Author Topic: I May Destroy You  (Read 4035 times)

Re: I May Destroy You
« Reply #30 on: July 18, 2020, 02:45:39 PM »
I thought her agents paid for the first trip, then she had to talk her friend into buying the other plane ticket because she'd maxed out her credit card(s).

I don't earn very much and I manage to have clothes and semi regularly take drugs and occasionally go on holiday, it didn't seem all that flashy to me.

Re: I May Destroy You
« Reply #31 on: July 18, 2020, 05:55:04 PM »
Didn't she ask/tell Ben at one point that he "would need to cover the rent for another month, Ok?" (I am paraphrasing and possibly mis-remembering).

Re: I May Destroy You
« Reply #32 on: July 18, 2020, 07:49:40 PM »
i can't say I really get the level of praise.
There's a show every year or so that just gets an utterly insane amount of hype with loads of writeups about how it's a game-changer for TV from now on by people who watch maybe one new show a year.

I'd say in comparison to some of the ones to get that kind of hype before (Fleabag and Master of None immediately spring to mind), it was quite a bit better and didn't do anything that totally shat on the show's overall flow (I was expecting the flatmate to be revealed as the rapist in an utterly moronic twist).
She's living in a really ran down apartment that (I assume) is either pretty far out east or in an area that's still got the occasional cheap neglected dump, and didn't seem to spend especially large amounts, I could easily do most everything she done in the show on a sub-30k salary in London (assuming zero savings)



Her being a writer was a detriment to me tbh, it seemed like a placeholder career choice to do something that both was true to her life experience but also somewhat relatable to people in general.

Re: I May Destroy You
« Reply #33 on: July 19, 2020, 09:06:37 PM »
She was living in hackney if i remember correctly.

Oh it’s certainly better and more interesting artisticly than fleabag and master of none, the second series of both was unbearable for different reasons.

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Re: I May Destroy You
« Reply #34 on: July 20, 2020, 12:17:56 AM »
I thought it was great overall, didn't notice much a of a dip in quality. It helped that the episodes were 30 mins long.

Don't get the fuss over whether someone like her could afford that lifestyle. There are loads of people in their 20s in London who don't have much but spend what they have on getting fucked up and looking fabulous.

One thing that did push the believability was the kid who got accused of rape being allowed out into the playground to be with his friends when it was disproved. He definitely would've been sent straight home and suspended for having sex on school property!

I don't know what to make of the finale. It felt like she didn't know how to end it, which I know is essentially what the character is doing in the story, but it's a bit having your cake and eating it.

Overall I'm glad that something like this has been made which manages to explore the grey areas of live issues like consent, gender, etc. in a funny honest and not at all hectoring or try-hard way.

Would series two just follow the characters and mark this storyline as done? I could see it getting a soapy. TBF I did warm to Terry and Kwame, and the lonely flatmate, so wouldn't be averse to seeing more of them.

Re: I May Destroy You
« Reply #35 on: July 26, 2020, 07:23:34 PM »
Spoilers if it matters -> Also agree with most of what's been said. Overall a very enjoyable show I looked forward to, full of fresh and interesting choices but just a little let down by a saggy final act. It was difficult for me to square the final few episodes with the vitality of the first and without that 'thriller' element (the friend betrayal was particularly glossed over and even out of character given Arabella's previous outbursts) it sort of petered out and I stopped caring. I was fine with the magic realism but magic realism PLUS muddled multiple endings was too much for me.

And the rapist being such an incidental character by that point made the melodrama all the more galling.

(I was expecting the flatmate to be revealed as the rapist in an utterly moronic twist).

I was so convinced of this it made me wonder if they'd flashed his face early on. But thinking about it they probably cast lookalikes intentionally.

mrfridge

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Re: I May Destroy You
« Reply #36 on: July 26, 2020, 08:46:10 PM »
.
I was so convinced of this it made me wonder if they'd flashed his face early on. But thinking about it they probably cast lookalikes intentionally.

I though he was the rapist too, based purely on the fact that the character was utterly pointless otherwise. He didn’t do anything that one of Arabella’s other friends (with whom we spent far more time) couldn’t have easily done. I enjoyed the series a lot but I thought both the flat mate and, to a lesser extent, the school mate who ran the abuse help group were just not very well fleshed out. The latter did initially feel like she would have a pivotal role but she just faded into the background in the later episodes. It was still great but a tight 8-10 episode would have been perfect I think.

I’ll definitely be watching whatever Micheala Coel does next. I rattled through Chewing Gum on Netflix last week and relistened to her appearance on Adam Buxton’s podcast and she really does seem like a unique talent.

Puce Moment

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Re: I May Destroy You
« Reply #37 on: July 27, 2020, 11:17:29 AM »
There seems to be some discussion about biphobia in this at the moment. Is a male character expected to tell a potential female sex partner about their previous encounters with men? If so, is that attitude applauded or criticised?

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Re: I May Destroy You
« Reply #38 on: July 27, 2020, 11:46:04 AM »
There seems to be some discussion about biphobia in this at the moment. Is a male character expected to tell a potential female sex partner about their previous encounters with men? If so, is that attitude applauded or criticised?

Like with a lot of the issues this programme explores, I don't think it's 100% clear cut either way. SPOILERS: Kwame tells the girl who he has just slept with that he's gay, and not in a sort of "by the way I sleep with men most of the time" but pretty definitively. She reacts badly because she feels she's been lied to, and says some pretty homophobic/radfem things. This is the same girl who replaces the n word with "ninja" while singing along to a song, so obvs it's about showing that we all harbour prejudices no matter the other views we hold.

The main character reacts badly when she hears what Kwame has done because she's quite far down the rabbithole of examining consent and feels that his actions were deceptive. But then they kiss and make up. Kwame meets up with the girl to apologise but she's still angry and says she should be cancelled.

Personally, I couldn't quite get the fuss over why the girl was so annoyed and instinctively felt that she was in the wrong. I don't think the show criticises/applauds either way, though our sympathies are meant to lvie with Kwame. However, Kwame's seducing of the girl is definitely viewed as a gay guy experimenting rather than someone who is bisexual - Kwame returns to exclusively dating men after his encounter with the girl. I guess that opens a can of worms about how to define bisexuality but I dunno fuckit POST

Puce Moment

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Re: I May Destroy You
« Reply #39 on: July 27, 2020, 12:04:55 PM »
Thanks, that's really helpful. I'm not threadshitting - I'm just trying to find out if they deal with this idea of shaming based on previous sexual experience, particularly when they are gay. I'm fascinated by the idea of a character being judged for this sort of thing.

Non Stop Dancer

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Re: I May Destroy You
« Reply #40 on: July 27, 2020, 02:51:08 PM »
On the one hand, I don't really see any need for her to be freaked out that he's gay, but equally I can't help but feel that it might be polite to mention it beforehand and let her decide for herself whether or not she's happy with that. Given that it seemed pretty clear to both parties that it was a one night stand as far as I can tell, what's the difference? Would I have a right to be upset if a women I had it away with told me afterwards that she's gay? I can't see why I'd be fussed really, if all I was looking for was getting my end away.

Probably best to let the answer prancer decide.


neveragain

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Re: I May Destroy You
« Reply #41 on: July 27, 2020, 03:47:26 PM »
Yeah, I was wondering over that issue for a while but it seems the point is there's no easy answer, which is something that made me appreciate the show more (from the moment Bella went 'down the rabbithole' it became much more interesting). I read some reviews that criticised the main character being portrayed as self-righteous in her pursuit but to me those critiques can be summarised as "I like this show that challenges viewpoints except when it challenges my viewpoint".

There was also someone on Twitter saying the scenes where Kwame tries to report the assault to a copper were homophobic! For fuck's sake, use your brain. "That character's nasty, the whole show must be nasty!"

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Re: I May Destroy You
« Reply #42 on: July 27, 2020, 03:57:17 PM »
If I could criticise this show it's that some sequences were a bit on the nose, especially when it was "making a point" like the incompetent police officer during Kwame's reporting. The programme was better when it didn't have an angle to pursue and was exploring the greyer areas.

Re: I May Destroy You
« Reply #43 on: July 27, 2020, 04:17:18 PM »
I was fine with the magic realism but magic realism PLUS muddled multiple endings was too much for me.

And the rapist being such an incidental character by that point made the melodrama all the more galling.

I was so convinced of this it made me wonder if they'd flashed his face early on.

I don't know how everyone missed this, there were several other faces in the bar scene in the first episode, it seemed weird how they hadn't been referred to again, and the face of the rapist was repeatedly shown in her flashbacks so I presumed it was one of the people there. I didn't think it was some whodunnit mystery thing where I was waiting for them to be revealed.

I thought the ending was good actually, it plays with some shocking/silly ideas, but really it's her going through what she would do if she did see the guy at the bar and her thoughts of revenge, forgiveness and even gets to the point of 'loving her enemy' so to speak. Ultimately the outcome is for her to pour her experiences into her art and channel her trauma in that way.

Re: I May Destroy You
« Reply #44 on: July 27, 2020, 05:41:19 PM »
Thanks, that's really helpful. I'm not threadshitting - I'm just trying to find out if they deal with this idea of shaming based on previous sexual experience, particularly when they are gay. I'm fascinated by the idea of a character being judged for this sort of thing.

I took it to be more about judging him for lying to her (by omission), rather than specifically judging on previous experiences.

Puce Moment

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Re: I May Destroy You
« Reply #45 on: July 27, 2020, 05:58:57 PM »
On the one hand, I don't really see any need for her to be freaked out that he's gay, but equally I can't help but feel that it might be polite to mention it beforehand and let her decide for herself whether or not she's happy with that.

Why would it be polite?

 
I took it to be more about judging him for lying to her (by omission), rather than specifically judging on previous experiences

Why would it be any of her business? Genuinely confused.

Non Stop Dancer

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Re: I May Destroy You
« Reply #46 on: July 27, 2020, 06:17:57 PM »
Why would it be polite?
She might be a homophobe. If she is (and she is), then despite me thinking that homophobia is a very bad thing, he's denied her right to choose.

I'm not trying to pick a fight here and certainly don't want to upset anyone. Like I mentioned before, in my mind there's no reason to be angry, but that's just me.


Re: I May Destroy You
« Reply #47 on: July 27, 2020, 06:31:23 PM »
I got the impression that the the whole thing was making the point that everything is complicated. I was going to add "nowadays" but that's wrong; it's just that nowadays things are examined and debated more closely and more openly. I think that's why I thought the end was Episode 6 and that is was pretty good and quite challenging.

I thought he girl who Kwame had the encounter with encapsulated that well - on the one hand she was pretty homophobic but that didn't cancel out Kwame's lie-by-omission. Was there a point to be made that she fetishised black guys?

I did not like the bit with the policeman taking Kwame's statement. Too on the nose, as already mentioned. Arabella may well have had a similar experience had she not gone to a specialist unit directly (which is what I understood to have happened). But then maybe the point is that such things don't readily exist for men.

As for the flatmate having done it - I too thought that might be the case and was so glad it wasn't. Him looking at the YouTube video about loneliness was the point of his character, it seems. For me it jumped out as an afterthought. There were several things that seemed to get dropped like the male friend 3some thing that was a set-up for him to have an affair.

Like Thugler said though - I didn't think that there was any whodunnit about the programme and the rapist's face was shown in episode 1 and reinforced several times showing the character in the bar with them. The only thing that I wasn't sure of was if she knew him beforehand.

I was fascinated with how awful the publisher woman was. I got the impression that certain people would know exactly who it was meant to be.


neveragain

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Re: I May Destroy You
« Reply #48 on: July 27, 2020, 06:54:44 PM »
Yeah, what happened with that guy who was having the 'threesome affair'?

Not that everything needs wrapped up but it needs to feel satisfactorily finished, as the episode about Theo did.

Re: I May Destroy You
« Reply #49 on: July 27, 2020, 07:00:01 PM »
Like Thugler said though - I didn't think that there was any whodunnit about the programme and the rapist's face was shown in episode 1 and reinforced several times showing the character in the bar with them. The only thing that I wasn't sure of was if she knew him beforehand.
Oh trust me, I didn't think there should be and I don't think the show ever felt like it was going to lead up to something like that. It was just rampant cynicism that they could absolutely shit the bed with this horrific twist and the flatmate was sufficiently focused on yet poorly fleshed out to fit it.

Re: I May Destroy You
« Reply #50 on: July 27, 2020, 07:06:38 PM »
Yes - that whole twist thing was my worry too.

I also felt that the trailers made it look like a Death Wish / Dr Foster type affair.

Non Stop Dancer

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Re: I May Destroy You
« Reply #51 on: July 28, 2020, 11:55:39 AM »
She might be a homophobe. If she is (and she is), then despite me thinking that homophobia is a very bad thing, he's denied her right to choose.

I'm not trying to pick a fight here and certainly don't want to upset anyone. Like I mentioned before, in my mind there's no reason to be angry, but that's just me.

Having thought about this further, I have to ask myself if I, as a heterosexual man, would be required to let a gay man I was about to have sex with know that I wasn't gay and that this was just an experiment/bucket list thing/whatever. For parity, I think we have to assume that up until that point, I had led the man to believe that I too was gay.

And I still don't know the answer, but given that I'm not gay, is it even legitimate for me to try and work out how a gay person would feel in that situation?

Conclusion: It's a tricky one. Or is it? Puce Moment, I know that you think he had no obligation to tell her, and I'm happy to have it explained to me why, as I'd like to be correct on this rather than just have an instinctual reaction to it.

Re: I May Destroy You
« Reply #52 on: July 28, 2020, 12:23:05 PM »
Why would it be any of her business? Genuinely confused.

I guess I just think that "I don't have sex with women, I'm just trying this out as an experiment" is something  worth mentioning, and that she deserves to have that information.

That's my gut reaction anyway.

Re: I May Destroy You
« Reply #53 on: July 28, 2020, 12:48:01 PM »
I though he was the rapist too, based purely on the fact that the character was utterly pointless otherwise.

Isn't he meant to be, in a way? He seems to be a (presumably) straight white guy who is nice but ineffectual and just getting on with things (and calls everyone mate). The sort of person who isn't necessarily part of the problems but is also definitely not doing anything to fix them. I noticed he's either not invited to or didn't choose to attend the party where people were saying they were sick of white people and so on (he's shown in his room watching TV with headphones on).

I do like this programme but it seems a bit like absolutely everyone in it is portrayed to be a bit of a dick in it in one way or another...I guess that's realism?

Re: I May Destroy You
« Reply #54 on: July 28, 2020, 02:46:39 PM »
Yeah, what happened with that guy who was having the 'threesome affair'?
That whole set up in the first episode was completely divorced from the main plot. I guess it established the bloke as a bit of a cheat to his girlfriend (who totally vanished after episode 1) and a shit friend to Arabella, but apart from him abandoning her to her rapist what was the point of him?

Re: I May Destroy You
« Reply #55 on: July 28, 2020, 05:34:25 PM »
That whole set up in the first episode was completely divorced from the main plot. I guess it established the bloke as a bit of a cheat to his girlfriend (who totally vanished after episode 1) and a shit friend to Arabella, but apart from him abandoning her to her rapist what was the point of him?

But then it transpired that Terry told him to leave her - which was possibly revenge for the Italy abandonment. Still not right for him to leave her but not totally his own failing. Or not solely his failng, perhaps. Have to be honest - I didn't quite understand that plot point. It seemed either inconsequential or just lost.

Re: I May Destroy You
« Reply #56 on: July 28, 2020, 05:35:58 PM »
I guess I just think that "I don't have sex with women, I'm just trying this out as an experiment" is something  worth mentioning, and that she deserves to have that information.

That's my gut reaction anyway.

I suppose in an ideal world everyone should have all the information but that's just idealistic isn't it? Not that I'm disagreeing with you. Also, had she not been a homophobe - which she was - would it have been such a big deal?

Puce Moment

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Re: I May Destroy You
« Reply #57 on: July 28, 2020, 05:38:08 PM »
I guess I just think that "I don't have sex with women, I'm just trying this out as an experiment" is something  worth mentioning, and that she deserves to have that information.

That's my gut reaction anyway.

I don't see how anyone should have to say anything about their sexual experiences prior to starting a new one. It's an interesting take on her character though.

Re: I May Destroy You
« Reply #58 on: July 28, 2020, 05:52:45 PM »
Having thought about this further, I have to ask myself if I, as a heterosexual man, would be required to let a gay man I was about to have sex with know that I wasn't gay and that this was just an experiment/bucket list thing/whatever. For parity, I think we have to assume that up until that point, I had led the man to believe that I too was gay.

And I still don't know the answer, but given that I'm not gay, is it even legitimate for me to try and work out how a gay person would feel in that situation?

Conclusion: It's a tricky one. Or is it? Puce Moment, I know that you think he had no obligation to tell her, and I'm happy to have it explained to me why, as I'd like to be correct on this rather than just have an instinctual reaction to it.

How about if you had sex with an actual woman who then revealed that she was a lesbian. That's something I am entitled to rule on as a straight man with no homophobic tendencies. I don't think that would bother me if it was a relatively random hookup as this seemed to be (although there was some suggestion that there had been a rapport established prior to this unlike Kwame's dial-a-fuck encounters that we see).

ETA - I am siding with Puce Moment on this in terms of disclosure for random hookups.

Re: I May Destroy You
« Reply #59 on: July 28, 2020, 06:08:11 PM »
Gather round everyone - I've thought of another one: what if I am a massive racist and the girl hooked up with me then when I dropped a post-coital n-word into the conversation she revealed that until I had caught her eye in Pret (there's a lot of back story to this) she slept exclusively with black guys.

Obvs as a massive racist I would be appalled that she hadn't told me and call her all sort of names. I tell her to leave (we are at my place). Subsequently when she tries to mend fences in Zizzi one lunchtime I lose it again and storm off.

Should she have told me beforehand knowing I had no chance and was just a whim or an experiment? Am I the unreasonable one for reacting so to her past?



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