Old Doctor Who - Part 4

[Peru]

Not been watching the current series then?

The current series-which I strongly dislike-is a masterpiece compared to season 24.

Edit: not a masterpiece, but merely the presence of competent direction, set design, lighting and music sets it ahead.

[Replies From View]

Not been watching the current series then?

Indeed.  Chibnall is in another league of shite, and it's depressing because you have to be in a special enclave of the internet to know that anyone else agrees with you on this FACT.  Whereas it was fashionable to despise Doctor Who in 1987.  Easy-peasy.


'Time and the Rani' could have been interesting if it had gone ahead as originally planned - Colin wouldn't only have returned for a regeneration scene as many youtubers claim, but the entire story.  It would have been a sixth Doctor story, with him sacrificing himself at the end instead of that random Lakertyan character.  It's not a great start to a new Doctor to let someone die for you, is it.  But the sixth Doctor could have regenerated in the seventh at the end of it, turning 'Paradise Towers' into Sylvester McCoy's messing-around-trying-on-costumes story.

I have a soft spot for 'Paradise Towers' because I saw it when I was 7 and I found it frightening.  There's something unsettling about this era of Doctor Who which might not make sense to slightly older or younger people.  I never really noticed the pantomime or cheap aspects of - it was an inexplicably nightmarish story with a deep sense of foreboding running through it.  Even 'Time and the Rani' spooked me at the time, because the Doctor was being tricked by the Rani's disguise as Mel.

[Replies From View]

The current series-which I strongly dislike-is a masterpiece compared to season 24.

Edit: not a masterpiece, but merely the presence of competent direction, set design, lighting and music sets it ahead.

Goodness me, mate!  Incorrect!!

[Peru]

Goodness me, mate!  Incorrect!!

Well, I'm not claiming it's anything other than my opinion. But season 24 has dreadful scripts, the performances are atrocious with the exception of McCoy and Aldred, the show looks like a school panto, the music (esp Paradise Towers) sounds like a preset on a keyboard, the costumes are dreadful, the lighting and direction are godawful....I mean there's absolutely nothing down for it. Conversely I'm a big fan of seasons 25/26, where they really pulled it together (probably because they didn't put it together in six weeks).

The new series are badly written and often poorly acted, but at least it actually looks like something that was coherently put together.

[Gurke and Hare]

£44.99 actually, and if you order it from Amazon you could get it for £39.99 and they've got a £5 off (for any order over £25) - type in DISCOUNT5P in the vouchers box at the checkout.

Limited to the first 10,000, but it was still available this morning, so worth a go (only works once though!)

Yoink! Thank you.

[JamesTC]

Just the 25 hours of behind the scenes footage.

[Poison To The Mind]

You have to chuck out a dud every now and then, you can't just leave them all until the end. Anyway, it's not as bad as its reputation suggests. Yes, the first story is the worst thing ever, but the rest is good. Yes, it is.

This guy knows what's up. Androzani -> Twin Dilemma is the hugest drop in quality between consecutive Who stories, and Time+Rani -> Paradise Towers is the hugest leap. Yes, it looks like it was made for fivepence and some chewing gum for an audience of children in an after-school timeslot, but - crucially - it was. But from a standing start with no previous experience and about six weeks to get a story from written to shot & edited, Cartmel (via Wyatt) manages to crack out a 2000AD-style take on JG Ballard that absolutely works for seven-year-olds watching between homework and dinner. Feminist anarchist street gangs! Capitalism in decline! Petty bureaucracy being designed to make the poor's life worse, instead of uplifting them! Lovely old ladies who invite you in for tea are actually so monstrously lonely they just want to sap your vitality to eke out another day of misery! Repeatedly pointing out that masculinity is a brain trap that doesn't actually apply to real world situations!

The lighting's rubbish and the robots are the second-cheapest crap imaginable, but the ideas is exactly what Dr Who should be pumping into the impressionable brains of the western world's pre-teens. Also, the original score you can switch to on the discs is better than the done-in-a-weekend replacement that went to air.

Honestly, when I see interviews of him from this era I think he could have been a good Doctor.  He had a quiet, dry, eccentric wit that came across when he could be relaxed and spontaneous. 

As daf suggested, Colin is the best audio Doctor (not least because he reads the scripts first and gives feedback - Davison is too successful to give a shit, and you can literally hear Sylv pause during lines while he turns the pages sometimes). Additional recommendations: Holy Terror, Jubilee, The One Doctor (this is a S24-style light comedy), and the "100" anthology.

Colin watching S24 and clowning on it, from this trailer, looks like a decent enough bonus feature all in itself.

[jamiefairlie]

I do think both Tom Baker and McGann are excellent audio Doctors too. Colin Baker certainly is the biggest improvement in TV to audio.

[Bad Ambassador]

Peter Davison cheerfully slags off his own stories, so he'll be a treat here.

[McDead]

I keep rewatching the trailer. Cant wait for this.

[purlieu]

The novelisation of Paradise Towers doesn't fix all the problems - a lot of the naff dialogue is still there - but it certainly gives a much better idea of what the story should be. There are plenty of excellent ideas in there - as Poison To The Mind points out above - but good television should be more than simply ideas. If the dialogue, acting, direction, set design, lightning and score are all appalling then it's still difficult to call it much more than bad telly, even if it's bad telly that meant well.

[jamiefairlie]

It comes across like a pantomime and that doesn't work for Dr Who, which needs a core of seriousness to work well.

[Tilt Araiza]

The bellowing, stomping Doctor.  Not my cup of tea personally but my preference has always been for nuanced and interesting things rather than that kind of one-note, big-faced, overly actorish stuff.  You're not miles away on a stage, Colin!  You can try something more subtle!

I don't think Colin was in complete command of his own performance. While he does have a naturally stagy quality, he has other settings other than "floor it". But to get the best out of him, he'd need to have a supportive production around him to properly discuss how to play The Doctor. Here's a clip of him as Paul Merroney and it's heightened and theatrical, but still pitched at the right level for the scene. I don't think he had to be the shouty Doctor, but enough stuff was going wrong or not being done behind the scenes that he just seems to bellow because he's not really been told what he's meant to be doing.

[Poison To The Mind]

I do think both Tom Baker and McGann are excellent audio Doctors too. Colin Baker certainly is the biggest improvement in TV to audio.

Probably a better way to put it, yes.  I haven't heard any of the Tom Big Finishes either, it basically takes a Nev Fountain script to get me motivated to sift through their hundreds of hours of chaff these days.

[daf]

Yes, his audios tend to be pretty 'trad. arr.', but I was thinking the other day, just the fact that Tom Baker is still making new Doctor Who stories is something that never fails to put a spring in my step (I swear, one of these days I'm going to wake up and find this has all been a mad dream!)

I'd recommend Foe From the Future - it's free on spotify - it was his first one to be recorded (based on the original story Talons became) - and is still considered one of his best.

Other ones you might dip into are the 'pure historical' Wrath of the Iceni (Leela v Boudicca), The Auntie Matter (Romana 1 v PG Wodehouse), and the pair of Jago & Litefoot guest stories : Justice of Jalxar (with Leela), and The Beast of Kravenos - which has J&L meeting K9 and Romana 2.

[Replies From View]

I don't think Colin was in complete command of his own performance. While he does have a naturally stagy quality, he has other settings other than "floor it". But to get the best out of him, he'd need to have a supportive production around him to properly discuss how to play The Doctor. Here's a clip of him as Paul Merroney and it's heightened and theatrical, but still pitched at the right level for the scene. I don't think he had to be the shouty Doctor, but enough stuff was going wrong or not being done behind the scenes that he just seems to bellow because he's not really been told what he's meant to be doing.

If only they'd had an assistant there in the wings going "Psssst!  Try not bellowing during this scene!!" and the sixth Doctor would have churned out some nuance every couple of episodes.

[Camp Tramp]

Listening to Colin in the audios has definitely rehabilitated him in my eyes (or ears in those cases)

[Replies From View]

Maybe I should close my eyes during his television episodes.

[Camp Tramp]

Maybe I should close my eyes during his television episodes.

Good advice for most 80s 'Who. The sets are often overlit.

[Replies From View]

I have already resolved the overlighting issue by giving myself arc eye on purpose.

[McDead]

Just turn down the colour and brightness, and turn up the contrast.

[Poison To The Mind]

If the dialogue, acting, direction, set design, lightning and score are all appalling then it's still difficult to call it much more than bad telly, even if it's bad telly that meant well.

Just caught half the last episode on TV, by mega coincidence. Dialogue is fine - lightly stagey, but I don't come to Who for realism (and Wyatt was a playwright, so...). Acting is still totally fine for childrens' TV. Sets are perfectly convincing persuasive as decayed flats and corridors: obviously sets, but you can't expect them to go on location to a real future tower-block-planet. Lighting is far less overblown than most of 1982-87. There are some really great visual set-ups where, eg., the viewer is looking through translucent red Space Venetian Blinds, over the shoulder of Adolf Briers in his excellent, funny uniform, to a bank of surveillance screens, one of which Dr Sylv has hacked into and is trolling Briers on. Keff sucks as usual, but on the DVD/Blu you can switch him off and play the proper score. VERDICT: great kids' telly.

Other ones you might dip into are... The Auntie Matter(Romana 1 v PG Wodehouse)

OK sold!

[A Hat Like That]

Paradise Towers is very flawed but its the first hints of good in years.

Compare with practically everything in Trial of a Time Lord.

[Camp Tramp]

Who did the original score for Paradise Towers?

[Bad Ambassador]

David Snell.

[Replies From View]

David Snell.

What's the story with his score being replaced by Keff?


Keffing Snell would make an immense lovechild.  I hope it's not too late for them to spawn one.

[purlieu]

Just caught half the last episode on TV, by mega coincidence. Dialogue is fine - lightly stagey, but I don't come to Who for realism (and Wyatt was a playwright, so...). Acting is still totally fine for childrens' TV. Sets are perfectly convincing persuasive as decayed flats and corridors: obviously sets, but you can't expect them to go on location to a real future tower-block-planet. Lighting is far less overblown than most of 1982-87. There are some really great visual set-ups where, eg., the viewer is looking through translucent red Space Venetian Blinds, over the shoulder of Adolf Briers in his excellent, funny uniform, to a bank of surveillance screens, one of which Dr Sylv has hacked into and is trolling Briers on. Keff sucks as usual, but on the DVD/Blu you can switch him off and play the proper score. VERDICT: great kids' telly.

Thing is, earlier Doctor Who didn't have any of these problems you're trying to excuse, and was definitely great kids' telly. Who, at its best, is family telly. Paradise Towers definitely isn't.

[Malcy]

Saw the Dalek scene in It's A Sin. Was very much meant to be the scene from Resurrection when the Daleks blow through the door and attack the soldiers. I bet RTD was loving the fact that he got 'Daleks created by Terry Nation' and Dalek 1 & Dalek 2 on to credits of something again.

[jamiefairlie]

Thing is, earlier Doctor Who didn't have any of these problems you're trying to excuse, and was definitely great kids' telly. Who, at its best, is family telly. Paradise Towers definitely isn't.

Aye, and plenty great scary kids TV show in the 70s that didn't cut quality corners and play it all like a big fucking laugh.

[Replies From View]

Don't forget Doctor Who was responding to complaints that it had become too violent and scary.  It couldn't win.

Anyway I did find Paradise Towers scary as a seven year old - I told you.