Larry Sanders Rewatch/Queries

[Puce Moment]

I'm struggling to think of a show/comedy that I most feel nervous about re-watching in case it doesn't hold up. I even avoid clips.

It has been a LONG TIME since I saw this first, but it does deserve a re-watch, not least so it can retain its very high scoring in my list of best TV shows.

[Satchmo Distel]

Barr and Arnold were also close to corpsing, breaking character.

I was wondering how well Tim Miller's act has lasted. What was shocking in 1993 is less so now.

[Better Midlands]

I'm struggling to think of a show/comedy that I most feel nervous about re-watching in case it doesn't hold up. I even avoid clips.

It has been a LONG TIME since I saw this first, but it does deserve a re-watch, not least so it can retain its very high scoring in my list of best TV shows.

I've just this week watched some season 2 episodes having not watched it since it was aired with Seinfeld on BBC2 in the 90's, I didn't enjoy it as much as I did back then - would probably say the same about Seinfeld too.

Both great shows though.

[Satchmo Distel]

Series 2 episode 16 - another death curse episode: Gene Siskel (died 1999), John Ritter (2003), Warren Zevon (2003)

Peter Tolan gets a cameo as Ritter's agent.

Joshua Melina debut - comes back in 1998 as a different character?

https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0539651/?ref_=ttfc_fc_cl_t12

Then there's this ("would you like to see what I've got down there?"):

[Puce Moment]

I've just this week watched some season 2 episodes having not watched it since it was aired with Seinfeld on BBC2 in the 90's, I didn't enjoy it as much as I did back then - would probably say the same about Seinfeld too.

Both great shows though.

That's reassuring as that was when I watched it as well. I seem to remember Sanders coming on before Seinfeld (is that true?) which made me think that Seinfeld was the inferior show in terms of popularity. I couldn't be more wrong!

I watched Seinfeld again and it largely held up well, especially seasons 2-4. If Sanders holds up as well I will be delighted!

[Satchmo Distel]

That would be in keeping with his personal mission, so, probably, yes.

It's a bit weird how Francine just disappears from the show at the end of Season 2 - she runs out of the room when Howard Stern turns up at the house, never to be seen (or, unless I've missed something, even spoken of) again. But then, you've got to be willing to suspend a little disbelief even in a realistic-seeming show like this, from the impossible layout of the workspace to the fact that the writing staff seems to dwindle to one or two writers by the end of the show's run.

She tells Larry she won't go to New York and wants a break. I don't think Stern brings that on but I am surprised Larry wants Stern in his home

[Small Man Big Horse]

That's reassuring as that was when I watched it as well. I seem to remember Sanders coming on before Seinfeld (is that true?) which made me think that Seinfeld was the inferior show in terms of popularity. I couldn't be more wrong!

I watched Seinfeld again and it largely held up well, especially seasons 2-4. If Sanders holds up as well I will be delighted!

Larry Sanders is in my top 3 favourite ever sitcoms and I never tire of it, so I hope you still enjoy it when you do rewatch it.

[Puce Moment]

Larry Sanders is in my top 3 favourite ever sitcoms and I never tire of it, so I hope you still enjoy it when you do rewatch it.

The deal is sealed. I'm going on a Twilight Zone and Larry Sanders binge!

[mr. logic]

Where are people streaming this?

[Sonny_Jim]

So according to some Wikipedia talk page, it's likely that the 'Tim Miller/Bill Hicks' thing  is just a coincidence, as it appears the Larry Sanders episode was filmed before Bills Letterman appearance.

Eerily similar though, especially with the Jay Leno bit at the end

[Satchmo Distel]

Where are people streaming this?

HBO USA in my case

Youtube has this (maybe just USA?) https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLINck8aUi97DaZ5Tu3-3t8CB3ts6D3GDD

[thr0b]

I rewatched all of Larry Sanders a year or so ago; it still holds up if only because the archetypes are still current.

I think the only thing that has changed in late night shows of any significance is they have become a lot more political rather than celebrity-led (particularly since Colbert took on The Late Show, then Trump, then Covid*), and the rivalry between the shows in the same slots is all but gone, or at least is now entirely friendly.

You would never have got Letterman and Leno doing sketches with the other on their own turf, as happens with Colbert and the Jimmys these days.

* Watching Corden trying to do a serious version of his usual happy-clappy entertainment show is painful, with him pulling his Serious Face all of the time. Which is a shame, because although personally he appears to be a terrible cunt, the show he does is good fun. But not as good as Ferguson before him, not even close.

Seinfeld is also really, really good still.

Also did a full rewatch of Cheers. There's a show that hasn't aged brilliantly well. Throughout, Sam Malone is The Worst Man Alive (he STRANGLES Diane in one episode where they're quarrelling), but is held up as a King Of Men. By the end, the show is trying to do big emotional moments that are entirely unearned.

[Sonny_Jim]

Top tip: Give your everyday life that 'Larry Sanders' feeling by getting someone to dangle a boom mic into view every few minutes.

[Satchmo Distel]

The Elvis Costello episode (season 3 episode 5) is a big drop in quality from the usual standard. The writers just weren't familiar enough with who he was at that stage of his career and his acting could not carry the lines required of him. The band were terrific, however. Hank's subplot was also weak in this one (whether he says coconut or chicken in a parody of a face cream commercial).

Janeane Garofalo has started to rival Jeffrey Tambor as the standout performer in season 3 so far (five episodes in). Her scenes with Danny DeVito were terrific.

[Sonny_Jim]

Yeah she's great in the episode when Arthur is stuck in traffic and she has to produce the show herself.  I don't think she gets much else in the way of lines for the rest of the season.

WRT to the 'coconut/chicken subplot, I know the 'joke' was supposed to be that Hanks joke doesn't work, but man does it drag...

I'm just laughing at the irony of Rosanne Barr helping Larry kick an prescription pill addiction in the series 3 finale, considering she blamed her recent racist comments on sleeping pills.

[Satchmo Distel]

Larry, Hank and Artie all being total sleazeballs in the Sharon Stone episode. I thought it was a Sharon double in the sex scene initially. I didn't get the Julianne Phillips joke at the end.

The ways in which Larry gets laid in this, while ironic, are not feminist friendly and may border on cancelled by 2020 standards. Artie even got laid by Beverly* ffs (again deliberately ridiculous but diminishes the character as a woman and appears to condone the sleaziness of these characters).

*Beverly seems to be an independent sassy person in some episodes (with permission to criticize the behavior of the powerful men) and a doormat in others. I'm not sure her overall treatment by the writers has lasted well. Darlene is pure eye candy, not given any intelligence or maturity at all as far as I can tell. This might be why they needed to give Paula more of a spotlight, as a character that smart women viewers could actually like.

[chveik]

The ways in which Larry gets laid in this, while ironic, are not feminist friendly and may border on cancelled by 2020 standards.

I think it's a realistic depiction of how women are treated in Hollywood

[McChesney Duntz]

I think so too. And I don't think Larry's (or most anybody's) interactions with women are presented as anything to be lauded. Clearly, everyone in the show is, to one degree or another, a fucking mess.

[Satchmo Distel]

Fair points, but I feel that the victims of the men's predatory behavior could have been written with more depth so it's clearer they are troubled by the harassment. Beverly complains about the 'pussy' comments in the Sharon Stone episode but there's no suggestion that she might want to make a formal complaint for behavior that creates a hostile environment. Darlene (at least up to now) is just a shell of a character that wouldn't be out of a place in your average sexist sitcom of the past.

Sharon Stone is, I assume, satirizing her public image in this episode. Hank's "Did you bang her?" is an example of his character being not just damaged but also a true sociopath, albeit a funny one.

[Satchmo Distel]

Series 3, the characters' behaviour gets darker:

Beverly protests about her mother being placed in the "retards" section of the audience.

Hank puts his head on Darlene's breasts (one of Darlene's last storylines in the show before Shandling dumps the character, having split from the actress in real life).

Larry is addicted to painkillers.

Characters taking digs at each other's weight (especially the arse).

The suicide gun joke at Hank's expense.

I'm guessing that Shandling was in a dark place around the back end of Series 3. Then the start of Series 4 has a running theme of being set against the O.J. Simpson trial.

[Sonny_Jim]

Season 5 episode 12 'The Roast' has Carl Reiner in it.  Seem pertinent information to share.

RIP

[Satchmo Distel]

Seeing Jeannie come back for an episode, I wish she'd been in it longer. Good actress who owns the screen.

[Sin Agog]

I liked it when Larry Sanders won Taskmaster.

[Sin Agog]

I think it's a realistic depiction of how women are treated in Hollywood

At least Larry never straight-up sucked on a female guest's hair.

[Sin Agog]

The basis of Larry Sanders was that holy trinity of Artie, Hank and Larry, and they're such vivid characters I just don't see how it could ever really fully date.  The saxophone stings and no-mark guests who you can't remember anymore don't really matter.  I guess a laugh track could possibly have dented it for me, but probably not even that.  Those characters, man.  Gifts.

[Satchmo Distel]

Totally agree but I think Beverly is also important, as a counter to the sexism and childishness of the trio. The guests can fuck off but the actors playing the studio executives and Larry and Hank's agents are important; those roles had to be acted well.

[Satchmo Distel]

The "affirmative action" episode in season 4 is very interesting but let down by an ending that gives Larry a win he doesn't really deserve. Beverly's love for Larry overcomes her political stance. That's not great.

[QDRPHNC]

The "affirmative action" episode in season 4 is very interesting but let down by an ending that gives Larry a win he doesn't really deserve. Beverly's love for Larry overcomes her political stance. That's not great.

This is probably part of a larger discussion, but I think though, it's important not to always look at characters in TV shows and movies as proxies for how people should act, or symbolic of larger social ideals. I know I'm not explaining that well.

Unless the writer has intended such, the characters should be taken as individuals, who are frequently illogical, irrational, driven by emotion, and work against their own best interests. I mean, look at the Sopranos. 7 seasons of a guy saying one thing and doing the other - it's so compelling because it's done so subtly, it so easy to see ourselves in that part of a character whose life most of us would never want, doing things we'd never do.

To being it back to TLSS. Larry "wins" this one, because despite Beverly's political stance, her cousin is really, really annoying. So her pragmatic side wins out again her idealistic side. Fighting the good fight can wait till tomorrow, she needs to get this hassle out of her life today. That's real, and relatable.

[dr_christian_troy]

I had an idea once where we would see a mini-series called Hey Now in which we see a present-day Hank Kingsley living out of a motel doing shitty warm-up gigs in Vegas, then he bumps into writer Phil who's visiting Vegas on a conference trip and gives the impression he's doing very well. Hank attempts to latch onto him to get a role in a sitcom that Phil is writing for, except we then find out Phil is there on a "Leaving Las Vegas"-style binge after being sacked from a prime time gig and they both reluctantly team up to try and land a new show or something. It then leads to a Ocean's Eleven-style attempt of Kingsley trying to get a dream team together, with the occasional cameo but ultimately it is short-lived and the series works as a coda that is both funny and bleak at the same time.

[chveik]

^ love it. shame that Tambor is an old creep now