Author Topic: Acts Who Could Be Cancelled for Racially Dodgy Lyrics or Videos  (Read 6131 times)

king_tubby

  • You have to be realistic about these things.
Re: Acts Who Could Be Cancelled for Racially Dodgy Lyrics or Videos
« Reply #120 on: June 24, 2020, 02:06:20 PM »
I don't think The Frogs would get very far nowadays.

Re: Acts Who Could Be Cancelled for Racially Dodgy Lyrics or Videos
« Reply #121 on: June 26, 2020, 05:43:18 PM »
Yeah, I suppose the thing with him is that there so much open to interpretation that people can project or detract as much as they want. I think it's the live version of Honey, Don't You Want a Man Like Me (which is a pretty grim Ha! Ha! Rape! song, even if the male protagonist is main focus of the ire[1]) on You Can't Do That On Stage Anymore that did it for me, though. Loved it when I was 16. Went back a couple of years later, and felt a bit 'Eh, this is not remotely cool at all.'

And you could extrapolate that to my feelings on Zappa in general. I can't help but feel that, when you strip away the ironic distance and superciliousness, there is a streak of cruelty that makes it all considerably less enjoyable, especially when he's punching down.
 1. Yet they take time out to update the lyrics so that her favourite music is Twisted Sister not Helen Reddy because: Haha! What a dumb bitch!

And the priggishness.

One thing that always comes to mind is when there's a live video, I think it's Does Humor belong in Music, where there's 8 men on stage shouting 'Don't fool yourself girl, it's going up your poop, poop chute'.

Classy.

kalowski

  • the Zone of Zero Funkativity
Re: Acts Who Could Be Cancelled for Racially Dodgy Lyrics or Videos
« Reply #122 on: June 26, 2020, 06:20:33 PM »
Quote
Take a pinch of white man
Wrap him up in black skin
Add a touch of blue blood
And a little bitty bit of red Indian boy
Oh like a Curly Latin kinkies
Oh Lordy, Lordy, mixed with yellow Chinkees, yeah
You know you lump it all together
And you got a recipe for a get along scene
Oh what a beautiful dream
If it could only come true, you know, you know
What we need is a great big melting pot
Big enough enough enough to take
The world and all its got And keep it stirring for a hundred years or more
And turn out coffee coloured people by the score
Rabbis and the friars
Vishnus and the gurus
We got the Beatles or the Sun God
Well it really doesn't matter what religion you choose
And be thankful little Mrs. Graceful
You know that livin' could be tasteful
We should all get together in a lovin machine
I think I'll call up the queen
It' s only fair that she knows, you know, you know
What we need is a great big melting pot
Big enough enough enough to take
The world and all its got And keep it stirring for a hundred years or more
And turn out coffee coloured people by the score

Head Gardener

  • weed specialist
    • Gardening mixes
Re: Acts Who Could Be Cancelled for Racially Dodgy Lyrics or Videos
« Reply #123 on: June 26, 2020, 07:42:25 PM »
I don't think The Frogs would get very far nowadays.

I only know the their song Adam & Steve and never thought it odd, what have I missed?

Adam and Eve, Adam and Steve
Which is wrong and which is right?

Look at the sperm on my lips
Look at the sperm on my hips
Look at the sperm
Look at the sperm, Steve

Re: Acts Who Could Be Cancelled for Racially Dodgy Lyrics or Videos
« Reply #124 on: June 26, 2020, 09:09:37 PM »
Yeah, I suppose the thing with him is that there so much open to interpretation that people can project or detract as much as they want. I think it's the live version of Honey, Don't You Want a Man Like Me (which is a pretty grim Ha! Ha! Rape! song, even if the male protagonist is main focus of the ire[1]) on You Can't Do That On Stage Anymore that did it for me, though. Loved it when I was 16. Went back a couple of years later, and felt a bit 'Eh, this is not remotely cool at all.'

And you could extrapolate that to my feelings on Zappa in general. I can't help but feel that, when you strip away the ironic distance and superciliousness, there is a streak of cruelty that makes it all considerably less enjoyable, especially when he's punching down.
 1. Yet they take time out to update the lyrics so that her favourite music is Twisted Sister not Helen Reddy because: Haha! What a dumb bitch!

Fair enough. I can imagine it being something you grow out of. I'm only just approaching 30 and was basically raised on South Park and death metal, so perhaps I'm not past the stage where I think that kind of stuff can be funny. Perhaps it's desensitisation, I dunno. Musical acts like Zappa and Ween often hit a kind of "mean comedy" streak, which I enjoy because I feel comfortable with the people behind it and their intentions, and it often feels refreshingly opposed to the self-importance behind a lot of music (granted, Zappa was self-important in his own way). That seems to be a trend in the kind of music that leaves an impact on me; Devin Townsend's another example (although I don't think he's ever done anything especially cancellable), and while someone like Phil Ochs or Randy Newman may be looked back on fondly in the current climate, it could've gone either way.

easytarget

  • five gas lighters for a pound
Re: Acts Who Could Be Cancelled for Racially Dodgy Lyrics or Videos
« Reply #125 on: June 27, 2020, 03:18:49 AM »
I love Iron Maiden and don't believe they were being hateful or edgelordy when they wrote Run To The Hills in 1982. I think it's supposed to be a black and white, old west, cowboy and Indians adventure. However:

Quote from: 'Steve Harris'
"White man came across the sea
He brought us pain and misery"

"Chasing the redskins back to their holes
Fighting them at their own game"

"Raping the women and wasting the men
The only good Indians are tame
Selling them whiskey and taking their gold
Enslaving the young and destroying the old"


I mean, you wouldn't write it today.

And they close the show with it every night. Which is all probably fine, but when I saw them in the US last year it felt a bit... uncomfortable (it being y'know the venue being on nicked Indian land and that). Chatting about the set afterwards a fellow obsessive and I discovered that we wouldn't be too upset if it was dropped and replaced with something else from The Most Enviable Back-Catalog In Metal.

Cracking song though.

Re: Acts Who Could Be Cancelled for Racially Dodgy Lyrics or Videos
« Reply #126 on: June 27, 2020, 04:19:16 AM »
I love Iron Maiden and don't believe they were being hateful or edgelordy when they wrote Run To The Hills in 1982. I think it's supposed to be a black and white, old west, cowboy and Indians adventure.

I never really considered that to be cancellable, since it's (I think) clearly anti-colonisation and all that. It opens up a bit of a can of worms if we're considering cancelling songs about horrible things.

Metal's tricky in general since so much of it is fantastical in some way or another, i.e. "not necessarily representing the views of the writers". Bands like Cannibal Corpse attracted the ire of "think of the children" types in the 90s, but it's hard to imagine anyone getting too incensed by them now since it's pretty clear they exist to be as sick and OTT as possible - probably helps that you can't easily make out the lyrics, but then again some of the song titles are somewhat "cancellable" in and of themselves. It gets more complicated with acts like Malevolent Creation throwing out songs like this without being an out-and-out "white power" band (which do exist in a few genres).

Then you get kind of joke bands like Anal Cunt which existed purely to be as (humourously) offensive as possible - probably the definition of a cancellable band, but what would the point be? A proper cancellation seems to require the target to have transgressed almost by mistake, or at least not having the intention to offend.

chveik

  • DON'T GET THAT COVID, YEAH!?
Re: Acts Who Could Be Cancelled for Racially Dodgy Lyrics or Videos
« Reply #127 on: June 27, 2020, 09:39:52 AM »
aye saying "Pig Destroyer is cancelled" and whatnot won't get much traction, or only for christian fundamentalists I suppose

Re: Acts Who Could Be Cancelled for Racially Dodgy Lyrics or Videos
« Reply #128 on: June 27, 2020, 06:13:47 PM »
If This Is Spinal Tap hadn't been so judiciously edited it might be getting cancelled right now, as the full version of Nigel's backstage rant had some classic 70s style racism.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypcSHTLlK8E

kngen

  • Member
  • **
  • Fighting sleep's deathlike grip
Re: Acts Who Could Be Cancelled for Racially Dodgy Lyrics or Videos
« Reply #129 on: June 27, 2020, 10:06:39 PM »
Then you get kind of joke bands like Anal Cunt which existed purely to be as (humourously) offensive as possible - probably the definition of a cancellable band, but what would the point be? A proper cancellation seems to require the target to have transgressed almost by mistake, or at least not having the intention to offend.

The weird thing about Anal Cunt is that, because they were so obviously deliberately offensive to the point of being comedic, people were a bit surprised when details began to emerge about what a genuinely horrible bastard Seth Putnam was in real life. But it did start to catch up with him before he died, as they were finding it harder and harder to book shows (and maintain a steady lineup, too). Ditto Meat Shits and Cripple Bastards. Kind of ironic how being off-the-scale offensive allows you to hide in plain sight in a way.

Re: Acts Who Could Be Cancelled for Racially Dodgy Lyrics or Videos
« Reply #130 on: June 27, 2020, 10:08:35 PM »
Nah. It's a desire to be simple and primitive, a harkening back to a supposedly better time, like many Kinks songs. And I don't think there are any steel drums on it.

Or I'm wrong and you can also put the The Stones 'Monkey Man' and The Beatles 'Everybody's Got Something To Hide )'Cept For Me And My Monkey.' in the dumper. And also 'Hey Hey We're The Monkees' by The Monkees.

That’s absolute bollocks (except for the steel drums comment). If it wasn’t for the stupid accent he puts on I could just about see your point. But definitely racist with it there.


Brundle-Fly

  • *Jooolie Andreeeews!! Thhhrrrrp!!!!*
Re: Acts Who Could Be Cancelled for Racially Dodgy Lyrics or Videos
« Reply #131 on: June 28, 2020, 12:12:38 AM »
Unbelievably, this year is the silver anniversary of this muthafucka. Oucheroony!

https://www.dailymotion.com/video/xyj1po



Re: Acts Who Could Be Cancelled for Racially Dodgy Lyrics or Videos
« Reply #132 on: June 28, 2020, 12:49:31 AM »
The weird thing about Anal Cunt is that, because they were so obviously deliberately offensive to the point of being comedic, people were a bit surprised when details began to emerge about what a genuinely horrible bastard Seth Putnam was in real life. But it did start to catch up with him before he died, as they were finding it harder and harder to book shows (and maintain a steady lineup, too). Ditto Meat Shits and Cripple Bastards. Kind of ironic how being off-the-scale offensive allows you to hide in plain sight in a way.

Yeah, I wrote a paragraph about Vaginal Jesus etc. but felt I was just being long-winded and boring and ultimately who cares about a dead bloke no one really cared about when he was alive anyway. He was ultimately just a fucked-in-the-head drug addict not too dissimilar to GG Allin, and died exactly as you'd expect him to, so it's hard to care that much about whether he was actually properly racist or not. Anal Cunt in and of themselves are fine, I'm not above finding some of their song titles funny.

king_tubby

  • You have to be realistic about these things.
Re: Acts Who Could Be Cancelled for Racially Dodgy Lyrics or Videos
« Reply #133 on: June 28, 2020, 07:28:09 PM »
I only know the their song Adam & Steve and never thought it odd, what have I missed?

Adam and Eve, Adam and Steve
Which is wrong and which is right?

Look at the sperm on my lips
Look at the sperm on my hips
Look at the sperm
Look at the sperm, Steve

Yeah,  don't google 'Baby Greaser George' on a work PC.

purlieu

  • Gertrude Stein said that's enough.
Re: Acts Who Could Be Cancelled for Racially Dodgy Lyrics or Videos
« Reply #134 on: June 28, 2020, 11:47:09 PM »

king_tubby

  • You have to be realistic about these things.
Re: Acts Who Could Be Cancelled for Racially Dodgy Lyrics or Videos
« Reply #135 on: June 28, 2020, 11:51:23 PM »
Well that's well racist, so nuts to them.

daf

  • some weirdo taking the piss
Re: Acts Who Could Be Cancelled for Racially Dodgy Lyrics or Videos
« Reply #136 on: July 02, 2020, 06:56:37 PM »
John Heaton (lovely bloke) has done a vido :

What song lyrics are offensive? I examine some contenders....

Head Gardener

  • weed specialist
    • Gardening mixes
Re: Acts Who Could Be Cancelled for Racially Dodgy Lyrics or Videos
« Reply #137 on: July 02, 2020, 07:54:34 PM »
How do we feel about Look Out There’s a Monster Coming?
. Neil Innes thankfully not joining in the blackface

Sin Agog

  • Dogs fucked the pope; no fault of mine
Re: Acts Who Could Be Cancelled for Racially Dodgy Lyrics or Videos
« Reply #138 on: July 02, 2020, 08:49:28 PM »
I remember when I used to listen to The Heptones as a kid, it took me so many listens to realise how fucking sketchy the lyrics to I've Got the Handle were: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CtzEnun-mP8

Was too deceived by those honeyed harmonies.

(Heavily sexist lyrics, not racist).

Re: Acts Who Could Be Cancelled for Racially Dodgy Lyrics or Videos
« Reply #139 on: July 02, 2020, 09:00:57 PM »
How do we feel about Look Out There’s a Monster Coming?

Can't really defend it but one my favourites of theirs. Funny, when I was a teenager and listened to it a lot it never really occurred to me. Mind you, I'd never seen that performance then.

Comments seem to be split between those saying "delightfully un-PC" while burping into their real ale, and those claiming that they are mocking the B&W Minstrels.

Does the fact it contains the line "I bought a deluxe Merseybeat wig. But it was a size too big" not give it some immunity?

Re: Acts Who Could Be Cancelled for Racially Dodgy Lyrics or Videos
« Reply #140 on: July 02, 2020, 09:06:35 PM »
Witchdoctor, he says:

"oo-ee-oo-aaa-aaa-ting-tang-walla-walla-bing-bang"

clearly a mockery of African languages

here's the album cover from the original release:


Re: Acts Who Could Be Cancelled for Racially Dodgy Lyrics or Videos
« Reply #141 on: July 02, 2020, 09:09:20 PM »
cannibal corpse - nobody's bothered by them nowadays

When I saw Cannibal Corpse at Wacken 07, a mere... 13 years ago, it was the first time they'd been allowed to play songs from their earlier albums in Germany. Afaik the whole albums were verboten for decades.

anal cunt

I had a ticket to see Anal Cunt on their last UK tour. Anti-fascist groups kicked up a fuss and it got cancelled. Then Seth Putnam died and I never got to see them. That kinda think perhaps made me a little bit sympathetic to the 'lefties cancelling things, the bunch of bastards, antifa are the real fascists' viewpoint. I mean, it's not like people would've gone to see Anal Cunt and then felt like they were part of a strong racist movement.

Alas there are bands like Peste Noire out there that I think make some of the best extreme metal about, but I feel it's immoral to even make this post talking about how good they are, because they're unabashed fash. I don't feel the same about Anal Cunt.

Re: Acts Who Could Be Cancelled for Racially Dodgy Lyrics or Videos
« Reply #142 on: July 02, 2020, 09:24:49 PM »
When I saw Cannibal Corpse at Wacken 07, a mere... 13 years ago, it was the first time they'd been allowed to play songs from their earlier albums in Germany. Afaik the whole albums were verboten for decades.

I think I said elsewhere in my post that they were big targets for (generally-speaking) conservative "family values" outrage in the 90s, in the same way that Marilyn Manson and Grand Theft Auto were. I've spoken to Alex Webster in person about the whole Germany issue, and he definitely seems to be of the mind that it was a purely because they were a high-profile example to make, rather than any sincere attempt to ban that kind of stuff from their shores. After all, there are countless death metal bands within Germany with lyrics just as offensive who never saw any restriction.

When I say no one cares about them now, I'm talking about the more recent spates of largely liberal Twitter outrage that results in public figures being "cancelled". Nobody's really bothered going after death metal because there's not much satisfaction to be gained from taking them down. It seems as if it's more satisfying for this particular form of condemnation to kind of "catch people out" rather than highlight anything they openly do, as was the case with the attacks on "extreme" forms of entertainment in the 80s and 90s.

I had a ticket to see Anal Cunt on their last UK tour. Anti-fascist groups kicked up a fuss and it got cancelled. Then Seth Putnam died and I never got to see them.

I didn't know they were even on the radar for that sort of thing. When did Seth die, 2011? A little while before the "cancel culture" thing really kicked off.

I still don't know quite what to make of him, honestly. I think Anal Cunt in and of themselves were quite funny, but it's hard to follow it too far down the rabbit hole of his association with bands like Vaginal Jesus etc.

Re: Acts Who Could Be Cancelled for Racially Dodgy Lyrics or Videos
« Reply #143 on: July 02, 2020, 09:40:09 PM »
catch them out
I think there's an element of 'death metal has been trundling along for decades, singing about obscene things, and it doesn't seem to make any difference to the mental health or behaviour of the listeners, so let's just pretend it doesn't exist' to it, as well.

As well as racism, and classism.

For instance, if someone is concerned that the lyrics of Tyler, the Creator might encourage his fans to behave in an inappropriate or dangerous manner, then "why don't ya care about Cannibal Corpse" is a good counter-example. And some CC songs - Stripped Raped and Strangled - you can hear every word of the lyrics. Others - too numerous to mention - even the song title is misogynistic and violent. I think there might be an implicit assumption that Cannibal Corpse fans are white, middle class nerds whereas Tyler the Creator fans are less-so.

Maybe when you're listening to Necrophagist and shouting out 'Mutilate the Stillborn' during the chorus, the idea of doing so is ludicrous. But Stripped Raped and Strangled - they end on it every time I've seen 'em, and you might think that it's easy for someone to miss the irony.

Personally I think art is art and it doesn't matter. Except for NSBM. I might've thought it was all fun and games until Trump got elected.

The whole issue is a puzzler. That scene in Irreversible (no spoilers) - I watch it and I think it's terrible. You show it to a million people - one of them might have a sexual awakening, in fact it might be likely.  But I'd always defend the right to film and broadcast it. Ted Bundy was found with a load of detective magazines showing women in peril (and he had the gall to blame porn).

Re: Acts Who Could Be Cancelled for Racially Dodgy Lyrics or Videos
« Reply #144 on: July 02, 2020, 09:58:56 PM »
Personally I think art is art and it doesn't matter. Except for NSBM. I might've thought it was all fun and games until Trump got elected.

Fortunately, I'm still to hear a proper NSBM band that I thought was any good anyway (I also never cared for Burzum at all, regardless of Varg and his antics). Of course a lot of the early Norwegian black metal acts used imagery that's probably cancellable now, or had members who outright committed bigoted crimes, but you didn't really hear it in the music.

Re: Acts Who Could Be Cancelled for Racially Dodgy Lyrics or Videos
« Reply #145 on: July 02, 2020, 10:05:37 PM »
Fortunately, I'm still to hear a proper NSBM band that I thought was any good anyway (I also never cared for Burzum at all, regardless of Varg and his antics). Of course a lot of the early Norwegian black metal acts used imagery that's probably cancellable now, or had members who outright committed bigoted crimes, but you didn't really hear it in the music.

I don't like to publicly talk about the good ones but Drudkh have been associated with the scene and, like I said earlier, Peste Noire, also Walknut. Alas Peste Noire really hit the spot for me. :'(


fuck them all though, fuckin nazis, pirate their music and then punch a UKIP voter to make up for it

I can get karmic realignment for promoting fash music by linking to this petition to get them banned off Facebook: https://www.change.org/p/facebook-should-remove-neo-nazi-band-pages?utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=custom_url&recruited_by_id=581f3720-ae32-11ea-ae4b-afd8a84defd5

Re: Acts Who Could Be Cancelled for Racially Dodgy Lyrics or Videos
« Reply #146 on: July 03, 2020, 11:32:19 AM »
It's still dodgy as fuck, though. He literally and figuratively groomed her.

Makes me think of Celine Dion's manager. Brrrr ... what a fucking creep.

Honestly can't tell if that's a subtle Celine Dion/horse joke or not.

Head Gardener

  • weed specialist
    • Gardening mixes
Re: Acts Who Could Be Cancelled for Racially Dodgy Lyrics or Videos
« Reply #147 on: July 03, 2020, 02:29:22 PM »
I have a very dodgy 7" EP by Susan Hampshire which came out in the 60's

daf

  • some weirdo taking the piss
Re: Acts Who Could Be Cancelled for Racially Dodgy Lyrics or Videos
« Reply #148 on: July 03, 2020, 02:52:39 PM »
This the one?

Re: Acts Who Could Be Cancelled for Racially Dodgy Lyrics or Videos
« Reply #149 on: July 03, 2020, 03:51:45 PM »
would also add MGLA to my list of NSBM-adjacent good BM bands, and the bands that MGLA members have been involved in such as Odraza. I saw MGLA just after it emerged that they were fash, you're making a little bit of a statement if you wear a MGLA t-shirt these days. But these are two bands I supported with cold hard cash before it emerged they were racists.

I've also seen two bands associated with convicted homophobic murderer Faust - Emperor and Zyklon. I don't know if he was performing at any of the times I saw Emperor, but I've recollections that he was a guest drummer when I saw Zyklon. I guess I didn't think too much about it when I bought the tickets.

Tags: