Rebecca Long Bailey sacked [split topic]

[thugler]

That's what defunding the police is about. Take the funds we spend on, say, policing drugs and spend it on social programmes that deal with the problem at its root instead.

It's not that difficult a sell if you frame it correctly.

Yes we're all aware of this. But the phrase 'defund the police' sounds scary and dangerous to people who have often been swayed with promises on law and order and cracking down on crime etc.
In fact whoever came up with that as the thing to call it is a fucking idiot.

[Armin Meiwes]

That's what defunding the police is about. Take the funds we spend on, say, policing drugs and spend it on social programmes that deal with the problem at its root instead.

It's not that difficult a sell if you frame it correctly.

Yes if cutting back on certain "crimes" means less money needs to be spent then that would be a much better framing than the slogan "defund the police" which is just going to be pushed as an anti police thing. Makes more sense to push it in more stark terms in America where police budgets are insanely out of control and have turned their police in to an army.

[Buelligan]

Well, Starmer's the leader.  Perhaps less bluster might be a thing.

Yes we're all aware of this. But the phrase 'defund the police' sounds scary and dangerous to people who have often been swayed with promises on law and order and cracking down on crime etc.
In fact whoever came up with that as the thing to call it is a fucking idiot.

Why are you doing this? 

[thugler]

You think it's a good name?

As aforementioned, it doesn't even make sense in the UK where the police has been cut by the tories.

[Buelligan]

Why do you do this?  Who are you helping?

[Johnny Yesno]

Yes we're all aware of this. But the phrase 'defund the police' sounds scary and dangerous to people who have often been swayed with promises on law and order and cracking down on crime etc.
In fact whoever came up with that as the thing to call it is a fucking idiot.

Someone genuinely forensic would have dealt with that easily, such as with honeychile's or seb cob's suggestions.

Yer beige man is fucking shit at this because he doesn't give a flying fuck at the end of the day.

[Sebastian Cobb]

Yeah a much better reply in the UK would be 'the tories already did a good job of defunding the police during austerity, I pledge to invest more money in various programmes, mental health etc etc to reduce blah blah need for police in the first place'.


I've not seen much acknowledgement from people calling for defunding of British police that the British police have much less money to begin with thanks to austerity and the fact we don't give them money for shitloads of military hardware. I can imagine people constantly on the receiving end of hassle from the met think they have plenty of resources that they use to hassle them though.

After writing this I saw on twitter UK BLM have expanded on this.

When we say 'Defund the police' we mean 'Invest in programmes that actually keep us safe like youth services, mental health and social care, education, jobs and housing. Key services to support the most vulnerable before they come into contact with the criminal justice system'.

But, the most salient answer to my question is in the comment thread.

https://twitter.com/WestLondonFTG/status/1277644025646985216

Let's start with the £4b announced for new prisons. Then let's stop these vanity projects for an inept PM, like the £1m just spent on painting an upside down flag on a plane tail

While the police have been gutted by austerity, the institutions surrounding the police, have not.

[thugler]

Someone genuinely forensic would have dealt with that easily, such as with honeychile's or seb cob's suggestions.

Yer beige man is fucking shit at this because he doesn't give a flying fuck at the end of the day.

Not bothered if he gives a fuck or not. Only about achieving the things we want. Boris doesn't give a fuck either. Even if he's solely motivated by power and winning, that would do if it got some of the stuff we want done. Politicians tend to be cunts.

I don't think many people would argue that 'defund the police' is a good name for this policy in the UK to be honest. I don't think I'm saying anything controversial.

[thugler]

When we say 'Defund the police' we mean 'Invest in programmes that actually keep us safe like youth services, mental health and social care, education, jobs and housing. Key services to support the most vulnerable before they come into contact with the criminal justice system'.

Maybe call it that then. As people clearly don't understand it and have set against it based on the name alone. 'Invest in crime prevention' perhaps as a better name.

Let's start with the £4b announced for new prisons. Then let's stop these vanity projects for an inept PM, like the £1m just spent on painting an upside down flag on a plane tail

So defund prisons and prime ministerial vanity projects and not police then?.

Referring to the investment as the primary aspect and the benefits that would bring to crime reduction, which then allows for defunding elsewhere would seem more sensible.

[Johnny Yesno]

Not bothered if he gives a fuck or not. Only about achieving the things we want. Boris doesn't give a fuck either. Even if he's solely motivated by power and winning, that would do if it got some of the stuff we want done. Politicians tend to be cunts.

Good grief. Just listen to yourself. Sunk cost fallacy.

[Sebastian Cobb]

I think having a clearer message might help them.

I don't think defending Starmer for rejecting them is helping anybody but Starmer though.

[Goldentony]

cunts dont understand it, make sure you call it something cunts can get without having to do any research whatsoever lads

[Goldentony]

hang about john dont pay coppers what the fuckinell hail HORDAK

[Goldentony]

john im not bein funny but theres kids here and theyre talkin about arresting money

[thugler]

cunts dont understand it, make sure you call it something cunts can get without having to do any research whatsoever lads

Because it's a bad slogan that doesn't adequately explain what is proposed, and doesn't even make sense as a slogan in the UK.

If you were going to introduce a generous UBI system in the UK which meant certain benefit payments could be scrapped. You wouldn't call it 'defund the benefits system'. It emphasises something many people would consider a negative. In the US the insane funding of the police means the slogan makes a bit more sense, even there it's been a very divisive slogan that hasn't always been understood whether by 'cunts' or not. Clear communication is important when your advocating big stuff like this.

[Goldentony]

Keir Starmer's a fucking stupid cunt though, he was the DPP for a kick off and everything that comes out of his mouth is fucking idiotic, every time someone agrees with him my first thought is this person has mind VD

[thugler]

I think having a clearer message might help them.

I don't think defending Starmer for rejecting them is helping anybody but Starmer though.

Labour being connected with the phrase 'defund the police' is a recipe for a media shit flinging festival.

Labour announcing their own policy which involves funding for crime prevention and cutting back on new prisons etc. Could well be popular (Not that I expect them to do this unfortunately).

[Paul Calf]

I don't think so.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/kier-starmer-boris-johnson-prime-minister-poll-a9589506.html

Two percentage points is within the margin of error.

[Goldentony]

Even if it was called something like Divert Money From Police Forces Somewhere Else So You Don't Potentially Die Because You Ran For The Train the stupid fat headed cunt disagrees with it and like the RLB thing he knows exactly what he's up to. Labour doesn't even need to address what's going on now because Margarets gone nah love police, best mates, Labour love police, not happening, get over it

[Goldentony]

oh my god why doesnt he fuck off and host a quiz show on ITV

[Sebastian Cobb]

Labour announcing their own policy which involves funding for crime prevention and cutting back on new prisons etc. Could well be popular (Not that I expect them to do this unfortunately).

Why the fuck didn't he allude to something like that rather than try and put them back in their box then?

[Armin Meiwes]

Two percentage points is within the margin of error.

Yeah but I was responding to someone who said Starmer was 20 points behind Johnson, not that they were neck and neck.

[jobotic]

Seen Farage's tweet?

[Buelligan]

Yeah, it's all in the 4D game-plan for Mr "Sir" Keithy.  He knows he's gonna need the Farage endorsement sooner or later, might as well be sooner.  Get used to groundbreaking stuff from our horrific wooden sculpted head.

[Goldentony]

oh yeah I forgot, Keith got endorsed by Osborne and the heicopter fucker, good work

[thugler]

Why the fuck didn't he allude to something like that rather than try and put them back in their box then?

Because Labour being linked with something called 'defund the police' will cause a media shit storm. Especially when it doesn't involve defunding the police in the UK apparently.

[Buelligan]

Labour Friends of English kittens.  Labour Friends of the Stock Exchange.  Labour Friends of Covfefe.  That sort of thing?

Why do you even fucking bother?

[Sebastian Cobb]

Because Labour being linked with something called 'defund the police' will cause a media shit storm. Especially when it doesn't involve defunding the police in the UK apparently.

I don't see how they'd 'be linked' if he pointed out the police had already been defunded by the tories but that labour would prioritise spending on the causes of crime foremost over police and order.

[Goldentony]

I don't see how they'd 'be linked' if he pointed out the police had already been defunded by the tories but that labour would prioritise spending on the causes of crime foremost.

He just doesn't believe it. Instead of push back at the media or have a back bone about literally anything, he's decided to go for the lib dems who've realised the last election made the country a two party system after appointing the fucking maddest person on the planet in charge rather than anyone who signed up with the hope for any kind of genuine shift in this endless fucking nightare.

If he isn't blue Labour i'd be amazed. Mates with everyone!

[Johnny Yesno]

Yeah but I was responding to someone who said Starmer was 20 points behind Johnson, not that they were neck and neck.

Which I then acknowledged was a misremembering of him being 20 points ahead of Johnson in February. He's lost a huge amount of ground against the worst PM we've had in living memory.