Minnesota Riots

[Puce Moment]

Awful lot of pearl clutching and hand wringing going on in here. I could be wrong but I don't think a few flippant posts on a comedy forum about a dead idiot are going to change the course of history.

It's a tragedy.

[evilcommiedictator]

Links please. All I can find is that Jay Bishop is aka Aaron Danielson and a description of the Portland train attack.

https://heavy.com/news/2020/08/jay-bishop-aaron-danielson/

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Portland_train_attack

for you my dear xoxoxo
https://twitter.com/InsideASCIF/status/1300177098955534347

[Lord Mandrake]

I saw footage of Bishop spraying bear mace at the wrong guy and then getting slotted, staggering a few feet then dropping. Also saw a female BLM medic attending to him, she is violently pushed away as the cops arrive, her supplies kicked away, she could have possibly saved him  The cops let him bleed out because they think he's BLM.

[sambwel]

Violent people are using this whole thing as an excuse to just kill whoever they feel like, not any better than what the cops do really.

For whatever good the comparison does, I think agents of the state carrying out arbitrary killings like it's their job is actually far worse.

[Buelligan]

I agree.  I also find it remarkable and admirable that, given the ubiquity of gun ownership in America, there has been so little murder as a response from these so-called anarchists and violent criminal good-for-nothings bent on destroying decent society.

[El Unicornio, mang]

For whatever good the comparison does, I think agents of the state carrying out arbitrary killings like it's their job is actually far worse.

I can't get on board with self-appointed agents of [whatever group they're allied to] carrying out executions either.

[Buelligan]

Are people "on board" with them?  I'd say the majority of people just think they're provocative arseholes, busily making a very bad situation worse and it's highly surprising more of them aren't gunned down in the street. 

[Johnny Yesno]

for you my dear xoxoxo
https://twitter.com/InsideASCIF/status/1300177098955534347

Thanks, but that's not him.

According to this (which has been updated since I looked yesterday), that's not him: https://heavy.com/news/2020/08/jay-bishop-aaron-danielson/

[Poirots BigGarlickyCorpse]

I agree.  I also find it remarkable and admirable that, given the ubiquity of gun ownership in America, there has been so little murder as a response from these so-called anarchists and violent criminal good-for-nothings bent on destroying decent society.

I would love to know, where are all these violent black criminal gangs we all heard so much about in the 90s? With all their Glocks and Uzis doing drive-bys? This would be their Moment, wouldn't it?

Seriously though, I would guess the black community realise that arming themselves in the face of police brutality just means that more of them will get shot. Cops are already shooting them for such heinous crimes as reaching into their cars and running away from police, if any of them show up to a protest with guns they'll be mown down. And I have a feeling that most of the other protesters don't have guns anyway, and/or are protesting in good faith and not going looking for a fight.

[sambwel]

I can't get on board with self-appointed agents of [whatever group they're allied to] carrying out executions either.

I was not trying to imply that's good. But I will remind you that the white supremacist vigilantes also have the backing of the state, albeit unofficial and more limited. Not enough to save an individual killer from prosecution, although sometimes that amounts to nothing, a la George Zimmerman.

[The Mollusk]

I would love to know, where are all these violent black criminal gangs we all heard so much about in the 90s? With all their Glocks and Uzis doing drive-bys? This would be their Moment, wouldn't it?

Seriously though, I would guess the black community realise that arming themselves in the face of police brutality just means that more of them will get shot. Cops are already shooting them for such heinous crimes as reaching into their cars and running away from police, if any of them show up to a protest with guns they'll be mown down. And I have a feeling that most of the other protesters don't have guns anyway, and/or are protesting in good faith and not going looking for a fight.

I might be wrong, but didn't the Black Panthers arm themselves precisely as a statement of self-defence against the threat of being shot by police for the colour of their skin? So it's no surprise that they're not doing that now, and it's totally fucked up that you can't even utilise your own country's batshit right to bear arms because the law is stacked against you. No fucking wonder black people feel voiceless really.

I don't ever really contribute in these discussions but wow America is so fucking stupid.

[Bazooka]

There gave been black people with guns during these events,as there have been people of other ethnicities with guns, abliet a small minority on all sides, because you can doesn't mean you want to, I don't see how black people don't have a voice if they choose not to have a gun on them.

[Buelligan]

I don't think that's what Poirot meant.  More, that if semi-organised groups of black protesters rolled up in flag-bearing convoys, armed to the teeth and wearing uniform, they would not be offered tasty beverages by the local law enforcement.

In other words, the right of black citizens to behave and express themselves in the same way that white ones can is denied, often, on pain of death.

[The Mollusk]

In other words, the right of black citizens to behave and express themselves in the same way that white ones can is denied, often, on pain of death.

That is the same thing that I said:

it's totally fucked up that you can't even utilise your own country's batshit right to bear arms because the law is stacked against you.

[Buelligan]

Indeed.  Yes, I should've said Mollusk and Poirot.

[The Mollusk]

Oh right! Soz, I thought you were addressing me, not Bazooka.

[Buelligan]

Heheh, I usually quote someone or name them if I'm addressing them and my post does not immediately follow theirs.  In this case my post followed Bazooka's so I assumed it was clear that's who I was addressing.

[The Mollusk]

I often do exactly the same and so I should have clocked it but hangover logic is a vicious bastard.

[El Unicornio, mang]

I would love to know, where are all these violent black criminal gangs we all heard so much about in the 90s? With all their Glocks and Uzis doing drive-bys? This would be their Moment, wouldn't it?

America was a much more dangerous place in the 90s (twice the number of murders) but gangs are still very active, although Hispanic gangs are more prevalent than black gangs. I lived in Chicago, the city with the most gangs in America (about 150,000 members), and between 60-80% of the 550 or so murders that happen in the city each year are related to gangs. Much of it is tit-for-tat. I lived in a very safe neighbourhood and someone was executed round the corner from me one night by a gang member, and a couple of friends have been caught in the crossfire of drive-bys. Right-wingers use Chicago as an example of why gun laws don't work (Chicago has very strict laws vs most other cities) which of course is nonsense as it's easy to drive to another state or even just another part of Illinois and bring guns back.

But, they're fighting each other. They're generally not going around attacking random people, and I've no reason to believe they'd be get involved in anything riot-related, their business is about territory and making money from drug dealing, although people not involved with gangs do get caught in the crossfire sometimes. And I'm sure I don't need to tell you that gang violence in America is a by-product of the problems America has as a country.

[Hundhoon]

For many years the situation in the US has reminded me of another former British colony....South Africa
Major right wing figures like Tim Pool are going nuts in recent weeks  keeps talking about a future American civil war.

i think thats bollocks, but  for many years the situation in the US keeps bringing me back to South Africa....

ive been to both New Orleans and Cape Town and the similarities were too much.

[evilcommiedictator]

Endemic poverty of the former slave class works really well eh? and both sides of the ditch there have the biggest and best leaders siphoning off money for themselves too, excellent

[evilcommiedictator]

Well it turns out that there was a person who has admitted to shooting that fascist person, claims in self defense.

And guess what? They're killed by police as they were being arrested. I'm sure all the body cams were working, right?
https://www.opb.org/article/2020/09/04/michael-forest-reinoehl-protest-fatal-shooting-self-defense/
https://www.oregonlive.com/crime/2020/09/man-sought-in-the-fatal-downtown-portland-shooting-reported-to-have-been-killed-by-officers-in-wa.html

Thurston County Sheriff John Snaza confirmed to The Olympian newspaper that U.S. marshals shot a man on a street in Tanglewilde, an area in Lacey, Washington. The newspaper reported that a neighbor said he saw two SUVs pull up and then heard 30 to 40 shots.

[wooders1978]

Reinoehl's sister told OPB that Portland police asked her to identify a man in photos from protests after Saturday's shooting. She told them it was her estranged brother. The sister spoke on the condition that she not be named because, she said, her family has received death threats.

Nice one....

So that's another life lost due to this being allowed to escalate out of hand in the previous weeks and the media encouraging a civil war - he had kids too according to that article.

[El Unicornio, mang]

Well it turns out that there was a person who has admitted to shooting that fascist person, claims in self defense.

And guess what? They're killed by police as they were being arrested. I'm sure all the body cams were working, right?
https://www.opb.org/article/2020/09/04/michael-forest-reinoehl-protest-fatal-shooting-self-defense/
https://www.oregonlive.com/crime/2020/09/man-sought-in-the-fatal-downtown-portland-shooting-reported-to-have-been-killed-by-officers-in-wa.html

A lot of American cops are generally just trigger happy with everyone but the guy sounds like someone who might not want to go quietly (even his own family members saying as much). Shootouts with the police are common over there. In the UK last year, 1 police officer was killed on duty (Andrew Harper), in the US 150 police officers were killed. You couldn't pay me enough to do that job.

[Buelligan]

If they're tooled up specialists, they should have worked out how to catch they fellow without appearing to summarily execute him.  Even if they don't care about his welfare, they should have enough sense to understand that shooting him down like a dog in the street is extremely bad optics at this time.  Unless, of course, they know that the optics don't matter because they'll always get away with it, no matter what the circumstances.

[El Unicornio, mang]

He was an extremely dangerous individual who had already shot someone down like a dog on the streets and was (according to eyewitnesses) firing at the police who were trying to arrest him. Maybe they did use excessive force, I don't know, none of us do, but it doesn't sound like a situation that can be compared to examples of them just killing someone for the hell of it.

[Buelligan]

It never does.  My point still stands.  They knew he was allegedly extremely dangerous.  They knew that they were going to encounter him, it wasn't a chance event.  They knew that a great deal of interest would be focused on his arrest and yet still, four of them.  Four of them.  Were obliged to discharge their weapons into his body. 

[El Unicornio, mang]

That makes sense though. If he starts firing (with an assault rifle no less, according to witnesses he was spraying bullets all over the place) they're all going to start firing at the same time. Having been to gun ranges, I know how hard it is just to hit a non-moving target with no pressure, nevermind a moving target that's firing back at you.

[chveik]

He was an extremely dangerous individual who had already shot someone down like a dog on the streets and was (according to eyewitnesses) firing at the police who were trying to arrest him. Maybe they did use excessive force, I don't know, none of us do, but it doesn't sound like a situation that can be compared to examples of them just killing someone for the hell of it.

don't be so fucking gullible. and even the articles you've linked to are much less certain of what happened than your posts

[Buelligan]

That makes sense though. If he starts firing (with an assault rifle no less, according to witnesses he was spraying bullets all over the place) they're all going to start firing at the same time. Having been to gun ranges, I know how hard it is just to hit a non-moving target with no pressure, nevermind a moving target that's firing back at you.

The information we have at this time is that the subject was armed. There were shots that were fired into the vehicle and the subject fled from the vehicle, at which time there was additional shots that were fired

I know they have big vehicles in America but still, firing an assault rifle from inside a vehicle, then getting out, presumably still firing and running away, still firing a rifle.  If you've been to firing ranges, you'll know what a rifle is El Unicornio.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-54023227