Author Topic: Cancelled People Whose Work You Still Enjoy  (Read 11725 times)

Re: Cancelled People Whose Work You Still Enjoy
« Reply #60 on: July 01, 2020, 11:54:33 AM »
Whatever Langham may have been guilty of, I can't dismiss the quality of his work. Help and People Like Us are personal favourites, and for what it's worth he was the best Thenardier of the few I've seen.

NoSleep

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Re: Cancelled People Whose Work You Still Enjoy
« Reply #61 on: July 01, 2020, 12:06:27 PM »
You haven't addressed Ollyboro's point that his wife was dying when he divorced her by fax.

Dying whilst ensuring he couldn't see his daughter.

Shit Good Nose

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Re: Cancelled People Whose Work You Still Enjoy
« Reply #62 on: July 01, 2020, 12:26:29 PM »
Also heartwarming to know that he has since patched things up and is now friends with his dead ex-wife

Re: Cancelled People Whose Work You Still Enjoy
« Reply #63 on: July 01, 2020, 12:28:05 PM »
I'm not an enormous fan of Led Zep, but recognise their  legacy on rock, and they have some great tracks that I'd continue to listen to as I don't have the 'fan' relationship with them.

But surely there's a lot of that generation that are counting the days to cancellation. Page and Iggy Pop are two that immediately come to mind. Being a bigger fan of Iggy, I might struggle to deal with a cancellation. Though at this point it's just a matter of confirmation, isn't it. If the Page stories are true, it's much more than a low level cancellation too.

Dex Sawash

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Re: Cancelled People Whose Work You Still Enjoy
« Reply #64 on: July 01, 2020, 12:32:28 PM »

I've not yet enjoyed Father Ted, have watched 3 episodes and it is so far not very funny and has a very annoying laugh track. Is it possible to cultivate a liking for this by pressing on?

Shit Good Nose

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Re: Cancelled People Whose Work You Still Enjoy
« Reply #65 on: July 01, 2020, 12:34:05 PM »
As touchingcloth said on page 1, if you can't divorce a person from their "art" then you basically preclude almost everything made and created before 2009/10.  Which isn't to say that their crimes (or whatever they've been cancelled for) should be defended or ignored, of course.

earl_sleek

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Re: Cancelled People Whose Work You Still Enjoy
« Reply #66 on: July 01, 2020, 12:49:44 PM »
David Bowie. He hasn't actually been fully cancelled (yet)[1], but he definitely fucked a load of underage girls in the 70s. It's never gonna affect my appreciation of his music, mainly because it's bloody brilliant and helped get me through some awful times, but he also clearly grew as a person and I get the feeling that were he still alive, he'd at least be acknowledging what he did was wrong.[2]
 1. Can you be post-humously cancelled?
 2. Not saying that makes it OK, but...

Twonty Gostelow

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Re: Cancelled People Whose Work You Still Enjoy
« Reply #67 on: July 01, 2020, 12:54:27 PM »
Also heartwarming to know that he has since patched things up and is now friends with his dead ex-wife

That's why I included the more recent photo of them both with their daughter getting on fine and dandy (although I've lost track of who on here's being serious about the subject, if anybody).

Divorce brings out the nasty, irrational side in people, but hopefully that doesn't last. And he did cheat on her!

Shit Good Nose

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Re: Cancelled People Whose Work You Still Enjoy
« Reply #68 on: July 01, 2020, 01:10:18 PM »
And he did cheat on her!

Twice!

(she also cheated on him after the first one, but the relationship was on its downers by then [so you can't really hold her to account] and they were already living, ahem, wait for it............SEPARATE LIVES)

Re: Cancelled People Whose Work You Still Enjoy
« Reply #69 on: July 01, 2020, 01:20:35 PM »
Can you be post-humously cancelled?

SAVILE

Shit Good Nose

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Re: Cancelled People Whose Work You Still Enjoy
« Reply #70 on: July 01, 2020, 01:25:21 PM »
SAVILE

Also Cyril Smith.  I know he wasn't that well liked when he was alive, but early accusations were swatted away.  Almost every year since his death his cancellation list has grown.

rue the polywhirl

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Re: Cancelled People Whose Work You Still Enjoy
« Reply #71 on: July 01, 2020, 01:38:40 PM »
David Bowie. He hasn't actually been fully cancelled (yet)[1], but he definitely fucked a load of underage girls in the 70s. It's never gonna affect my appreciation of his music, mainly because it's bloody brilliant and helped get me through some awful times, but he also clearly grew as a person and I get the feeling that were he still alive, he'd at least be acknowledging what he did was wrong.[2]
 1. Can you be post-humously cancelled?
 2. Not saying that makes it OK, but...

The woman who have claimed to have slept with him while underage are adamant there was no wrongdoing, so I doubt he would either.

Re: Cancelled People Whose Work You Still Enjoy
« Reply #72 on: July 01, 2020, 01:44:03 PM »
He paid money for videos of young children being raped. His denial about being a proper pedo makes me want to condemn him even further. If you do something awful, the least you can do is hold your hands up, rather than bleat that you funded child rape 'for research'. The Thick of It was brilliant but Chris Langham didn't write it so I can simply imagine that any other decent actor could play his role.

Yet after doing his time, he said: "My life has been ruined but my conscience is clear" and complained that the media "completely ignored" the court's "acceptance based upon all the evidence and expert opinion that I have no sexual interest in children".

Fuck that piece of shit.

Didn't his son say something about a 15 year old girl randomly turning up to join them on a family holiday? I certainly got the impression at the time that he was a bit of a rummun on the whole, even if his rather implausible-seeming excuse were true.

Thomas

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Re: Cancelled People Whose Work You Still Enjoy
« Reply #73 on: July 01, 2020, 01:45:58 PM »
The woman who have claimed to have slept with him while underage are adamant there was no wrongdoing, so I doubt he would either.

Bowie's alleged connection to Lori Mattix is unclear, but he never mentioned the issue and then his liver bailed him out minutes before #MeToo.

Iggy is dragging himself along unscathed - despite unequivocally confessional lyrics - but columnists will solemnly ponder the matter once he's dead.

Shit Good Nose

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Re: Cancelled People Whose Work You Still Enjoy
« Reply #74 on: July 01, 2020, 01:48:36 PM »
The woman who have claimed to have slept with him while underage are adamant there was no wrongdoing, so I doubt he would either.

For what it's worth (and this applies to Jimmy Page as well), even though Lori Mattix's general opinion on the whole young girl groupies thing has changed, she still (as far as I know) says that she knew exactly what she was doing and that the relationships and sexual encounters were reciprocal and has mentioned that other girls in the same world have said the same.  Doesn't make it right of course, but it could explain why Page, Bowie and others have not (yet) been cancelled.

Re: Cancelled People Whose Work You Still Enjoy
« Reply #75 on: July 01, 2020, 01:49:59 PM »
Why should Bowie get a free pass? Fuck that.

Re: Cancelled People Whose Work You Still Enjoy
« Reply #76 on: July 01, 2020, 01:52:36 PM »
For what it's worth (and this applies to Jimmy Page as well), even though Lori Mattix's general opinion on the whole young girl groupies thing has changed, she still (as far as I know) says that she knew exactly what she was doing and that the relationships and sexual encounters were reciprocal and has mentioned that other girls in the same world have said the same.  Doesn't make it right of course, but it could explain why Page, Bowie and others have not (yet) been cancelled.

Sorry, my post was about Chris Langham, not Bowie.

Shit Good Nose

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Re: Cancelled People Whose Work You Still Enjoy
« Reply #77 on: July 01, 2020, 01:53:46 PM »
Sorry, my post was about Chris Langham, not Bowie.

So it was.  Amended.

notjosh

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Re: Cancelled People Whose Work You Still Enjoy
« Reply #78 on: July 01, 2020, 02:29:46 PM »
Does anyone else find that some art is more complex and poignant when you know that the artist was a total shit?

My favourite director is John Ford, who in his life was a pretty mean-spirited drunk and a bully, who treated his family and many of his colleagues like shit. But his films are incredibly sensitive, noble and empathetic, and you get the feeling watching them that he was able to express ideas and feelings through his art that he was too proud/insecure/repressed to express in real life. It gives them a very poignant and sad quality - watching a man aspiring to be something that he knows he can never be.

Another example for me would be Jerry Lee Lewis' version of Somewhere Over the Rainbow. This is a bloke who very likely killed at least one of his wives, and did all kinds of mad shit in his life which makes it pretty certain (according to his beliefs) that he's going to hell. I saw a clip of him talking about "the other place" on a BBC documentary, and it's very clear that such a fate is not an abstract idea for him, but a terrifying, haunting possibility. So when he sings about bluebirds flying to a land over the rainbow, free from all Earthly troubles, and wonders, with voice cracking, "why Lord can't I?", it has a resonance which few other singers can match.

Not saying it justifies all the bad shit mind. Though I do remember Reginald D. Hunter having a great (dark) joke about that, which I can't possibly do justice to without the context, that ended something like "so if Michael Jackson needs to fuck a few kids..."

Lisa Jesusandmarychain

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Re: Cancelled People Whose Work You Still Enjoy
« Reply #79 on: July 01, 2020, 02:51:41 PM »
John Peel not been mentioned yet? He gets a lot of leeway , despite his starting a relationship with, and ultimately marrying a 15 year old girl ( although he always maintained that she lied to him about his age, and that). I may also  possibly have mentioned on one occasion before ( maybe) that I used to be drinking buddies with his son's best mate, and he ( my drinking buddy ) always maintained that he ( Peel) was a right cunt.
Doesnae stop me enjoying his work though. Currently working me way through those alphabetically ordered Peel Sessions from that website what was put up on Oscillations a few weeks back, and It's always a delight to click onto one of the sessions in which announcements in his lovely Wirral burr are made both before and after the songs.

earl_sleek

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Re: Cancelled People Whose Work You Still Enjoy
« Reply #80 on: July 01, 2020, 03:01:45 PM »
The woman who have claimed to have slept with him while underage are adamant there was no wrongdoing, so I doubt he would either.

What? Somebody who isn't him said something, so he must have agreed with them? Huh?

Why should Bowie get a free pass? Fuck that.

Nobody said he should. But I said, essentially, the fact that I know he did things that are wrong[1] doesn't stop me enjoying his music. His moral failings have already happened, me not listening to him any more won't change anything.

 1. Because we are so morally perfect and all-knowing, it's not possible we'll ever be judged by future generations on things that currently seem innocuous to us

Re: Cancelled People Whose Work You Still Enjoy
« Reply #81 on: July 01, 2020, 03:20:41 PM »
Yeah it's sad that John Peel did such awful things when he's such an important and towering figure in some of my favourite musical genres. Especially grindcore. Imagine some Radio 1 DJ playing grindcore nowadays.

Re: Cancelled People Whose Work You Still Enjoy
« Reply #82 on: July 01, 2020, 03:22:06 PM »
Eric Clapton may have been a racist but Cream were still good. After he went full on Enoch Powell, his output is less compelling, which makes it easier.

Carl Andre may have thrown his wife Ana Mendieta out a window, but maybe he didn't?

John Lennon, more or less (I will always hate Imagine).

Knut Hamsun (Nazi).

Karl Marx (bad husband). OK maybe "enjoy" is going a bit far. Appreciate.

Plus Glinner (at least Ted and Black Books) and Polanski (at least Knife in the Water/Repulsion/Chinatown/etc, I'm less bothered by the Holocaust Oscar bait and later Carnage/Venus in Furs were a bit shit).

kalowski

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Re: Cancelled People Whose Work You Still Enjoy
« Reply #83 on: July 01, 2020, 03:29:30 PM »
Eric Clapton may have been a racist but Cream were still good. After he went full on Enoch Powell, his output is less compelling, which makes it easier.
Full on Enoch is right. I'd always assumed he'd come on stage and said something like "Enoch was right!" but I recently read the actual words he said and I think Clapton is an utter cunt for it.

Re: Cancelled People Whose Work You Still Enjoy
« Reply #84 on: July 01, 2020, 03:43:21 PM »

Re: Cancelled People Whose Work You Still Enjoy
« Reply #85 on: July 01, 2020, 04:00:29 PM »
David Bowie. He hasn't actually been fully cancelled (yet)[1], but he definitely fucked a load of underage girls in the 70s. It's never gonna affect my appreciation of his music, mainly because it's bloody brilliant and helped get me through some awful times, but he also clearly grew as a person and I get the feeling that were he still alive, he'd at least be acknowledging what he did was wrong.[2]
 1. Can you be post-humously cancelled?
 2. Not saying that makes it OK, but...

Bowie will never be cancelled because the upper middle class liberals who do the canceling are still huge fans of his music.

Sin Agog

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Re: Cancelled People Whose Work You Still Enjoy
« Reply #86 on: July 01, 2020, 04:02:34 PM »
I'm a big fan of the French decadent writers, people like Auguste Villiers de l'Isle-Adam, the Goncourt Brothers, Octave Mirbeau and whatnot, who'd seemingly happily do away with all women and replace them with fuckbots (such as in de l'Isle Adam's The Future Eve), or fuck their clothes or lifeless bodies instead, or reach some beautiful surrealist heaven- 'the blue kingdom of the flies'- by voyeuristically enjoying their granddaughter's trysts with the farmhand such as in Aragón's Irene's Cunt, or pimp out their old mother who scrimped and saved to come visit them (Mirbeau- albeit someone who usually wrote from a moralistic standpoint by concocting the most dismal scenarios, like a guy making a ring out of the iron in his blood, only to be scorned by his lover who'd prefer a pretty dress instead). They're all just so incredibly well-written and out there I can't help but forgive them their perversions.

Re: Cancelled People Whose Work You Still Enjoy
« Reply #87 on: July 01, 2020, 04:06:00 PM »
Aragón's Irene's Cunt you say? Gosh! That sounds rather racy.

Re: Cancelled People Whose Work You Still Enjoy
« Reply #88 on: July 01, 2020, 04:07:18 PM »
Genesis P-Orridge, Captain Beefheart, Mark E Smith, Frank Zappa (not cancelled as such but he had a lot of pretty disgusting opinions)

Ambient Sheep

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Re: Cancelled People Whose Work You Still Enjoy
« Reply #89 on: July 01, 2020, 04:10:39 PM »
Polanski, even though he hasn’t really been properly cancelled. I can’t not love Rosemary’s Baby and Chinatown.

Also Repulsion.  (I've not seen Chinatown, mind.)

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