Old Doctor Who - Part 4

[pigamus]

Thought about watching Twice Upon a Time today but it would just make me sad.

[purlieu]

"Of course, the irony is while you've been closing plants here in the West, you've been building them in the East. So if the unemployed were sent to the eastern labour camps, a great many of them would be working for you again, only this time without payment."
Magnificent script and unarguably one of the all-time greats.

[kidsick5000]

EDIT: wrong Who thread, even though it's about a decade-old episode

[Norton Canes]

I know it's Christmas Day and we all have better things to be doing so no-one will see this right away, quite right too. I just wanted to say that I watched The Caves of Androzani for the first time in a while this week. God, it's so good. Wouldn't say it's the best story ever, or even that such a plaudit can be awarded, but as I watched it I was gripped by Graeme Harper's direction - yes, some aspects of it have inevitably dated, but some parts remain just as current and jaw-dropping, particularly the chase scene in part 4, Jesus Christ, those whip-pans! The cliffhangers... The final confrontation between Jek and Morgus... And I've always liked when Stotz's voice echoes in the wind during a tense bit in part 2 ('Come on, BITE! BITE!')

The performances as well - Christopher Gable always has the viewer's attention, John Normington's deadpan delivery is very weird but all the more unnerving for it, and very funny at times; I still laugh whenever he says 'How sad.' with such sincerity. :)

And of course, the script by Robert Holmes... One might say it's Robert Holmes by numbers, but it's Robert Holmes, a truly individual voice and a damn good writer. No-one else could do the sort of poetic dialogue, plus the correct balance of black humour and ballsy horror like he did. I was watching utterly awe-struck at the plotting and how it moves long, how events are so subtly interconnected with each other, how so much is implied rather than spoon-fed. That and the characterisation - no-one is a straight-up one-dimensional villain out to do evil - they have realistic and relatable motivations (e.g. Sharaz Jek letting the Doctor go with Stotz to Androzani Major simply because he's preoccupied with finding Peri.) The Doctor might not be the most interesting character in the story, but he does affect everything that occurs, and it is a heroic way for Peter Davison to go out, even if the regeneration aspect feels rather minor.

I'd just forgotten how good it was. I remembered it being good, but I thought the novelty would wear off. No chance... Merry Christmas all!

I'd say it is absolutely the best classic-era story. When a post on Gallifrey Base or wherever asks for favourite story I put 'Caves' then check myself and run through the other usual contenders like The War Games, Inferno, half a dozen Hinchcliffes, City Of Death, and it stands up not only to all of them, but also the quirkier stories I love, like Carnival Of Monsters and Kinda. It is simply an extraordinary piece of television, a bloody revenger's tragedy brought to the small screen with Holmes's script milked for electrifying tension at every opportunity by Graeme Harper's phenomenal direction. There was a discussion on GB recently about just how difficult, on a technical level, it was to bring any amount of directorial flair to the frankly primitive set-up of the BBC studios at the time (never mind added constraints like severe time restrictions etc.), which makes it all the more remarkable that Harper managed to incorporate so many flourishes. Another thing that goes mostly unnoticed (because you're riveted to the performances) is that, as was often the case for stories near the end of a season, it looks incredibly cheap - the cave sets are impressively vertiginous, but apart from that, the other sets have practically nothing to them. 

Unfortunately no amount of smoke-filled shots can disguise the awfulness of the Magma Beast, but even that's OK, because you just have to imagine it's a clunky, basic-level android, built by Jek to scare the military away from the tunnels, and it's fine.

And to think we could have had David Bowie as Sharaz Jek.

[purlieu]

RIP Philip Martin, creator of Sil and writers of Vengeance of Varos, Mindwarp and Mission to Magnus. Died at the age of 82.

[purlieu]

A quick snippet from First Frontier that I just came to:

"If you were sleep-walking, it must have been quite a nightmare," the man opined in a noticeable Scottish accent.
"You wouldn't know," Jack muttered through a raw throat.
"Don't be too sure; I once had one where all my old foes chased me round a soap opera."

[Malcy]

A quick snippet from First Frontier that I just came to:

"If you were sleep-walking, it must have been quite a nightmare," the man opined in a noticeable Scottish accent.
"You wouldn't know," Jack muttered through a raw throat.
"Don't be too sure; I once had one where all my old foes chased me round a soap opera."

Brilliant.

[Deanjam]

Mark Eden has died aged 92. Marco Polo in Doctor Who of course, but also appeared in a lot of cult 60s shows like The Avengers & The Saint. First role was a bit part in the original Quatermass and the Pit. Best known to the masses as tram-enthusiast Alan Bradley in Coronation Street.

[George White]

Oh! Well I'd never have recognised him from that cover. Don't think I've seen him since about 1996. Did they get Constable Habib in as the Rani?

No, she played the Rani's mum.
Well, Rani's mum in sarah Jane Adventures.

[Bingo Fury]

Looking back through the thread, no one's posted the covers of these LPs, which came out a few months ago and are so gorgeous (at least the Marco Polo one is) I think they deserve to be shared.

[Malcy]

They are very nice and I've considered buying them at times but they're (like a lot of Who stuff) a bit too expensive for what they are. I think the vinyl themselves are usually produced in different colours or splatters and at times related to the story.

If I can I'm going to treat myself to Eccleston's first return audio on vinyl. Probably long sold out though...

[daf]

Still available to pre-order on the Big Finish Website - limited to 1000 copies. Triple vinyl gatefold sleeve at £35.99 - which a seems a fairly decent price.

[Replies From View]

It's such a mess.  So many of those Big Finish audios show Chris Eccleston on the cover but don't actually feature his real voice.  Most people won't be able to know the difference.

[Malcy]

Still available to pre-order on the Big Finish Website - limited to 1000 copies. Triple vinyl gatefold sleeve at £35.99 - which a seems a fairly decent price.

Ooh cracking Daf. I thought there was no way that wouldn't have sold out within a couple of days of being announced that I never bothered to check, cheers! I was so skint when it went up for pre-order and didn't want to fling my last few bob on something I wouldn't see for the best part of a year.

Eccleston Who was a massive thing for me so to have this delivered on I assume the day of release would be fab and it seems cheaper than I originally thought.

Also this one completely passed me by.

https://www.bigfinish.com/releases/v/doctor-who-the-doctor-chronicles-the-ninth-doctor-1628

Maybe I thought it was Nick Briggs doing the voice again and just disregarded it.

[daf]

Also this one completely passed me by.

https://www.bigfinish.com/releases/v/doctor-who-the-doctor-chronicles-the-ninth-doctor-1628

Maybe I thought it was Nick Briggs doing the voice again and just disregarded it.

No, you were right the first time, that one is Nick Briggs narrating - which means he's doing the Doctor's voice.

The thing to look out for on the covers are the words 'Chronicles' or 'Adventures' -

Adventures = Real Doctor's voice
Chronicles = impersonator *

As Replies mentions, the casual fan won't be able to know the difference - and I suspect some might get the wrong one by mistake, and come away feeling cheated.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
* I assume 'Chronicles' is a nod to their old 'Companion Chronicles' range - which covered the first three Doctors stories through a semi-narrrated style featuring an original companion where they would 'do' the Doctor's voice. I didn't mind that, as there was no other option due to the actors being dead, and there was at least some connection to the original actors via the companion.

[Malcy]

Nick Briggs doing Eccleston wasn't even necessary. The other actors can still carry a story and just narrate what the Doctor says. I'm sure I listened to a couple like that with Camille Coduri.

[frajer]

Nick Briggs doing Eccleston wasn't even necessary. The other actors can still carry a story and just narrate what the Doctor says. I'm sure I listened to a couple like that with Camille Coduri.

I'd have preferred that sort of Companion Chronicles set-up too.

A lot of reviewers are full of praise for Briggs' Eccleston impersonation, but to me it sounds distractingly bad and cartoonishly Northern. Like Wallace (of and Gromit) if he'd had a blow to the skull.

It's a shame, because the stories in the Ninth Doctor Chronicles set are all very good and capture that era really well. The Murray Gold-esque score feels particularly "right". If you're a fan of the RTD era I'd say it's worth a punt when next in a sale.

[JamesTC]

The Early Adventures range used the full cast setup with narration for The Doctor and work incredibly well from what I've heard. The first two series are two of the best runs of stories Big Finish has done.

[Replies From View]

No, you were right the first time, that one is Nick Briggs narrating - which means he's doing the Doctor's voice.

The thing to look out for on the covers are the words 'Chronicles' or 'Adventures' -

Adventures = Real Doctor's voice
Chronicles = impersonator *

As Replies mentions, the casual fan won't be able to know the difference - and I suspect some might get the wrong one by mistake, and come away feeling cheated.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
* I assume 'Chronicles' is a nod to their old 'Companion Chronicles' range - which covered the first three Doctors stories through a semi-narrrated style featuring an original companion where they would 'do' the Doctor's voice. I didn't mind that, as there was no other option due to the actors being dead, and there was at least some connection to the original actors via the companion.

It's an aggravatingly arbitrary distinction.  It's something that might seem obvious to the people involved in making them, or those who obsessively buy every release, but to anyone outside that particular bubble, just curious to encounter Eccleston's first involvement with the show since 2005, there's nothing there to latch onto to guide you.

I'm personally never going to remember which one out of 'adventures' and 'chronicles' is the correct one to get.  That bit of information is never going to slip into my long-term memory, nor do I want it sitting there, taking up room.  But at least I know there is a difference - many people won't.

It should be like food packaging.  If it doesn't contain real strawberries don't show strawberries on the cover, unless you also have "serving suggestion" alongside the picture in tiny writing.

[daf]

I wonder if Eccleston even knows about the Chronicles range!

I always felt that if they'd have got Jon Culshaw in to do some 'Fourth Doctor Chronicles' in the ten years or so when he was holding out, Tom Baker would never have agreed to come on board.

[frajer]

I understand why Big Finish did what they did with the New Series "Doctor Chronicles" range from a business point of view, as they were paying for a New Series licence before they had any of the new series Doctors secured (hence early releases like "The Churchill Years" with Ian McNeice narrating the Doctor's lines).

However I'm very glad they were able to secure Tennant, and now Eccleston, as it did feel like a bit of a swizz to see a big picture of Eccleston and then "narrated by Nicholas Briggs" underneath. Not saying Big Finish were doing it deliberately, but I'm certain people will have bought that thinking it would be Eccleston in the role.

[daf]

Here we go - this is the cover of the first Christopher Eccleston box set :

The Ninth Doctor Adventures: Ravagers is now available for pre-order; the stories included in this first volume are :  "Sphere of Freedom", "Cataclysm"  and "Food Fight". Joining Christopher Eccleston on his first audio odyssey through time and space are Camilla Beeput as Nova, a galley chef from the Sphere of Freedom enlisted by the Doctor to stop a dastardly plan, and Jayne McKenna as Audrey, the oldest gamer in Freedom City (although there may be more to her than meets the eye).

Christopher Eccleston : "It was lovely coming back to play the role again, due to Nicholas's writing. I was surprised at how very quickly I seemed to recall the choices I made fifteen years ago. It was an odd experience; the Ninth Doctor's still hanging around."

Nicholas Briggs : "It's been an honor working with Chris again – it's truly thrilling to hear him in studio, inhabiting the Ninth Doctor like he'd never been away! Writing and directing Doctor Who stories never gets old for me, and I'm so excited for people to hear what we've been up to. It's been a delight to kick off The Ninth Doctor Adventures series with Chris, and I know that my fellow writers and directors are cooking up some great stuff for the next box set."

[crankshaft]

The ENTIRE THING written by Nick Briggs? Good luck to him, but I'm out.

[daf]

A bit like when Tom Baker started - with Briggs getting first dibs on scripts (and directing) for the first few years - he does seem to be a safe pair of hands in terms of keeping the actors happy, and I guess they just want to ease Eccleston in gently - before letting someone like Nev Fountain have a nibble!

[Malcy]

Think there's going to be 4 sets in total and his quote makes it seem that they'll be doing the others.

[daf]

Yes, It's just Nick getting his 'reward' really - I suppose there was a risk that Chris might change his mind after a few, so he's just making sure his stories are in the can.

I expect the big guns like John Dorney and Jonathan Morris will get their chance in the 2nd, 3rd and 4th sets.

[daf]

A fair amount of this Classic Who chat will be overlooked by people who care about Classic Who and not Chibnall Who.

Good point - link to the Classic Who chat >>>  here

[purlieu]

Doctor Who and the Marvellous Cleavage First Frontier by David A. McIntee


Fucking hell.
I mean, that should have been a good book. All the ingredients are right. Ace is standing in front of a crashed flying saucer in a US desert. People are being abducted by typical 'gray' aliens, then sent back to Earth to tell the population that the aliens come in peace and we are all brothers. The aliens themselves, the Tzun, are one of the most interesting adversaries I've come across in Who: formerly warriors who now only conquer to keep their buggered genetic line going, offering a peaceful and mutually beneficial joining to every race they come across. The Master is here, still part-Cheetah, and he regenerates! There's a prologue in which the whole TARDIS crew are killed. Ace and Benny say 'smeg' a lot. It has potential be a fun mix of pastiche, enjoyable pulp and intriguing character moments.
And yet what McIntee brings, instead, is a full list of samey airforce bases, airforce personal, military black projects, aircraft names, forgettable airforce personnel, interchangeable, daftly named alien sub-species, and page after page of utterly dull prose that stopped me from ever getting past more than around 25 pages without having to put the book down out of utter boredom. Once the plot has been foiled, and the Tzun, in a nice twist, decide to leave Earth, acknowledging that it would be wasteful and dishonourable to destroy or forcefully conquer the planet, it then putters on towards a totally pointless coda section in which The Master is a tedious bastard trying to destroy things. The threat gone, I found myself reading paragraphs without taking in any information at all, realising I had no idea what I'd just read, and being able to carry on without going back because everything is just a long stream of turgid nonsense and drawn out action sequences. As for the 'they all die' prologue, I must have missed something, because I literally have no idea how it relates to anything else that happened in the book.
The Doctor, Ace, Benny and The Master are all competently drawn out, and the Tzun, as a species, have a lot of potential for brilliance. That's about the only positive I can give this book though.
I'm not sure what happened to McIntee in the mid-'90s, but I found his final MA and his PDAs excellent; conversely, his other Virgin books so far have been really quite dull, and this is the worst offender yet.

Also, the real life version of the cover costume doesn't quite live up to its original incarnation.

[daf]

Also, the real life version of the cover costume doesn't quite live up to its original incarnation.

Oh, I don't know - that certainly reverses the polarity of my neutron flow!

[Phil_A]

The surprise return of The Master was the big selling point of First Frontier at the time, as in "This big has an AMAZING twist you won't see coming" kind-of thing (until DWM helpfully spoiled it in their letters page not long after the book came out, thanks lads). Apart from that it's not very memorable at all, unfortunately.