Author Topic: Aliens and Predator  (Read 4234 times)

Kelvin

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Re: Aliens and Predator
« Reply #30 on: June 20, 2020, 02:03:54 PM »
Alien is brilliant, but Aliens is nothing special, imo. Two dimensional characters. The aliens are stupid and boring. It doesn't feel claustrophobic enough a lot of the time. It's obviously okay as brainless fun, but it doesn't really excel at anything, and the aliens simply aren't scary - their only advantage is numbers. Alien 3 is a better, certainly more interesting, film. There I said it.   

NoSleep

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Re: Aliens and Predator
« Reply #31 on: June 20, 2020, 02:07:48 PM »
Cameron was practising at blockbuster sequels before he attempted one for his own franchise.

Kelvin

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Re: Aliens and Predator
« Reply #32 on: June 20, 2020, 02:08:58 PM »
Yes, then he made his own masterpiece. A film so good he made it twice.

NoSleep

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Re: Aliens and Predator
« Reply #33 on: June 20, 2020, 02:11:57 PM »
The first Terminator is still the better film, though. It is a great piece of storytelling in itself and doesn't require all the sequels to be appreciated.

Kelvin

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Re: Aliens and Predator
« Reply #34 on: June 20, 2020, 02:25:51 PM »
The first Terminator is still the better film, though. It is a great piece of storytelling in itself and doesn't require all the sequels to be appreciated.

That's actually what I meant. I don't like T2 very much. It's just a remake of the first film, with all the quotes and highlights tediously repeated, a huge dose of cheese, and a completely miscast John Connor. It obviously has great scenes of its own, but it's a much inferior film overall.

Re: Aliens and Predator
« Reply #35 on: June 20, 2020, 02:28:30 PM »
Alien 3 is a better, certainly more interesting, film. There I said it.   

Of course you said it. That is exactly the sort of contrarian, hipster opinion you would have. And you're entitled to that opinion, if you insist on it. Even though David Fincher pretty much disowns the film.

Kelvin

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Re: Aliens and Predator
« Reply #36 on: June 20, 2020, 02:31:30 PM »
Of course you said it. That is exactly the sort of contrarian, hipster opinion you would have. And you're entitled to that opinion, if you insist on it. Even though David Fincher pretty much disowns the film.

Is that my thing? Contrarian hipster? I never knew I had a "thing" on here. It's quite exciting.

Re: Aliens and Predator
« Reply #37 on: June 20, 2020, 02:32:11 PM »
It's fine. It's a decent film.

Re: Aliens and Predator
« Reply #38 on: June 20, 2020, 02:44:05 PM »
Is that my thing? Contrarian hipster? I never knew I had a "thing" on here. It's quite exciting.

It has always been your thing. Mr. Alternative, putting his hand up in class and saying, 'Oh but I have a different opinion.' I have a sideways glance, an olbique perspective on the Alien franchise.

Kelvin

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Re: Aliens and Predator
« Reply #39 on: June 20, 2020, 03:17:16 PM »
It has always been your thing. Mr. Alternative, putting his hand up in class and saying, 'Oh but I have a different opinion.' I have a sideways glance, an olbique perspective on the Alien franchise.

At least I have a good backup username in Mr Alternative.

Personally, I think it's more that I generally don't bother to post my opinion unless I disagree with an existing consensus. Not out of contrariness, but purely because I've never been interested in repeating the same opinions that have already been posted, and would rather discuss the areas where I disagree. Maybe that gives the impression of contrariness, but really it's that I just can't be arsed expanding on "Yes, I agree Alien 1 and Predator 1 are the best films" when there's more room for discussion around the argument that Alien 3 is a more interesting film than Aliens.

Shit Good Nose

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Re: Aliens and Predator
« Reply #40 on: June 20, 2020, 03:20:19 PM »
I agree with NoSleep about The Terminator - first one is fucking brilliant.  Second one comes along with its tone all over the place and ruins the first's legacy.  One of my earliest film disappointments that.

And, whilst I don't agree with NoSleep that Predator 2 is better than 1, I do agree that it's a great fun film in its own right.

And, no news to absolutely anyone this, Aliens sucks balls (although not as much as Resurrection) and Alien 3 is much better.

Kryton

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Re: Aliens and Predator
« Reply #41 on: June 20, 2020, 03:23:16 PM »
The first Terminator is still the better film, though. It is a great piece of storytelling in itself and doesn't require all the sequels to be appreciated.

Yep and when the T-800 is mimicking Sarah's mother on the phone(?) - proper horror that is.

Kryton

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Re: Aliens and Predator
« Reply #42 on: June 20, 2020, 03:26:00 PM »
I agree with NoSleep about The Terminator - first one is fucking brilliant.  Second one comes along with its tone all over the place and ruins the first's legacy.  One of my earliest film disappointments that.

And, whilst I don't agree with NoSleep that Predator 2 is better than 1, I do agree that it's a great fun film in its own right.

And, no news to absolutely anyone this, Aliens sucks balls (although not as much as Resurrection) and Alien 3 is much better.

Alien is a fantastic horror film.

Aliens has an amazing set and the xenos (aliens) looked cooler. But it lost the tension and obviously went full on gung-ho for most of it. Some stand out scenes - like the facehuggers being released.

Alien 3 is great - Weird and wonderful.

Predator 1 is probably the most dated out of the bunch.

Predator 2 is fun. In the same way Alien 3 is fun.

Re: Aliens and Predator
« Reply #43 on: June 20, 2020, 03:26:13 PM »
I think we need a name for the truism that on here, that pretty much every thread on here that has the slightest potential to turn into a discussion about Alien 3 being underrated, better than Aliens etc inevitably does. St Eddie's Law?[1]

Instead it will be I who is the true warrior of free thinking in declaring that IT SUCKS!!!!



OK, the warrior will let his shield down, it's OK.

Resurrection is far more enjoyable and at least completed. There, that's my daring act of bravery.

 1.  I say this with affection rather than malice if he's watching

Re: Aliens and Predator
« Reply #44 on: June 20, 2020, 04:02:07 PM »
Alien 3 is to its series as This is Hardcore was to Pulp. They're better than the initial backlash said, but not nearly as good as the backlash to the backlash would have it. Both of them make a conscious effort to distinguish themselves from their immediate predecessors, but don't replace the crowd pleasing elements with anything of comparable quality.

Alien 3's one interesting idea is the deleted subplot, with Paul McGann viewing the alien as some divine judgement. Even that is basically just a retread of Ash's admiration of the creature in the first film, though. Don't even get me started on all the big bloviating speeches that pepper the film.

And I won a quiz about the Alien films once, so my opinion is best.

Shit Good Nose

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Re: Aliens and Predator
« Reply #45 on: June 20, 2020, 05:09:44 PM »
We ALL know what your opinion is.

(wrong)

NoSleep

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Re: Aliens and Predator
« Reply #46 on: June 20, 2020, 05:26:48 PM »
I think I saw it one afternoon in an almost empty cinema but I'm assured that Aliens is a hoot in a packed cinema, with lots of audience participation assured. A thing of the past, granted.

Re: Aliens and Predator
« Reply #47 on: June 20, 2020, 05:36:31 PM »
You're all gonna put yourselves in a bind. Eventually there will be so many of you saying, 'Ooh actually Alien 3 is my favourite,' that you'll no longer be the contrarian in the group and you'll have to resort to arguing that Aliens vs. Predator 2 is really the best one.

Shit Good Nose

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Re: Aliens and Predator
« Reply #48 on: June 20, 2020, 05:40:45 PM »
I WILL concede - as I generally eventually do - Aliens is a perfectly fine action film with some interesting character development (in the xenos as well as the humans) and excellent effects.  It also deserves a cap doff for not doing what Cameron did with Terminator 2, i.e. injecting a load of misplaced humour in what is a horrible and thoroughly depressing situation.  BUT it's aged VERY VERY badly - shonky dialogue, character archetypes/stereotypes that were already cliched at the time it was made, and the Vietnam war allegory only gets ropier as time goes on.

3, on the other hand, only improves with age and stands up to a lot more philosophical debate, even in its Weaver/studio interfered final version.


You're all gonna put yourselves in a bind. Eventually there will be so many of you saying, 'Ooh actually Alien 3 is my favourite,' that you'll no longer be the contrarian in the group and you'll have to resort to arguing that Aliens vs. Predator 2 is really the best one.

I've always said that AVP has got one of the best taglines of all time.  Right up there with Jaws 2.

Re: Aliens and Predator
« Reply #49 on: June 20, 2020, 05:47:24 PM »
I've always said that AVP has got one of the best taglines of all time.

I see you came prepared.

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Re: Aliens and Predator
« Reply #50 on: June 20, 2020, 05:49:01 PM »
I see you came prepared.

Yeah that was it.


Alien vs Predator Requiem or whatever it’s called had “On Earth, Everyone Can Hear You Prepare”.



They were going to do further sequels specifically to highlight the remaining senses (eg “I Am Prepared To Touch You” and “Tastes Like Preparation”) but they couldn’t be arsed in the end.

Kryton

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Re: Aliens and Predator
« Reply #51 on: June 20, 2020, 05:51:27 PM »
You're all gonna put yourselves in a bind. Eventually there will be so many of you saying, 'Ooh actually Alien 3 is my favourite,' that you'll no longer be the contrarian in the group and you'll have to resort to arguing that Aliens vs. Predator 2 is really the best one.

Aliens vs Predator 2 is better than Aliens vs Predator 1, so you're on the right track.

But you're missing the Alien Resurrection crowd who'll just muscle their way in during the skirmish and pretend that it was a good film.

Shit Good Nose

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Re: Aliens and Predator
« Reply #52 on: June 20, 2020, 05:51:43 PM »
Yeah that was it.


Alien vs Predator Requiem or whatever it’s called had “On Earth, Everyone Can Hear You Prepare”.

Actually it was "Make Sure You're Quiet When You Prepare, Otherwise They'll Hear You.  The Predators AND Aliens.  Especially The Predators Cos They've Got That Helmet Thing That Amplifies Sounds"

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Re: Aliens and Predator
« Reply #53 on: June 20, 2020, 05:53:34 PM »
oh yeah sorry I forgot

Kryton

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Re: Aliens and Predator
« Reply #54 on: June 20, 2020, 05:54:16 PM »
I WILL concede - as I generally eventually do - Aliens is a perfectly fine action film with some interesting character development (in the xenos as well as the humans) and excellent effects.  It also deserves a cap doff for not doing what Cameron did with Terminator 2, i.e. injecting a load of misplaced humour in what is a horrible and thoroughly depressing situation.  BUT it's aged VERY VERY badly - shonky dialogue, character archetypes/stereotypes that were already cliched at the time it was made, and the Vietnam war allegory only gets ropier as time goes on.

It's the FUTURE pal. Maybe those 'aged' archetypes get re-uploaded or something and everyone just thinks it's cool to fly ships using typewriters and making ill-judged observations about Vasquez.

Re: Aliens and Predator
« Reply #55 on: June 20, 2020, 05:55:08 PM »
Aliens vs Predator 2 is better than Aliens vs Predator 1

Is it fuck. At least you can see the first one.

Re: Aliens and Predator
« Reply #56 on: June 20, 2020, 05:56:54 PM »
Well at least none of you are saying Alien: Covenant is your favourite. Even the most tryhard among you cannot get that lie past your teeth.

Shit Good Nose

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Re: Aliens and Predator
« Reply #57 on: June 20, 2020, 05:57:20 PM »
Is it fuck. At least you can see the first one.

I LOLd.


Well at least none of you are saying Alien: Covenant is your favourite. Even the most tryhard among you cannot get that lie past your teeth.

I think the more interesting argument these days (and it's one I've raised before in Aliens/Alien 3 discussions on CaB) is - which is better out of Prometheus and Covenant?  Damning with faint praise, but I think Covenant is the stronger film in general, but Prometheus has more interesting ideas and imagery.  And I'd take both over Resurrection.  Which doesn't exist, of course.

Re: Aliens and Predator
« Reply #58 on: June 20, 2020, 06:17:11 PM »
Oh, I'm sorry. Did you win a quiz?

Shit Good Nose

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Re: Aliens and Predator
« Reply #59 on: June 20, 2020, 06:20:32 PM »
Yes.

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