Glinner V: The Dream(ed up) Child (molestors): A New Carbon-era

[madhair60]

the karen stuff is exhausting

[Blue Jam]

^^^Everything Cuellar said, plus as someone who has worked in customer service I have found male customers far more aggressive and frightening, especially when I've been selling them alcohol, and it's interesting to note that there's no sneering nickname for men like that.

the karen stuff is exhausting

"Ohmigod, my mom is such a Karen, she won't let me play video games until I've done my homework"

It's one reason I quit Reddit, it's so fucking tedious and it's everywhere.

[Pancake]

I don't want to live in a world where snippy (often) racist white women can't be given an appropriate moniker then mocked online. I suspect you're dramatically misunderstanding the origins of this meme; it was created to mock not hate, and to mock people worthy of being mocked.

[madhair60]

it's truly dull stuff, oversaturated like almost everything else of its nature.

[Lisa Jesusandmarychain]

^^^Everything Cuellar said, plus as someone who has worked in customer service I have found male customers far more aggressive and frightening, especially when I've been selling them alcohol, and it's interesting to note that there's no sneering nickname for men like that.

"Ohmigod, my mom is such a Karen, she won't let me play video games until I've done my homework"

It's one reason I quit Reddit, it's so fucking tedious and it's everywhere.

( Legend) Garys? ( Garries?)

[Pancake]

Exactly, and once it leaves the confines of it's origins and enters the orbit of middle-aged white comedy forum users it's by definition tedious and saturated.

Doesn't suddenly make it problematic.

[Jumblegraws]

The term seems to have evolved from the 'I want to speak to the manager haircut' meme on reddit, and like that meme it was being used, in its early days, as a shorthand for 'women - cuh, annoying how they're always talking, like moooom stop embarrassing me!!!'. It smacks of teenage boy. Any clip of a woman doing ANYTHING would be pounced on if she had a short, bob haircut. 'Ha ha typical!!!' It was no different from the 'nagging wife' trope.

There have since been claims made that it's a rallying cry from put upon, majority POC waiting staff to strike back at privileged white women. But if I'm honest, I'm not seeing it. And even if it was, why just women? Is it only women who are racist to POC waiting staff? Why does it need a specific term for 'annoying woman'.

It's also mutated now to just mean 'woman doing something'. Again, I've said it before, but there was a video on reddit of Extinction Rebellion blocking a road entitled 'KARENS BLOCK ROAD DURING RUSH HOUR'. Right, so it's just any protest now is it? Protestors are just Karens now, bloody Karens. 'Look at this Karen sitting at the front of the bus!!! Like, some people have jobs to go to Karen!!!'

Get rid of it. Pointless term.

My counter to this is that I've only ever seen it used on Twitter, almost exclusively by women and by WOC in particular, and I'm not about to lecture them about internalised misogyny.

[Blue Jam]

it's truly dull stuff, oversaturated like almost everything else of its nature.

Yes, maybe "Karen" was intended to mock a certain subset of privileged racist white women, but when it's overused to describe any woman doing anything, or even a hypothetical woman ("No, I don't believe vaccines cause autism, Karen"), it loses that power, no?

(incidentally, I have seen a lot of Redditors calling antivaxxers "Karens", despite the fact that the whole antivax movement was started by Andrew Wakefield, a man)

( Legend) Garys? ( Garries?)

I did think about that but I think of a Legend Gary more as a man (or occasionally a woman) with a somewhat sociopathic sense of humour who doesn't know when they've gone too far and who can dish it out but can't take it at all. I don't think of them as being especially aggressive towards bar staff or creepy towards women.

Now you've got me trying to sum up the essence of Gary, and what would be in a Legend Gary Starter Pack.

[Pancake]

It's a bit like 'basic bitch', a term created to give an easy shorthand to a certain type of person, now I hate the b word so would never use it but the characterisation was accurate. You probably have to be immersed in certain online microcultures to get it but not getting it doesn't invalidate it.

[Blue Jam]

"basic bitch", nope, nothing problematic about that one.

Certain online microcultures can get to fuck. And not get to play video games before they've done their homework.

[Thomas]

I understand the origins of the meme, and have occasionally enjoyed it at times, even though the only Karen I've ever heard of is Karen Gillan.

There have been plenty of working class and poor stereotypes (oft-borrowed from Little Britain) so it was about time for a middle class one - and only then did the worried columnists speak out. I should note that, whilst I, from an uninterested distance, have generally perceived the Karen of the meme to be comfortably middle class, some have claimed her to be working class, thus condemning the meme as classist.

My main reason for disliking the meme would be that it's popular. I hate shortcuts to universally agreed humour. I've seen comedians do unfunny pretend rants, and then tack 'Karen' on the end to achieve laughter. Should be fired from comedy.

[Jumblegraws]

Yes, maybe "Karen" was intended to mock a certain subset of privileged racist white women, but when it's overused to describe any woman doing anything, or even a hypothetical woman ("No, I don't believe vaccines cause autism, Karen"), it loses that power, no?

(incidentally, I have seen a lot of Redditors calling antivaxxers "Karens", despite the fact that the whole antivax movement was started by Andrew Wakefield, a man)

You're out by a couple of centuries if you think Wakefield started the antivax movement. His main contribution was publicising the bogus autism-MMR link.

[apopheniac]

Karen's definitely become a euphemism for "bitch" in some circles, but I do think the initial idea captured a specific kind of bigoted white woman really well. I did like the SNL "black Jeopardy" sketch that used it, not sure if that's the origin or not.

As for Glinner, I do worry that people will think he's changed, just because he's keeping his obsessive bullying to group conversations instead of out in the open. You had to see his awful twitter feed to really get a feel for how awful he was, I think. So hopefully he doesn't regain a platform that way.

[PlanktonSideburns]

I don't want to live in a world where snippy (often) racist white women can't be given an appropriate moniker then mocked online. I suspect you're dramatically misunderstanding the origins of this meme; it was created to mock not hate, and to mock people worthy of being mocked.

Just  call them bellends innit. Works for all genders, no prob

[Pancake]

Yes I totally understand how something can transition (arf) into tedium and become misused by more nefarious players, but don't make the mistake of erasing the initial intention because of it, which was (although not exclusively) actually being used to empower POC by shaming the racist busybodies they called Karen.

[here4glinner]

As for Glinner, I do worry that people will think he's changed, just because he's keeping his obsessive bullying to group conversations instead of out in the open. You had to see his awful twitter feed to really get a feel for how awful he was, I think. So hopefully he doesn't regain a platform that way.

It's good that the Telegraph did the full write-up so it can counter those who claimed he was cancelled for the singular tweet of 'men aren't women'.

[Barry Admin]

I did think about that but I think of a Legend Gary more as a man (or occasionally a woman) with a somewhat sociopathic sense of humour who doesn't know when they've gone too far and who can dish it out but can't take it at all. I don't think of them as being especially aggressive towards bar staff or creepy towards women.

At the risk of a shit trans joke: Does this mean that Karens can occasionally be men?

My main reason for disliking the meme would be that it's popular. I hate shortcuts to universally agreed humour. I've seen comedians do unfunny pretend rants, and then tack 'Karen' on the end to achieve laughter. Should be fired from comedy.

Yes, this is what makes most memes terrible. There's a small window where they might be apposite and amusing, then they just become "oooh, you missed a bit" tier cuntery.

[Jumblegraws]

Sorry to interrupt the Karen debate, but I just realised that Glinner's appearance reminds me of Bruno the Trashcan Man from Sesame Street and I needed to tell everyone.

[chveik]

It's one reason I quit Reddit, it's so fucking tedious and it's everywhere.

oh for fucks sake

[chveik]

There have since been claims made that it's a rallying cry from put upon, majority POC waiting staff to strike back at privileged white women.

not a claim mate, it's true.

does 'Karen is a slur' count as hand-wringing?

[Blue Jam]

oh for fucks sake

Look at what Neil said. It had just become very boring. Meme culture needs to get in grave.

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

I did think about that but I think of a Legend Gary more as a man (or occasionally a woman) with a somewhat sociopathic sense of humour who doesn't know when they've gone too far and who can dish it out but can't take it at all. I don't think of them as being especially aggressive towards bar staff or creepy towards women.

Legend Gary acts creepy towards women but mainly because he thinks banter as a concept is a behavioural biodome impervious to external rules, including established laws. It wouldn't occur to Gary that any behaviour displayed under the auspices of banter could be creepy because how is having a laugh creepy - you need to lighten up love/mate. Banter is in his eyes the highest mode of being and the reason to be alive. Legend Gary stole all your knickers in Magaluf, carefully sewing them into a functional lasso.

He would only be aggressive to bar staff under moments of extreme injustice (eg. too much head on a pint).

[idunnosomename]

graham is a slur

[Blue Jam]

Legend Gary acts creepy towards women but mainly because he thinks banter as a concept is a behavioural biodome impervious to external rules, including established laws. It wouldn't occur to Gary that any behaviour displayed under the auspices of banter could be creepy because how is having a laugh creepy - you need to lighten up. Banter is in his eyes the highest mode of being and the reason to be alive. Legend Gary stole all your knickers in Magaluf, carefully sewing them into a functional lasso.

He would only be aggressive to bar staff under moments of extreme injustice (eg. too much head on a pint).

Really Shoulders? I always had Legend Gary down as the kind of man who would make sexist "banter" with his mates and then when his girlfriend joins them and one of them makes a sexist joke he'll make a big show of calling them out in front of her to show her how he's not like them, honest luv.

With you on your second point though.

[Barry Admin]

not a claim mate, it's true.

does 'Karen is a slur' count as hand-wringing?

Does this post count as backseat moderating?

[Pancake]

Look at what Neil said. It had just become very boring. Meme culture needs to get in grave.

That's as sweeping and dismissive as saying all stand-up needs to get in the sea

[Purple Toupee]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4jQxBPZkQM&feature=youtu.be&t=55

Graham sounding a tad unhinged here. Still hasn't tidied that bookshelf either.

[DreadedScotsman]

graham is a slur

Not yet but if we use it enough for the male version of Karen's then maybe we can get them complaining that it is

I mean in the days before he got booted he tagged a Twitter higher up, Joan McAlpine and Joanna Cherry in a tweet asking if they could ask why he kept getting locked out of his account for defending women's rights, if that's not the Twitter version of "I want to speak to the manager" I don't know what is

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

Really Shoulders? I always had Legend Gary down as the kind of man who would make sexist "banter" with his mates and then when his girlfriend joins them and one of them makes a sexist joke he'll make a big show of calling them out in front of her to show her how he's not like them, honest luv.

With you on your second point though.

I don't make the banter law I'm afraid, that's just how it is - is what he'd say.

I would probably agree if left to his own devices Legend Gary is not creepy to women on a one to one basis barring shitty practical jokes but is so online, with anyone else even remotely in sight, or among others. Any audience and Legend Gary is in bantsmode and potential victims are everywhere.

I also agree occasionally some posts on the LG thread miss that key manchild quality which prevents him from being a 100% piece of shit and come across overly nasty and joyless which narrowly misses the character. He's more pitiable, capable of such inspired acts of vulgarity and shamelessness that occasionally it's almost admirable, but mainly a pathetic little shit treading banter weasel who despite permanently stunted double standards is obsessed with concepts like honour, being mugged off and the sort of person who would find being spat at worse than being attacked with a knife.

[chveik]

Does this post count as backseat moderating?

I admire your patience.