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This has been discussed on here before. But wow, The room with Tommy Wiseau

Started by Kryton, June 20, 2020, 03:40:07 PM

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Kryton

I've skipped this as I thought it was a different film, but stumbled on the trailer last night which sent me down a deep rabbit hole of reading all about Tommy, the film, the critics, the production.

It's amazingly shit. Some of THE worst dialogue I've ever heard. It's almost Lynchian in how uncomfortable it is, but produced with earnest and good intent.

'Did you get your promotion?'
'no'
'You didn't get it did you?'

---

The rooftop green screen. The flower shop scene. The fight scene. Everything... The weird sex scenes. Bad camera angles, weird outdated grainy production (even though he filmed it on digital too).

I've yet to watch the 'Disaster artist' but I hear it's good.

'Hi'
'Can I help you?'
'Yeah can I have a dozen red roses please *removes sunglasses*'
'Oh Hi Johnny I didn't know it was you, here you go'
'That's meee'

'How much is it?'
'That's be eighteen dolla...'
'Here you go, keep the change, Hi doggie'
'You're my favourite customer'
'Thanks a lot, byeee'

(It's Garth Marenghi style dialogue).

---

And then we delve into the mystery of the man himself, Tommy Wiseau. An enigma. A mystery, who lied about his age and country of origin (which is fine - but it gets weirder) - How he amassed so much cash to spunk on this film ($6 million) - His story changing, selling or buying jackets from South Korea/ someone giving him the cash.

His bizarre behaviour on set - demanding ALL the actors hover around most of the scenes, just in case he wants to throw them in. His weird 'open-set' sex scenes, his weird interviews.
The spoon pictures. The dialogue. Tommy arguing /insulting the cast and crew.

I know I'm late to the party, I had heard about this, but just thought people were playing up to it. But it's just stunningly bizarre and uncanny.

Anyone have any thoughts? I really want to learn more about this.

Kryton

I understand this is probably in the realm of neo-hipster 'cult' status, I don't want to be that guy. But this is painfully bad. But I heard Wiseau more or less travels the world to give talks and viewings, which is amazing that he's managed to salvage something from it.

I'm skipping through it on Youtube and spilling my thoughts.

'WHERE'S MY FUCKING MONEY DANNY!?'

'Let's take him to the pooooolice'

'What did that man want from you?'



Why did they choose the 35mm over the digital stuff? Why did they choose a green screen background when they had access to a fully functioning roof-top with a view (he spent fuckloads on that btw).

'I owe him some money!'

'What kind of money''

---

'Are you okay Danny?'

'I'm ok'

'Are you ok?'

'I'm ok''

'What's ok, he's taking drugs!' (Seconds after she asks him if he's selling or dealing).

--

Why does the rooftop have an identical church immediately to the left of the same church? Wtf? Is that just bad placement or what? Symbolic?

How old is Danny supposed to be? Why does he keep letting himself into the house? Why do they let him flop down on the bed during sexy time?

Wait - Tommy just reappared, I thought he was taking the criminal to the police? He just reappeared in the scene about a minute later.

--

'Let's go home' (they live about sixty seconds away, why would anyone say that?)

'I miss you'
'I just saw you, what are you talking about?'
'I just wanted to hear your sexy voice, I keep thinking about your strong hands around my body'

--

'I did NOT hit her, it's not true, it's bullshit. I did not hit her' *Throws bottle* ' I did naaaat - Oh Hi Mark'


Why did he laugh at the story about the woman being hospitalised?

'Haha what a story Mark!'



Sebastian Cobb

There are much better, more charming shit films. Like Futurekick or Gymkata.

Shit Good Nose

Quote from: Sebastian Cobb on June 20, 2020, 06:39:47 PM
There are much better, more charming shit films. Like Futurekick or Gymkata.

Agreed.   Plus a myriad of others.

I've said before I don't even think it's a so bad it's good film - it's just dull and dreary.  I've seen it with a "knowing" crowd and it was worse if anything, and I've seen it with a live MST3K style commentary panel.  It was quite telling that the only times they really got any decent material was with all of the "best" moments (which are actually few and far between despite the relatively short run time), and I heard one of the panel say after that they should have gone for their alternative choice instead (which was Samurai Cop).

The history and making of the film and the enigma of Wiseau are FAR more interesting and entertaining. 

I've yet to see The Disaster Artist, but have it in the Netflix list.

It is easily the greatest "bad" film of all time and will never been equalled or topped. I know that fellow bad movie connoisseurs are mad that The Room has become a normie cultural phenomenon, so they will act like different bad movies deserve the title, but they are demonstrably in the wrong.


Quote from: Shit Good Nose on June 20, 2020, 06:46:28 PM
Agreed.   Plus a myriad of others.

I've said before I don't even think it's a so bad it's good film - it's just dull and dreary.  I've seen it with a "knowing" crowd and it was worse if anything, and I've seen it with a live MST3K style commentary panel.  It was quite telling that the only times they really got any decent material was with all of the "best" moments (which are actually few and far between despite the relatively short run time), and I heard one of the panel say after that they should have gone for their alternative choice instead (which was Samurai Cop).

The history and making of the film and the enigma of Wiseau are FAR more interesting and entertaining. 

I've yet to see The Disaster Artist, but have it in the Netflix list.

Strongly disagree here. The book was fairly entertaining but I sort of wish I had never read it. The movie is better when it is just a mysterious anomaly. Tune out all of the hype and the tedious midnight fan screenings and the rest and just enjoy it on its own terms.

"Dull"? Not "so bad it's good"? What?!

Shit Good Nose

First time I saw it was pre-hype on the American DVD.  We were both totally bored off our bollocks.  Everyone subsequently told me "no, no, you need to see it with a crowd Rocky Horror/Sound of Music stylee", which I dutifully did.  Bored off my bollocks again.  Then everyone told me "no, no, you need to see it with a bunch of comedians doing a live pisstake commentary MST3K stylee", which I dutifully did.  Still bored off my bollocks.  Just absolute gash.

Noodle Lizard

I somewhat disagree with Pearly about reading the book. If you're into it to the point where you're obsessing over what the fuck was going on behind the scenes, absolutely read The Disaster Artist. It's one of the best books about filmmaking I've ever read, and gives an incredible amount of insight into Wiseau and the other characters involved in the production - it's even stranger than you would've guessed from just watching the thing. I can't recommend the James Franco film, though - it completely misses the point, and isn't especially funny or good in and of itself.

The screenings have been hit or miss, in my experience. If Wiseau and/or Greg Sestero are in attendance, they tend to be far more fun.

Bazooka

Quote from: Pearly-Dewdrops Drops on June 20, 2020, 07:10:04 PM
It is easily the greatest "bad" film of all time and will never been equalled or topped. I know that fellow bad movie connoisseurs are mad that The Room has become a normie cultural phenomenon, so they will act like different bad movies deserve the title, but they are demonstrably in the wrong.

I concur, we are past the point where anything as bad won't be considered a parody or it's simply atrocious because money and big source material is thrown at a project and the end result is  mess because it had no vision.

Replies From View

I feel like it's overhyped to be honest.  If I'd stumbled upon it myself in some way I'd probably see what everyone else can see in it, but I'd heard about it being this BEST WORST FILM EVER and saw it in the cinema surrounded by an audience calling out of bits of script I hadn't heard yet and lobbing plastic spoons around the cinema.

Which I can appreciate is all part of the experience but it's bloody alienating if you're not part of that culture yet.  It's not to say I think people are wrong about the film, but imagine going to see Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory for the first time, and finding the audience constantly suddenly clambering to its feet to join in the songs when you're only at the stage of trying to see what you can get out of it for yourself.  "I'VE GOT A GOLDEN TICKET, I'VE GOT A GOLDEN WIFE WHO STAYS IN BED!  I'VE GOT A GOLDEN TICKET AND A GOOOOOLLLLLLDEEEENNNNN DEEEEAAAD" - hold on there mate you're slightly overwhelming my very first encounter of this to be honest.  Ha nice moment there with a musical lock to the inventing room, except the people the row behind you bellow "RACHMANINOFF" before Mike Teevee's mum says it.  And everyone has brought in live chickens to suddenly cut the heads off during the boat scene.

Not so much "adding to the film" as "ruining it".

Noodle Lizard

Quote from: Replies From View on June 20, 2020, 10:43:29 PM
I feel like it's overhyped to be honest.  If I'd stumbled upon it myself in some way I'd probably see what everyone else can see in it, but I'd heard about it being this BEST WORST FILM EVER and saw it in the cinema surrounded by an audience calling out of bits of script I hadn't heard yet and lobbing plastic spoons around the cinema.

Which I can appreciate is all part of the experience but it's bloody alienating if you're not part of that culture yet.  It's not to say I think people are wrong about the film, but imagine going to see Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory for the first time, and finding the audience constantly suddenly clambering to its feet to join in the songs when you're only at the stage of trying to see what you can get out of it for yourself.  "I'VE GOT A GOLDEN TICKET, I'VE GOT A GOLDEN WIFE WHO STAYS IN BED!  I'VE GOT A GOLDEN TICKET AND A GOOOOOLLLLLLDEEEENNNNN DEEEEAAAD" - hold on there mate you're slightly overwhelming my very first encounter of this to be honest.  Ha nice moment there with a musical lock to the inventing room, except the people the row behind you bellow "RACHMANINOFF" before Mike Teevee's mum says it.  And everyone has brought in live chickens to suddenly cut the heads off during the boat scene.

Not so much "adding to the film" as "ruining it".

Well yeah, that's hardly the best way to see it for the first time. That's like thinking Rocky Horror isn't worth anyone's time because you saw it with a bunch of lads in drag miming along to it in front of the screen, or going to a concert of a band you've never listened to and being disgruntled by everyone singing along to songs you don't know. The idea of those screenings is that everyone's already very familiar with the film, to the point where audience members essentially have scripted responses and reactions to various moments.

I saw it for the first time by myself at home, long after it had attained "best worst movie" notoriety and, after a couple of gos round, it really clicked for me to the point where I'd consider it among my favourite films. I resisted it at first too, thinking that nothing that got this much (admittedly goofy and hyperbolic) attention could possibly be worthwhile. It is, though. I also came across it at a time where I was, myself, surrounded by aspiring filmmakers and actors, and The Room is basically an extreme example of everything those delusions of grandeur and misplaced hope can lead to.

Famous Mortimer

I'm one of the early-ish adopters (I bought it on DVD over ten years ago, I think) so it's been fun watching the reputation build and all that. I remember being able to introduce it to people who'd never even heard of it before. But everything Wiseau has done since (The Neighbors, any time he's in someone else's movie) has been just miserable.

Also, Gymkata is a fun movie. It doesn't deserve to be in this thread at all.

Quote from: Pearly-Dewdrops Drops on June 20, 2020, 07:10:04 PM
It is easily the greatest "bad" film of all time and will never been equalled or topped. I know that fellow bad movie connoisseurs are mad that The Room has become a normie cultural phenomenon, so they will act like different bad movies deserve the title, but they are demonstrably in the wrong.

Arguing over what's the best so-bad-it's-good movie is perhaps a fool's errand, but there are a handful that deserve to be in the conversation, I think:

Any Neil Breen movie
Things
Dangerous Men
Samurai Cop
After Last Season (although I now think it was made bad on purpose, probably)
Troll 2
Miami Connection
Birdemic
Demon Cop
The Roller Blade Seven
Cool As Ice
A Talking Cat?!
Saving Christmas
Creating Rem Lezar




Famous Mortimer



This oversimplifies things a bit, but to me the difference between The Room and most other "worst movie" contenders is that the hallmark of your typical so-bad-its-good movie is usually a delusional attempt to achieve something far beyond the actual budget of the movie (or the shooting schedule, or acting abilities of the cast, or other structural limitations). The Room is in some ways the opposite, i.e. it had a budget that greatly exceeded what Tommy Wiseau wanted to present.

So you have a somewhat competently filmed movie that serves as the perfect canvas to show off the insane and confounding script, which is then amplified up to 11 by the fact that Tommy Wiseau also acts in an insane and confounding manner, and that due to his dictatorial control over the production nobody could ever tell him it was insane and confounding.

SavageHedgehog


Attila

I saw The Room a few years back (and had known about it for longer), then saw it with the Rifftrax commentary. I kept recommending it to Mr Attila, who likes outsider films, but for whatever reason, he had it confused with Room (which was an ok film, but the book made me feel gross) which he didn't want to see.

When the Disaster Artist popped up on Netflix, he wanted to watch it, and he really enjoyed it. So we went back to watch The Room, finally, and then we looked at The Talented Mr Ripley.

I've read The Disaster Artist, which I really enjoyed.

The Room completists should also check out the Greg Sestero Puppetmaster (it's also been Rifftrax'd, if you want to see it with commentary.)

PlanktonSideburns

Wish I was minted. Then I could reconfigure all of my abuses and bad ideas as iconic moments


BeardFaceMan

Quote from: Kryton on June 20, 2020, 03:46:26 PM
I understand this is probably in the realm of neo-hipster 'cult' status, I don't want to be that guy. But this is painfully bad. But I heard Wiseau more or less travels the world to give talks and viewings, which is amazing that he's managed to salvage something from it.


The only reason he's been able to salvage anything from it is because of hipsters sneering at it.

SavageHedgehog

Sometimes there's a bit more to it than that. It's a genuinely personal and weird piece of art. Sometimes it is just that though. On the extras for  The Disaster Artist a lot of the actors talk about how it has something to it to be so much better remembered all these years later, how it's unique etc. Then Seth Rogan ends it by saying "the movie is a gigantic piece of shit, uhu-uhu-uhu. Fuck Seth Rogan.

neveragain

Given the lack of a second " I'm going to assume he ended the documentary by saying "Fuck Seth Rogan."

C_Larence

Disaster Artist the book is so much better than Disaster Artist the movie. Listen to the audiobook for Sestero's great impression of Tommy

Kryton

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3gTyF-wLa-E

Multiple layers now. Wiseau examines a scene examined in the Disaster artist.

Actually this is fucking great - He's commenting on the guy playing him to bring in more energy.

Famous Mortimer

Quote from: BeardFaceMan on June 21, 2020, 09:29:40 AM
The only reason he's been able to salvage anything from it is because of hipsters sneering at it.
It's why he occasionally shows up in things like "Samurai Cop 2", which could have been titled "crew sneering with contempt at their own cast - the movie".

Billy

The last few times I've seen it at the Prince Charles have been ruined by gangs of Legend Gary's who decide that they themselves are funnier than the film and start shouting perceived nuggets of hilarity over every single line and scene, drowning out the film itself and consisting of mostly unpleasant sexist comments and screamed obscenities every time the main female character appears on screen. Pre-Disaster Artist it was much more good natured.

Noodle Lizard

Quote from: Billy on June 28, 2020, 12:54:40 AM
The last few times I've seen it at the Prince Charles have been ruined by gangs of Legend Gary's who decide that they themselves are funnier than the film and start shouting perceived nuggets of hilarity over every single line and scene, drowning out the film itself and consisting of mostly unpleasant sexist comments and screamed obscenities every time the main female character appears on screen. Pre-Disaster Artist it was much more good natured.

I heard the same thing from a friend of mine who saw one with me in LA (with Wiseau/Sestero and a surprise "Lisa's Mom" in attendance) where they happen often and people seem to almost be working off a script with their interjections, perfectly timed and phrased. Then he took a friend to see one at the PCC and said it was just a mess of lads yelling all kinds of unfunny shite. This was 2013 or so, before The Disaster Artist.

Armin Meiwes

Yeah I remember having this discussion with someone when I was trying to get them to watch it who was all "urgh I hate the whole so bad it's good film thing" and whilst I don't hate that (troll 2 is prob my favourite of that genre), The Room really does sit in its own category entirely, as a sort of monument to one man's bizarre obsession with becoming famous despite having no talent for acting or writing and no understanding at all of human beings. Think Greg said in the Disaster Artist that The Room had about as much understanding of human nature as if an alien had written it, which seems about right.

Was always loathe to go to one of those PCC screenings, especially after the Disaster Artist film came out, for the reasons given above, but eventually bit the bullet a couple of years ago and i might have just been lucky but actually the audience wasn't bad. Apart from one person who kept shouting out the same not funny joke every time we had the San Fran skyline cut scene it was all pretty chilled out really. Even the spoons thing was a lot more low key than I had expected (luckily, as all that stuff makes me cringe a bit). Tommy was v funny and clearly loves having an audience to play up to, Greg seemed liked he'd accidentally taken a sleeping pill instead of a headache tablet, or something, though, never seen someone look more fucked out of their brainbox.

Sebastian Cobb

Quote from: Famous Mortimer on June 20, 2020, 11:06:36 PM
I'm one of the early-ish adopters (I bought it on DVD over ten years ago, I think) so it's been fun watching the reputation build and all that. I remember being able to introduce it to people who'd never even heard of it before. But everything Wiseau has done since (The Neighbors, any time he's in someone else's movie) has been just miserable.

Also, Gymkata is a fun movie. It doesn't deserve to be in this thread at all.

Arguing over what's the best so-bad-it's-good movie is perhaps a fool's errand, but there are a handful that deserve to be in the conversation, I think:

Any Neil Breen movie
Things
Dangerous Men
Samurai Cop
After Last Season (although I now think it was made bad on purpose, probably)
Troll 2
Miami Connection
Birdemic
Demon Cop
The Roller Blade Seven
Cool As Ice
A Talking Cat?!
Saving Christmas
Creating Rem Lezar

I'm tempted to include Class of 1999 on a list like this but also have too much love for Pam Grier to go through with it.

SavageHedgehog

I saw it at the Cinema City in Norwich in early 2013. It was introduced by a then relatively uncontroversial sitcom writer. It was fun, I don't t recall any particularly egregious legend Garying.