Minnesota Riots

[Pearly-Dewdrops Drops]

murdering an innocent woman in her bed.

Not really what happened.

I'm still mystified why this case has been seized on as a cause celebre, when there are more egregious police murders of innocent black people probably on a weekly basis that get zero coverage. If I were a conspiracy theorist....

[Goldentony]

honestly think this is worse than nothing. It appeases absolutely nobody.

UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, BABY!

[C_Larence]

Not really what happened.

What happened?

[Ferris]

I'm still mystified why this case has been seized on as a cause celebre, when there are more egregious police murders of innocent black people probably on a weekly basis that get zero coverage. If I were a conspiracy theorist....

From my understanding (and I'm no expert) there are two reasons it became so emblematic.

One; it was so straightforward and visceral. Her door was kicked in and she was shot and killed while standing in her own home. It could happen to anyone (in the US), at any time, and that's mad.

Two; it was indefensible. A lot of times in similar situations people will say "oh well they shouldn't have been hanging out with criminals" or "they had priors" or "looked like they were reaching for a gun" or whatever. Breonna Taylor was standing in the next room to the police, in her own home. There's no "ooh up to something shady we can use to deflect" blame. Similar to George Floyd - there's not even the pretence of an excuse for what they did.

It's not murder (as in, the police didn't go to her house with the express intention of killing her), but the way I understood it the cops didn't go out of their way to keep her (or anyone else in the apartment block) safe either. There was a callous abrogation of the need to protect innocent citizens and the implication is because they felt like they were in a black neighbourhood so fire away. That's my understanding of the importance of saying BLM, because in this instance those lives clearly didn't matter to the tactical unit that (intentionally or otherwise) shot and killed an innocent person for no reason*.

Both those reasons combined with the moment in history made the case resonate. Again, that's just my interpretation, I'm not an expert by any stretch.

_{*you could make the argument that they'd be as trigger happy in a majority white neighbourhood but a) I don't think so, and b) that's not exactly an argument in the police's favour}

[Bazooka]

The guy in the apartment fired first,hitting one of the officers,they fired back and she was in the hallway and was struck, the law allows them to fire back in defence, how they fired or did training go out the window, we don't know that, the bloke who shot at them didn't get hit himself.

[BlodwynPig]

The guy in the apartment fired first,hitting one of the officers,they fired back and she was in the hallway and was struck, the law allows them to fire back in defence, how they fired or did training go out the window, we don't know that, the bloke who shot at them didn't get hit himself.

I don't think they shouted "police", so he was entitled under US law to shoot at violent home invaders.

[chveik]

The guy in the apartment fired first,hitting one of the officers,they fired back and she was in the hallway and was struck, the law allows them to fire back in defence, how they fired or did training go out the window, we don't know that, the bloke who shot at them didn't get hit himself.

you stupid cunt

[bgmnts]

Fuck me that made me chuckle for some reason ^

[Bazooka]

you stupid cunt

Typical emotionally charged response from you, please elaborate using calm dialect if possible.

[BlodwynPig]

Typical emotionally charged response from you, please elaborate using calm dialect if possible.

read my reply

[Bazooka]

I don't think they shouted "police", so he was entitled under US law to shoot at violent home invaders.

Did I say otherwise?  I'm not condoing, or voicing opinion , guns are horrid all round, just stating how the case is viewed under law.

[jobotic]

Typical emotionally charged response from you, please elaborate using calm dialect if possible.

Yeah stop getting upset about it

Which dialect is calm by the way? Cornish?

[Bazooka]

Yeah stop getting upset about it

Which dialect is calm by the way? Cornish?

You got me, meant dialogue,but yes Cornish is a good one.

[C_Larence]

I don't think they shouted "police", so he was entitled under US law to shoot at violent home invaders.

The police say they announced themselves. One other witness also heard them shout "Police" but that doesn't fit the police's story. Kenneth Walker and 11 neighbours claim they made no announcement. Bare in mind that the police lie to cover their backs every chance they get.

Another sickening aspect of this story, that wasn't released until later, is that after being shot 5 times Taylor was left alone (and apparently alive) for 20 minutes, without any attempts to administer first aid.

[bgmnts]

When in doubt, always side with the police.

[Jumblegraws]

The police say they announced themselves. One other witness also heard them shout "Police" but that doesn't fit the police's story. Kenneth Walker and 11 neighbours claim they made no announcement.. Bare in mind that the police lie to cover their backs every chance they get.

Plus in a country that insanely gun-ridden, you might well think twice about letting an intruder get the jump on you just because they shouted "POLICE!!!"

[Pearly-Dewdrops Drops]

From my understanding (and I'm no expert) there are two reasons it became so emblematic.

One; it was so straightforward and visceral. Her door was kicked in and she was shot and killed while standing in her own home. It could happen to anyone (in the US), at any time, and that's mad.

Two; it was indefensible. A lot of times in similar situations people will say "oh well they shouldn't have been hanging out with criminals" or "they had priors" or "looked like they were reaching for a gun" or whatever. Breonna Taylor was standing in the next room to the police, in her own home. There's no "ooh up to something shady we can use to deflect" blame. Similar to George Floyd - there's not even the pretence of an excuse for what they did.

It's not murder (as in, the police didn't go to her house with the express intention of killing her), but the way I understood it the cops didn't go out of their way to keep her (or anyone else in the apartment block) safe either. There was a callous abrogation of the need to protect innocent citizens and the implication is because they felt like they were in a black neighbourhood so fire away. That's my understanding of the importance of saying BLM, because in this instance those lives clearly didn't matter to the tactical unit that (intentionally or otherwise) shot and killed an innocent person for no reason*.

Both those reasons combined with the moment in history made the case resonate. Again, that's just my interpretation, I'm not an expert by any stretch.

_{*you could make the argument that they'd be as trigger happy in a majority white neighbourhood but a) I don't think so, and b) that's not exactly an argument in the police's favour}

All of this seems to be the assumed narrative, but that's not really what happened.

First of all, I'm not defending the police or saying they are blameless. It seems they improperly executed a no-knock warrant leading to an incident that ultimately left someone dead. At a minimum they should have been immediately fired for such an error, and these latest charges about recklessly discharging a firearm are most likely appropriate. No-knock warrants are also an obscene tactic that should have been banned decades ago.

But they did not kick down the door and murder her in cold blood (which, incidentally, is something that the police do sometimes do and have done in a number of documented cases). After they entered the apartment her boyfriend opened fire on them, and, not surprisingly, they returned fire. Taylor was killed in the crossfire through the wall. I don't see how one can justify criminally charging them with murder in those circumstances unless you are starting on the premise that police officers are inherently bad people so who cares what they are charged with they should all be punished.

I'm just very suspicious of the case's notoriety because it seems to exclusively serve right-wing objectives:

1 - It tarnishes the persuasive authority of the entire movement because the mainstream narrative misconstrues the actual facts and elevates a case that right-wing media can use as an example of how unreasonable "the left" is, eg they want police officers to be charged with murder for defending themselves? Accidentally killing a bystander is not a very good example of the racist violence of the police, and this case has now crowded out so many that are obvious illustrations of police oppression.

2 - It is premised on support for a right-wing obsession with "castle laws." (Personally I still don't think that a homeowner should ever be lauded for wantonly opening fire on a home intruder.)

3 - The desired outcome is based on extending the authority of criminal prosecutors to bring charges in dubious circumstances. Guess who is going to be harmed by that kind of prosecutorial creep in the long run.

[Pearly-Dewdrops Drops]

(And yes I can understand why some might have a visceral response to my criticisms as if I am downplaying the tragedy of a black woman being killed in her home by the police as the result of a chain of events that is ultimately premised on the drug war, the racist criminalization of poverty, the militarization of hair-triggered police officers, etc, but I'm narrowly talking about the media focus on this case in particular and the demand that the officers be criminally prosecuted for murder. It goes without saying that the entire situation is tragic and preventable on a societal level.)

[C_Larence]

I'm just very suspicious of the case's notoriety because it seems to exclusively serve right-wing objectives

Ah yes, right wing people are famous for hating when black people are extrajudicially killed.

I think I see the points you're trying to make, but they're based on what other people MIGHT be thinking. It's the Democrats' standard tactic of not fighting for something because it might make people mad, never mind that it would actually make things better. An innocent woman was killed as the result of being shot by police, two of whom are being charged with nothing (and one is being charged with what amounts to property damage). That isn't justice.

[Ferris]

All of this seems to be the assumed narrative, but that's not really what happened.

Eh? I don't think I said anything that was the least bit disputed by either side?

But they did not kick down the door and murder her in cold blood (which, incidentally, is something that the police do sometimes do and have done in a number of documented cases). After they entered the apartment her boyfriend opened fire on them, and, not surprisingly, they returned fire. Taylor was killed in the crossfire through the wall. I don't see how one can justify criminally charging them with murder in those circumstances unless you are starting on the premise that police officers are inherently bad people so who cares what they are charged with they should all be punished.

Literally 4th para of my initial reply speaks to this - it even opens with "its not murder" and explains why I think there is a racial element (and in my opinion, likely negligent manslaughter).

With respect, I think you're replying to me without reading what I wrote

[C_Larence]

One of the family's attorneys posted this on FB.

[jobotic]

You got me, meant dialogue,but yes Cornish is a good one.

I wouldn't normally be such a prick but you were very condescending.

[chveik]

Typical emotionally charged response from you, please elaborate using calm dialect if possible.

removing all context to make it look somewhat acceptable, it's hardly how the law should operate

[Pearly-Dewdrops Drops]

Ah yes, right wing people are famous for hating when black people are extrajudicially killed.

I think I see the points you're trying to make, but they're based on what other people MIGHT be thinking. It's the Democrats' standard tactic of not fighting for something because it might make people mad, never mind that it would actually make things better. An innocent woman was killed as the result of being shot by police, two of whom are being charged with nothing (and one is being charged with what amounts to property damage). That isn't justice.

Vague appeals to "justice" divorced from factual reality or any type of political strategy. Now that sounds Democratic.

With respect, I think you're replying to me without reading what I wrote

Not the case

[C_Larence]

Vague appeals to "justice" divorced from factual reality or any type of political strategy. Now that sounds Democratic.

I'll be less vague, any of the officers who fired a bullet that hit Breonna Taylor should be charged with manslaughter at the very least. As it stands, the only thing they're being charged with is missing.

[Buelligan]

If you smash your way into someone's home in the middle of the night in America, would you expect that you might get shot at?  I think the answer to that is yes.  It's a highly likely outcome.  Anyone choosing to behave in that way knows that in America it would be perfectly lawful for the occupant to fire on them.  Dressing up the police's behaviour as self defence is ludicrous.

[evilcommiedictator]

Literally the whole point of a no-knock raid is to shoot anyone who is not doing an impression of a mannequin. And I like how it's OK for white people to defend their homes against intruders, but clearly not when someone knocks your fucking door down.

And of course, there seems to be an issue with gentrification, with police working with developers to scare out poorer people so properties can be redeveloped - not just in this case, but also in Atlanta where an Officer quit and blew the whistle on their plans: https://www.motherjones.com/crime-justice/2020/09/the-cop-who-quit-instead-of-helping-to-gentrify-atlanta/

On my beat, they started telling me: "We really want you to start policing this section of Boulevard and Ponce de Leon Avenue, basically the Bedford Pines Apartments. We think there are dope boys in there. We think there's a lot of illegal activity happening and we want to really focus there. So we're gonna put up signs that say you can't park on the street. I want you to go and write tickets on every single car that's on the street and I want you to get those cars out of there; if they don't move, tow 'em. I want you to start running checks on everybody standing on the street; if they have got warrants, I want you to lock 'em up."

The only way you can evict or do anything like that is if the person who owns the apartment is convicted of a felony. So the Bedford Pines guys just went to the police department and said: "We want you to police in here, and we're going to give you a section of Bedford Pines to actually have office space. And I want you to lock up as many people as possible so we can make these apartments vacant and we can knock 'em down."

And of course, after he quit, he was accused of abusing his pets and investigated.

[Dog Botherer]

two coppers caught bullets in Louisville. shit load of protesters got their heads kicked in. no fatalities yet as far as i've seen.