Author Topic: Vaccine Progress  (Read 41894 times)

George Oscar Bluth II

  • Karma: +69 / -420
Re: Vaccine Progress
« Reply #660 on: January 10, 2021, 12:24:55 PM »
There's lots of stories in the media today about unprecedented levels of NHS staff absences that might hamper the vaccine rollout. It shocks me that they didn't jab the jabbers first. Indeed all front line staff and paramedics should've got it. That would've created the first line of defence.

Not least because it reduces the chances that some 80 year old guy who is shielding doesn't get the virus the day they're vaccinated against the virus! C'mon guys!

Cuellar

  • I'm over here
Re: Vaccine Progress
« Reply #661 on: January 10, 2021, 03:52:14 PM »
I really thought 'vaccinate the vaccinators first' was blindingly obvious. But the people in charge of this, for all the stupid shit they've done, aren't actually stupid. This must have occured to them and they must have decided 'no'. Why?

Cuellar

  • I'm over here
Re: Vaccine Progress
« Reply #662 on: January 10, 2021, 03:53:30 PM »
I suppose it's like Zeno's paradoxes: ok, vaccinate the vaccinators first, so who vaccinates the person who vaccinates the vaccinator, and who vaccinates THAT person? It's a logical paradox and was probably binned for that reason alone.

Re: Vaccine Progress
« Reply #663 on: January 10, 2021, 04:19:37 PM »
Frontline health and social care workers are included in the first two priority groups.

Dex Sawash

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Upphängningspunkterna
Re: Vaccine Progress
« Reply #664 on: January 10, 2021, 04:26:16 PM »
I suppose it's like Zeno's paradoxes: ok, vaccinate the vaccinators first, so who vaccinates the person who vaccinates the vaccinator, and who vaccinates THAT person? It's a logical paradox and was probably binned for that reason alone.

The chicken was allergic to egg, i reckon

pancreas

  • The islets of Langerhans are the very best islets
Re: Vaccine Progress
« Reply #665 on: January 10, 2021, 05:01:13 PM »
I suppose it's like Zeno's paradoxes: ok, vaccinate the vaccinators first, so who vaccinates the person who vaccinates the vaccinator, and who vaccinates THAT person? It's a logical paradox and was probably binned for that reason alone.

It's more like Aquinas. You need a first mover. Or, as I would do it, just have two of the cunts stab each other at the same time.

MojoJojo

  • Member
  • **
  • Between a cow college and a MetaLab.
Re: Vaccine Progress
« Reply #666 on: January 11, 2021, 09:51:34 AM »
I really thought 'vaccinate the vaccinators first' was blindingly obvious. But the people in charge of this, for all the stupid shit they've done, aren't actually stupid. This must have occured to them and they must have decided 'no'. Why?

Frontline health and social care workers are included in the first two priority groups.

In addition to this, since the vaccination services have a good idea of how to contact and where a lot of NHS staff are at anytime, they are being used to fill missed vaccination slots, which is efficient logistically and means they getted vaccinated faster than the simple priority list would suggest.

Re: Vaccine Progress
« Reply #667 on: January 11, 2021, 11:12:02 AM »
no cunt knows any cunt round here who's had it

Cuellar

  • I'm over here
Re: Vaccine Progress
« Reply #668 on: January 11, 2021, 11:15:23 AM »
It's more like Aquinas. You need a first mover. Or, as I would do it, just have two of the cunts stab each other at the same time.

I suppose you could get a robot to jab the first one.

sirhenry

  • That worked out well...
Re: Vaccine Progress
« Reply #669 on: January 11, 2021, 11:34:32 AM »
Just get the first one to fall on a syringe.

Re: Vaccine Progress
« Reply #670 on: January 11, 2021, 01:49:13 PM »
no cunt knows any cunt round here who's had it

I've set to see a single corona, and I'm particularly observant.

Re: Vaccine Progress
« Reply #671 on: January 12, 2021, 07:24:23 PM »
There's a decent layman's explanation of why delaying the second dose is such a disastrously bad idea here: https://thegreatcritique.wordpress.com/2021/01/11/is-blairs-three-month-second-dose-delay-idea-really-so-bad-yes-i-am-afraid-it-is/

Zetetic

  • I wasn't supposed to be around this long, so…
Re: Vaccine Progress
« Reply #672 on: January 12, 2021, 07:47:15 PM »
Raising the concern of promoting a situation that leads to a selective pressure alongside a reservoir of disease in a single person - fine.

It doesn't go anywhere near the relevant point which is what the protective benefit of the first dose is between 4-12 weeks compared with the two-doses-within-three-weeks schedule.

Eliding vaccines and antibiotics as 'medicine' isn't helpful here.

Nor is eliding Tony Blair and the JCVI.

MojoJojo

  • Member
  • **
  • Between a cow college and a MetaLab.
Re: Vaccine Progress
« Reply #673 on: January 12, 2021, 11:15:14 PM »
There's a decent layman's explanation of why delaying the second dose is such a disastrously bad idea here: https://thegreatcritique.wordpress.com/2021/01/11/is-blairs-three-month-second-dose-delay-idea-really-so-bad-yes-i-am-afraid-it-is/

This annoys me a fair bit. It's a just a rant about Tony Blair, and then they attempt some "science" by confusing advice about antibiotics with vaccines.

It's just propagating useless, damaging, ignorance. I'd tell the tosser to stick to politics, but that article is shit politics too.

They should stick to calling Tony Blair a tosser. That's worthwhile, if maybe a bit irrelevant nowadays.

Re: Vaccine Progress
« Reply #674 on: January 13, 2021, 08:23:14 AM »
The idea that allowing the virus to spread amongst people who are only partially protected by the vaccine will allow any vaccine-resistant mutations to thrive seems sound, though.

MojoJojo

  • Member
  • **
  • Between a cow college and a MetaLab.
Re: Vaccine Progress
« Reply #675 on: January 13, 2021, 09:29:45 AM »
The idea that allowing the virus to spread amongst people who are only partially protected by the vaccine will allow any vaccine-resistant mutations to thrive seems sound, though.

It's really not though - it's not like taking half a course of antibiotics. When a single does of a vaccine is described as 50% effective or whatever that doesn't mean that patients have half an immune response. It means 50% of patients who had a single dose were calculated to still be vulnerable to the virus from the trial data. A lot* of those people won't have any immune response at all - the body won't have noticed the vaccine. It's not like half doses of antibodies, where a a population of bacteria are kept in prolonged exposure to the antibody instead of being wiped out. Once the bodies immune system kicks in, it can kill the virus fairly effectively.

Vaccine resistance is much, much rarer than antibiotic drug resistance, and no bacteria or virus has evolved a response to vaccines that has had a significant effect on public health.

(* I have to make the caveat here that the immune response is ridiculously complicated, and I'm not going to make absolute statements about it)
« Last Edit: January 13, 2021, 10:11:21 AM by MojoJojo »

Zetetic

  • I wasn't supposed to be around this long, so…
Re: Vaccine Progress
« Reply #676 on: January 13, 2021, 09:58:13 AM »
no bacteria or virus has evolved a response to vaccines that has had a significant effect on [public] health.
Arguably flu does this multiple times, every single year - but it's absolutely not down to people having partial vaccine protection from a particular strain and acting as personal incubators for vaccine-resistant strains, and everything to do with having large reservoirs in humans and other animals (and a general tendency towards constant antigenic drift within those populations).

the midnight watch baboon

  • Gelled, spiky hair fragrant near my teeth
Re: Vaccine Progress
« Reply #677 on: January 13, 2021, 10:09:03 AM »
I'm a swabber, immuniser and Nightingaler and await my vaccination. To be fair I have only worked as a swabber so far due to being ghosted by the Imms and Nightingale people. It is incred. frustrating.

Fambo Number Mive

  • Golden Member
  • *****
  • MAKE ROOM FOR THE MUSHROOMS
Re: Vaccine Progress
« Reply #678 on: January 14, 2021, 05:47:12 PM »
Quote
A large London plumbing firm plans to rewrite all of its workers' contracts to require them to be vaccinated against coronavirus.

Pimlico Plumbers chairman Charlie Mullins said it was "a no-brainer" that workers should get the jab.

If they do not want to comply with the policy, it will be decided on a case-by-case basis whether they are kept on, he said.

Employment lawyers said the plan carried risks for the business - saying people who refuse vaccination and are dismissed may have grounds to make a legal claim...

I presume they wouldn't be able to get rid of people who couldn't have the vaccine for medical reasons.

Fambo Number Mive

  • Golden Member
  • *****
  • MAKE ROOM FOR THE MUSHROOMS
Re: Vaccine Progress
« Reply #679 on: January 15, 2021, 10:12:29 AM »
BBC claims Indonesia is vaccinating its social media influencers, so they “hopefully convey positive influence and messages” to other young people about the vaccine.

Cuellar

  • I'm over here
Re: Vaccine Progress
« Reply #680 on: January 15, 2021, 03:34:29 PM »
Quote from: that guardian
An NHS boss in the West Midlands has implored for people to take the vaccine amid rising pressure on medical staff as hospitalisations, ICU admissions, and mortality rates continue to increase across the county.

Still just blows my MIND that people need to be 'implored' to get the vaccine. Can't we punt all these morons off to an island like Priti Patel wanted to do to asylum seekers? A floating prison? A COD:WarZone style fight to the death on an irradiated atoll somewhere?

Fambo Number Mive

  • Golden Member
  • *****
  • MAKE ROOM FOR THE MUSHROOMS
Re: Vaccine Progress
« Reply #681 on: January 15, 2021, 05:51:23 PM »
Quote
Sebastian Payne, of the Financial Times, asks what will happen to the rest of society once the most vulnerable are inoculated.

Boris Johnson says it is the question which preoccupies most of us at the moment.

"Let's focus for now on getting those cohorts, the JCVI [Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation] groups one-to-four - the over-70s, the over-80s - vaccinated and I think that will already make a huge difference," he says.

He adds there is a "debate to be had" on what happens after that, "and we will make sure everybody has a chance to have their say"...

It's very concerning that the government don't have a plan for the second stage of the rollout. It would seem logical to prioritise frontline workers such as teachers, paramedics, delivery workers etc in this second stage.

Re: Vaccine Progress
« Reply #682 on: January 15, 2021, 05:58:21 PM »
More likely to be remainers. Do them last.

Fambo Number Mive

  • Golden Member
  • *****
  • MAKE ROOM FOR THE MUSHROOMS
Re: Vaccine Progress
« Reply #683 on: January 15, 2021, 06:04:12 PM »
I wouldn't put it past this government to start with Tory party members for the second stage.

Quite like this comedy sketch about anti-vaxxers: https://twitter.com/Claire_Vanner/status/1350048515876122625

Shoulders?-Stomach!

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Slime-fit for a piss binge
    • http://jackanderton.jamendo.net/
Re: Vaccine Progress
« Reply #684 on: January 15, 2021, 06:27:23 PM »
Completely unfunny but if it successfully changes people's minds go for it.

Fambo Number Mive

  • Golden Member
  • *****
  • MAKE ROOM FOR THE MUSHROOMS
Re: Vaccine Progress
« Reply #685 on: January 17, 2021, 04:32:17 PM »
Raab won't guarantee that everyone in the UK will get their second COVID dose within 12 weeks.

Re: Vaccine Progress
« Reply #686 on: January 17, 2021, 04:44:56 PM »
Raab won't guarantee that everyone in the UK will get their second COVID dose within 12 weeks.
Legend!

Fambo Number Mive

  • Golden Member
  • *****
  • MAKE ROOM FOR THE MUSHROOMS
Re: Vaccine Progress
« Reply #687 on: January 20, 2021, 05:13:49 PM »
Very concerning report regarding how vaccination is going in Israel:

Quote
The man coordinating Israel’s pandemic response, Nachman Ash, has warned that a single dose of the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine in the country has been “less effective than we thought”.

According to Israeli Army Radio, Prof Ash told cabinet members on Tuesday the data on the protective effect of a first dose against the virus was “lower than Pfizer presented”. Pfizer said its vaccine was roughly 52% effective two weeks after the first dose and reaches maximum efficacy of 95% after the second.

It’s not clear what data he is referring to, but a not-yet published study from Israel’s largest healthcare provider suggested a 33% fall in infections by day 14, at which point, full immunity would not have been reached.

Infections continued to fall in the following days but the numbers were too small to put a percentage on it.The health ministry said on Tuesday more than 12,400 Israelis had tested positive for Covid-19 ten days after being vaccinated – 69 of these had already received a second dose.

This was 6.6% of the 189,000 people who took Covid tests after being vaccinated, roughly tallying with the reported efficacy.

Health experts say they are analysing the new Israeli data closely but warn it may be too early to draw any conclusions on the single dose efficacy of the vaccine based on the initial data gathered in Israel, which began vaccinating its population on 19 December.

Will this make the UK reconsider their vaccine strategy and follow Pfzier's guidelines like most other countries do?

EDIT - not trying to put anyone off getting the Pfizer vaccine, it's still vital people have it, I'm just worried about the UK delaying the second dose. If someone offered me the Pfzier vaccine I'd take it with open arms.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2021, 06:21:56 PM by Fambo Number Mive »

Chedney Honks

  • Mood Rating (out of three): 👍👍
Re: Vaccine Progress
« Reply #688 on: January 20, 2021, 05:28:29 PM »
Absolutely no chance, but they will fire up the gaslight for anyone who dares to criticise.

MojoJojo

  • Member
  • **
  • Between a cow college and a MetaLab.
Re: Vaccine Progress
« Reply #689 on: January 20, 2021, 08:48:15 PM »
Very concerning report regarding how vaccination is going in Israel:

Will this make the UK reconsider their vaccine strategy and follow Pfzier's guidelines like most other countries do?

EDIT - not trying to put anyone off getting the Pfizer vaccine, it's still vital people have it, I'm just worried about the UK delaying the second dose. If someone offered me the Pfzier vaccine I'd take it with open arms.

Hmmm. Made me look and the pfizer study actually reports "52% (95% credible interval 29.5% to 68.4%)" so the 33% reported by Israel isn't inconsistent with that.

This doesn't really say anything about one shot verses two shot, because it's looking exclusively at the period where there is no difference between the one shot and two shot regimes. Unfortunately no one has reported on that yet. It would be reasonable to predict that the long term effectiveness of the single shot would be higher than the effectiveness in the first 2 weeks.

Tags: