackmail tapes he may as well have burned/stashed those dirty pictures away too.

It may be a bit tin-foil hat, but perhaps someone else cleared out the house - or the incriminating evidence was kept somewhere else where it couldn't be easily accessed/destroyed. Either way, if we're to see it as plausible that he might've been murdered in jail, it's not unreasonable to think that whoever was behind that could make some of the evidence disappear too.

[Retinend]

But then why would this thief steal all of the tapes instead of a specific one?

[Noodle Lizard]

But then why would this thief steal all of the tapes instead of a specific one?

Fuck knows. I think what we can glean at the moment from this case is that nobody really knows anywhere close to the full extent of it, and it'll probably stay that way.