The Modern Ocean script (and other Shane Carruth stuff)

[Phil_A]

Shane Carruth has shared the script for his unmade 2015 movie along with designs related to his other unmade project A Topiary.

https://twitter.com/UpstreamColor/status/1273102851938627599

Slightly worried for him though as he seems to be in a not good place and this sudden flurry of activity has a feeling of wrapping up loose ends. At the very least it seems he's given up hope of his visions ever being realised, which is incredibly sad.

[peanutbutter]

Slightly worried for him though as he seems to be in a not good place

What's the context for this?

If I were a filmmaker or something like that I'd imagine I'd frequently put unfinished things out there just to get them off my mind. It's gotta be a big mental nuisance carry loads of unfulfilled ideas around that you're aware you'll never go back to.
Considering how much he was able to get outta the budgets for Primer and Upstream Color, it is kinda weird he hasn't done more. Given his background and how he does everything, I assume he just repeatedly gets bogged down in details and once he got to the point where he was doing almost everything in a very professional looking film like Upsteam Color he was really too far gone. He was probably about 5 years too early to have access to the kind of funding channels that could've really benefitted him and by the time they were there he just wasn't in the same headspace.

[Phil_A]

What's the context for this?

Don't know, just the replies to people who've asked how he's doing have been a bit concerning.

"No I am not alright. Normal people keep these things hidden and I honestly think everyone has their thing they haven't shown. We're in a different space now I guess and I don't want to leave anything on the floor. It's not a gambit or a play. I just have it."

If I were a filmmaker or something like that I'd imagine I'd frequently put unfinished things out there just to get them off my mind. It's gotta be a big mental nuisance carry loads of unfulfilled ideas around that you're aware you'll never go back to.
Considering how much he was able to get outta the budgets for Primer and Upstream Color, it is kinda weird he hasn't done more. Given his background and how he does everything, I assume he just repeatedly gets bogged down in details and once he got to the point where he was doing almost everything in a very professional looking film like Upsteam Color he was really too far gone. He was probably about 5 years too early to have access to the kind of funding channels that could've really benefitted him and by the time they were there he just wasn't in the same headspace.

He seems to spend a lot of time doing small acting roles in other people's films, the odd bit of music. I get the impression he's quite disillusioned by the whole business of film production, and in fact I was just reading on wikipedia that he's said he has one more big project he wants to complete and then he'll probably leave the industry altogether.

My feeling regarding A Topiary is that the concept was so bizarre and ambitious it might've scared off potential backers. And bear in mind this was the film he intended as his follow-up to Primer, when he hadn't yet released a "real" film in the eyes of the industry, you can see how it would've felt like a huge risk.

The fate of The Modern Ocean is a bit more mysterious, as it seemed to have a lot of momentum behind it and big names attached but then it all just sort of fizzled to nothing. I haven't read the script yet so I'm curious to see what exactly it was all about.

It's incredibly frustrating as I feel like he has the potential to be one of the all-time great filmmakers, but the stars just don't seem to have aligned for him somehow.

[Enzo]

It really is a shame that he can't seem to get his scripts supported in any meaningful way by the industry. Upstream Color was one of the most immersive cinema experiences I've ever experienced and the script for A Topiary was excellent.

I wonder if his desire to control every aspect of the production of the scripts has put producers off investing in him.

[phantom_power]

His films are in no way mainstream and usually a pretty hard sell in terms of a tag line or even a couple of sentences so I can sort of see why investors are wary. That said though he is a truly unique voice and there should be someone willing to lose money just to see what he comes up with.

He recently produced The Wanting Mare that got good reviews at film festivals as far as I can remember

[peanutbutter]

He got snookered by Primer, I imagine. Not at all mainstream but the kind of hype it got for its budget from someone who'd done fuck all before... Can easily imagine years and years of interest for $$$ into his next film only for them to back out when it becomes obvious there's unlikely to be anything like the kind of return they entered discussions with as a baseline or the kind of awards and prestige bullshit either. Meanwhile he's adjusted his ambitions to this level that just isn't viable.



Must say though RE: Upstream Color, I remember checking out Soderbergh's Solaris a few months later and feeling like UC was a hell of a lot less intriguing afterwards. Went googling straight after to find several places where he cited that Solaris as an influence on his style too so it wasn't just me imagining shit.

[greenman]

Honestly I loathed Upstream Colour, just felt like it was reviling in being obtuse for its own sake to me.

[notjosh]

Thanks for sharing this. I have the A Topiary script too, but still haven't got round to reading it.

I hope the guy's alright. It's a shame there aren't more studios willing to take a punt on crazy projects. Do studios even still make 'prestige pictures' like they used to, or is everything expected to turn a profit nowadays? Or am I being naive in thinking that 'studios' still exist?

Honestly I loathed Upstream Colour, just felt like it was reviling in being obtuse for its own sake to me.

I loved it. I thought the obtuseness reflected the experience of the characters in that they never really understand where they fit into the big picture.

[dissolute ocelot]

I loved Upstream Color, it's authentically weird and evokes something much bigger than itself. In contrast Primer just seemed a bunch of guys dressed in business casual running through doors. Puzzles you can solve vs puzzles you don't need to.

There are still a fair number of weird films being made in the US, albeit not from the big studios. Everything from Us to Under the Silver Lake. And many go straight to streaming. But if you look at weird directors who prospered, like Darren Aronofsky, you probably need to be dangling the prospect of Oscars in front of actors and movie execs, which requires a certain kind of weird film. Or have some other hook or marketability or Pete Davidson. Who knows. I've no idea how James Gray keeps making increasingly large films that just kinda stop.

[Noodle Lizard]

I hope the guy's alright. It's a shame there aren't more studios willing to take a punt on crazy projects. Do studios even still make 'prestige pictures' like they used to, or is everything expected to turn a profit nowadays? Or am I being naive in thinking that 'studios' still exist?

People, by and large, don't go to see these kinds of films in the cinema (always worth remembering that China is Hollywood's biggest market now). Big studios, or production companies tied to big studios anyway, make a few "prestige" films for awards season which usually don't make much money comparatively but help boost their profile.

As much as it'd be nice to think a studio could throw a few million here and there to genuinely artistic creators, it just doesn't work that way given how they're structured. Netflix and Amazon have been picking up the slack there, but even their focus doesn't tend to be especially arty fare. I'm sure companies like A24 or Steven Soderbergh would be happy to have someone like Carruth on board, but it wouldn't surprise me if he's had dealings with them and decided against it. Sean Baker apparently had to move back in with his mum after Tangerine was released, and Joel Potrykus never gave up the day job. It's a shite time to be an independent filmmaker.

[peanutbutter]

As much as it'd be nice to think a studio could throw a few million here and there to genuinely artistic creators, it just doesn't work that way given how they're structured. Netflix and Amazon have been picking up the slack there, but even their focus doesn't tend to be especially arty fare. I'm sure companies like A24 or Steven Soderbergh would be happy to have someone like Carruth on board, but it wouldn't surprise me if he's had dealings with them and decided against it. Sean Baker apparently had to move back in with his mum after Tangerine was released, and Joel Potrykus never gave up the day job. It's a shite time to be an independent filmmaker.

He done the music for the TV series the Girlfriend Experience, which in itself seemed like Soderbergh finding an excuse to get some of talented people some work.


I assume Joel Potrykus funds his own films without even trying to find backers? Always struck me as someone who is deliberately not even trying to play the game.

[Bence Fekete]

I've always wanted to like the Shane Carruth films more than I actually do.

As stated, I find him amazing at abstraction and high concept but also, crucially, somewhat trapped in his own creative ego. Characters drift in and out of focus so often you start to wonder if it's a smokescreen. And to an extent I would say it proactively makes his audience feel bad for not keeping up - so not really a good way to go about film-making (or any artform) for me.

Reminds me of this:

Learn the rules like a pro, so you can break them like an artist.

[Noodle Lizard]

I assume Joel Potrykus funds his own films without even trying to find backers? Always struck me as someone who is deliberately not even trying to play the game.

Yes, and he's quite wise to (not) do so. Carruth had the perhaps unfortunate experience of having created a successful indie film with Primer, right on the tail-end of the era where that was a viable way of getting into the industry proper. It must have been incredibly disheartening to learn in real time that it's just not how things work anymore. I don't necessarily believe that he of all people couldn't find some backers for the projects he wants to do, but I suppose it might seem a bit pointless once you realize that going that direction isn't really gong to pay off for you. Potrykus, on the other hand, started out making films within and for his own community with comparatively little ambition, and you get the distinct impression that he'd be doing that anyway even if Buzzard hadn't made a minor splash.

For what it's worth, they're two of the few filmmakers currently working in the US that I'm excited by, even if I haven't actually loved any of Carruth's work myself. I think Primer is an exceptional first film, willfully impenetrable as it may be.