Tip jar

If you like CaB and wish to support it, you can use PayPal or KoFi. Thank you, and I hope you continue to enjoy the site - Neil.

Buy Me a Coffee at ko-fi.com

Support CaB

Recent

Welcome to Cook'd and Bomb'd. Please login or sign up.

March 29, 2024, 10:43:47 AM

Login with username, password and session length

Vaccine Progress

Started by Sheffield Wednesday, June 07, 2020, 08:49:48 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

El Unicornio, mang

Quote from: Cuellar on November 10, 2020, 11:14:50 AM
Although, he did also say 'provided they don't screw up the distribution of the vaccine', so we've probably got a couple of years left of this

There's also all the anti-vaxxers throwing a spanner in the works, and people in remote regions who are suspicious of strangers coming along and saying "you need to take this". So, a couple of years definitely possible, but at least we have a start (and a lot of other vaccines on the way).

NattyDread 2

Quote from: Blue Jam on November 10, 2020, 12:25:39 PM
That applies to all vaccines though doesn't it?

Only live vaccines I think. You're encouraged to get an early flu jab for instance, but you can only have the inactive version. You can also have subunit, recombinant, polysaccharide, and conjugate vaccines apparently.

The BBC is the only place I've seen that reported about mRNA vaccines.

Ferris

Not everyone needs it though right? If a decent percentage of people take an effective vaccine then the potential hosts in an outbreak are reduced (provided we keep some form of social distancing/masks etc).

This is the stage of the pandemic when I cease being an amateur virologist, and start being an amateur immunologist.

NattyDread 2

Quote from: FerriswheelBueller on November 10, 2020, 01:18:34 PM
provided we keep some form of social distancing/masks etc.


That's what worries me. A big 'at risk' group could possibly become more at risk should people start chucking their masks away and doing the conga in the co-op.

Ferris

I'd guess with a vaccine, there's an actual endpoint so it's an easier sell.

Rather than "make some minor adjustments indefinitely" (which I don't get why people have such problems but that's a different thread), vs "lockdown for 2 weeks, then do this for a month, then you get your normality back" or whatever the timeline/guidance is.

Hopefully the WHO comes along and gives some tangible, concrete guidelines on implementing the vaccine and returning to normal because heavily politicized governments seem incapable of handling it.

imitationleather

When will I next be having my moment in front of the speakers and giving it the big arms to the DJ as an officially recognised major head in the dance?

Ferris

Quote from: imitationleather on November 10, 2020, 01:51:29 PM
When will I next be having my moment in front of the speakers and giving it the big arms to the DJ as an officially recognised major head in the dance?

I give it 3 weeks.

magval

Quote from: NattyDread 2 on November 10, 2020, 12:13:18 PM
BBC piece on this states that those with a weak immune system won't be able to get the vaccine. That could be a proper scunner if everyone else starts throwing caution to the wind.

I hope you don't mind me asking NattyDread 2, but where are you from? I've never heard anyone outside the town I was born in say 'scunner'.

NattyDread 2

Quote from: magval on November 10, 2020, 02:29:02 PM
I hope you don't mind me asking NattyDread 2, but where are you from? I've never heard anyone outside the town I was born in say 'scunner'.

Really? I thought it was pretty common throughout Scotland.
Edinburgh/West Lothian by the way.

Rizla

Quote from: magval on November 10, 2020, 02:29:02 PM
I hope you don't mind me asking NattyDread 2, but where are you from? I've never heard anyone outside the town I was born in say 'scunner'.

Super villian leaves thread in tears

Blue Jam

Quote from: FerriswheelBueller on November 10, 2020, 01:18:34 PM
This is the stage of the pandemic when I cease being an amateur virologist, and start being an amateur immunologist.

Knowing all about strains of S. cerevisiae makes you an amateur mycologist.

MrMrs

scunnerED is very Scottish

dissolute ocelot

There's a lot of talk about how healthy under-50s won't get the vaccine for months or even years, but surely lots of businesses will pay for their staff to jump the queue, just as lots of businesses pay for flu jabs or private healthcare or private Covid tests? I can see lots of companies forcing staff to have a vaccination before they come back to the office, and paying to get it done quick.

But sorry poor people, unemployed people, people with shoddy employers, you'll go on being social outcasts till 2022.

MojoJojo

Quote from: dissolute ocelot on November 10, 2020, 03:25:07 PM
There's a lot of talk about how healthy under-50s won't get the vaccine for months or even years, but surely lots of businesses will pay for their staff to jump the queue, just as lots of businesses pay for flu jabs or private healthcare or private Covid tests? I can see lots of companies forcing staff to have a vaccination before they come back to the office, and paying to get it done quick.

But sorry poor people, unemployed people, people with shoddy employers, you'll go on being social outcasts till 2022.

It doesn't sound like this will be something you can buy - the UK government is buying it and dictating who gets it. Supply is likely to pretty constrained for a few years at least, and even the I'd be surprised if even the most die hard libertarians would argue that vaccine distribution should be handled by the free market.

In one of my local Facebook groups there's a poll asking who will choose to get the vaccine. Approximately 45% are saying they won't and the admins are furiously deleting spurious posts.

Hopefully just a sign that people who use Facebook are fucking weirdos and not a sign of a major problem to come...

Ferris

Quote from: Blue Jam on November 10, 2020, 02:51:53 PM
Knowing all about strains of S. cerevisiae makes you an amateur mycologist.

Straight on the CV.

Zetetic

Quote from: MojoJojo on November 10, 2020, 03:41:30 PM
It doesn't sound like this will be something you can buy - the UK government is buying it and dictating who gets it.
Apologies to readers in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland.

magval

Quote from: MrMrs on November 10, 2020, 03:06:16 PM
scunnerED is very Scottish

We have scundered, but depending on which area you're from it either means you're fed up or embarrassed.

I suppose Northern Irish and Scottish slang has a lot of crossover if we were to go a few generations back.

olliebean

Quote from: Blue Jam on November 10, 2020, 12:25:39 PM
That applies to all vaccines though doesn't it?

I'm wondering if we'll be able to get to 95% coverage to achieve herd immunity. I can see people being unwilling to get injected with a novel type of vaccine that has been fast-tracked through safety testing, and I don't think those people who are convinced the virus is a hoax will be queuing up.

I strongly suspect that, in the UK at least, it will be used to revive the original "just let everyone get it" herd immunity plan - the idea being that instead of needing to shield the more vulnerable people while the virus spreads through the less-at-risk population, they can just be vaccinated. Then everyone can carry on as normal, sure some people will still die but not enough to be bothered about, and if you get long Covid and end up debilitated for months on end, "Yeah well we all get tired."

imitationleather

Tonight I'm going to light a candle and say a little prayer to God in the hope that it's all a mistake and this vaccine doesn't work.

Non Stop Dancer

Quote from: MojoJojo on November 10, 2020, 03:41:30 PM
and even the I'd be surprised if even the most die hard libertarians would argue that vaccine distribution should be handled by the free market.
I think you've underestimated just how thick libertarians are and the mental contortions they're capable of in order to maintain their ridiculous world view.

Ferris

Quote from: Non Stop Dancer on November 10, 2020, 06:44:32 PM
I think you've underestimated just how thick libertarians are and the mental contortions they're capable of in order to maintain their ridiculous world view.

And don't get them started on the Dewey decimal system.

MojoJojo

Quote from: Zetetic on November 10, 2020, 05:17:53 PM
Apologies to readers in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland.

I'm not sure what your point is - I said UK government, not English, and I would say the various devolved governments are part of the UK government.

Zetetic

They're not. The regime in Westminster is the UK Government and it has unilaterally determined what will be left over for distribution to the outlying territories.

(They will be using the Barnett formula, which of course has nothing to do with, for example, the relative sizes of the health and social care workforce, extremely vulnerable populations etc.)



dissolute ocelot

Quote from: MojoJojo on November 10, 2020, 03:41:30 PM
It doesn't sound like this will be something you can buy - the UK government is buying it and dictating who gets it. Supply is likely to pretty constrained for a few years at least, and even the I'd be surprised if even the most die hard libertarians would argue that vaccine distribution should be handled by the free market.
Well that's sort of hopeful. I guess there will still be organisations trying to get the vaccine first on the basis that they're an essential service or particularly at risk - things like the BBC or the Football Association as well as care homes and schools. But hopefully it won't be used just to get the accounts team back in the office.

Cuellar

The elderly should NOT get the vaccine first. It should be distributed based on how many anti-lockdown, anti-mask, anti-vaccine memes you've sent to your family

MojoJojo

Quote from: Zetetic on November 11, 2020, 12:21:57 AM
They're not.
You have take an extremely narrow definition of "UK government" to say that the devolved governments are not a part of it. The fact we talk about the Westminster government as a thing sort of suggests that's opt the case.
Quote
The regime in Westminster is the UK Government and it has unilaterally determined what will be left over for distribution to the outlying territories.
I said the UK government would be distributing it. The devolved governments are part of that.
Quote
(They will be using the Barnett formula, which of course has nothing to do with, for example, the relative sizes of the health and social care workforce, extremely vulnerable populations etc.)
From what I've sketchily read, they'll be distributing it to the devolved governments on a population basis. Which seems reasonable - while it might be nice to take some other factors into account it's hard to see how that wouldn't turn into a complete political cluster fuck.

MojoJojo

Things it would be nice to know about the vaccine:

1) The demography of the trial. If the vaccine works well in fit young people but doesn't help the elderly, that's a bit of a pisser. Elderly people often need an adjuvant for a vaccine to be effective.
2) Related a bit to 1, how ill the 10% who got the vaccine and still caught covid got. If the vaccine prevents mild cases but doesn't help those badly effected, again that's a pisser. The trial is probably to small to give us a good idea on this.
3) The more obvious ones:
-Safety. Trial is probably too small to give us a good idea on this, and we're going to have to wait awhile
-Long term effectiveness. I'd assume the trial volunteers are having a lot of antibody and T-cell tests at the moment, but we don't have a proxy for immunity yet, so we probably just have to wait and see.

Thinking about it, the plan to vaccinate people in care homes first is pretty high risk, considering the safety and elderly effectiveness issues.

MojoJojo

Just had a look at the bbc and some newspaper headlines. To be expected I suppose, but everyone seems to be getting over excited and ahead of themselves.

Zetetic

No, "the UK Government" does not included the devolved governments. (Terminology like "the Westminster administration" is useful for emphasising the disconnect from the territories it controls but is not necessary to make it clear that you're not talking about the Welsh Government for example.)

This seems besides the point - the government in Westminster will allocate doses across the UK. (Below a certain level, other units of government will then dole out what they've been permitted.)

They've announced it will use the Barnett formula, at least with respect to NI.

You're right that taking account of actual need would turn into a clusterfuck, as it always does when it comes to fair allocation of resources across the UK under the current conditions.