House (/first world) problems - bring me back to earth/do your worst

[Shit Good Nose]

After a couple of pretty horrendous months during lockdown, we now have subsidence which is affecting the entire house (all external and most internal walls have cracks from hairline up to about 2mm in width), the floorboards in the lounge appear to be collapsing (I don't know if it's related to the subsidence, but I can't check what's going on without moving furniture and removing carpet and underlay) and one of the corner internal walls of our kitchen is getting mega mould (again, I don't know if it's related to the subsidence, or if it's just cos it's the internal face of an exterior solid stone wall which isn't able to "breathe" cos of the units).

This is constantly playing on my mind at the moment, to the point where I'm losing sleep over it.  Fortunately the subsidence IS covered by our insurance, but we're still looking at some form of major upheaval in 6-12 months after we've been through the measurement period to check if the house has stopped moving and what sort of cure/prevention the contractors need to do.  But the floorboards - I don't want to pull everything up and find that all our floorboards are rotting and need replacing, and the mould is behind kitchen units and the gas pipework for the hob - I don't want to face the potential problems of that AT ALL.

On top of all that, I've been pushing Mrs Nose to agree to move to a bigger house (little Nose isn't so little any more, and our two bed miner's cottage is starting to feel VERY cramped), but the subsidence has put the kibosh on that for at least 7 or 8 months, more likely a year plus.

I'm sure a big part of this is just the lockdown talking, and if everyday life was "normal" I wouldn't be stressing so much and would be a bit more practical and pragmatic about it, but it's all just there in the back of my mind every single second of every single day.

Also appreciate and acknowledge we have our own roof over our heads and loads of people are living in MUCH worse circumstances.  But when you've got a problem, it's a problem isn't it? (rhetorical)

Mrs Nose isn't bothered at all by any of it (if I left it to her none of the above would be addressed at all) and doesn't seem to keen on the idea of moving either.


Just help me pull my head out of my ass...

[Zetetic]

Do you own any tealights?

[confettiinmyhair]

This happened to a friend, I think they spoke to their buildings insurance company and they identified the true extent of the damage through a surveyor. That gave them an idea of the costs for repairs and what nots. Think they moved to a new build property in the end.

[Shit Good Nose]

Do you own any tealights?

Yes, loads.  They're ALL fragranced though - does that make it better or worse?

This happened to a friend, I think they spoke to their buildings insurance company and they identified the true extent of the damage through a surveyor. That gave them an idea of the costs for repairs and what nots. Think they moved to a new build property in the end.

We've had a "regular" surveyor come out just to do an initial assessment and to decide whether it was covered by our policy - he (literally) waved off my concerns about it NOT being covered, and also said that although the movement of the building is "quite significant", in relative terms it was nothing to be concerned about and there's zero danger of the house collapsing or windows and doors exploding.  He also thinks that the solution/fix will be one of the minor options rather than full-blown underpinning.  In any case, short of the excess (which is either £1000 or £1500 depending on which part of the policy you look at, and either way I can easily cover it from our savings) all works and related upheaval is covered.

Next Monday we've got a structural engineer coming to do a proper assessment and also fit micrometers all over the place to do the 6 to 12 month measuring, so at that point I'll have a better idea of the extent of the problem.  So it's not as if this particular problem isn't going to be addressed.

[gib]

It's a problem that's fixed by money and you're covered. Deep breath in. And let it out.

The floor - the boards sit on joists and the joists sit on some kind of brickwork, quite how it works will depend on the age of the house but my guess is that some of this brickwork has subsided lowering the joists. The mould and damp is possibly a result of your dampcourse failing when the brickwork slumped.

I would think seriously about moving once you get it patched up. Whatever caused it in the first place could happen again and i can imagine your insurance premiums will start to go up.

[touchingcloth]

Just help me pull my head out of my ass...

Take comfort in the fact that your insurance limits your exposure to the subsidence problem.

On the damp, how old is the house? Are the floorboards carpeted or otherwise covered over? Can you see if there have been any damp proof remedies added anywhere - damp proof course on one on the mortar line or given away by drill holes in the lower courses of bricks? Can you get a board up to see if the undersides have been sprayed with foam?

Our last house was built in 1906 and had a lot of issues with damp, but most of them were exacerbated by previous owners adding some of the damp remedies I mentioned up there, which might stop damp being obvious in the short term, but often just end up trapping the damp and making things worse.

If you want to stay in your house then don't waste time looking for the causes of damage, in particular keep an eye out for dry rot because if your house has a lot of timber that stuff can spread very quickly and be a nightmare to deal with. If you don't want to stay then you should probably still take a look to apprise yourself of what's going on, and depending on your mindset your could remedy it as competently as affordably as you're able to, or else take a judgement call on what potential buyers and their suveyors are likely to find. We had a standard, damp AND structural survey on our place and there was still stuff they didn't find[nb]Their reports were legally watertight so we couldn't complain to them about it.[/nb], so as long as the house isn't completely shitted you'll probably find a happy buyer, and even if it is you'll find someone a little more naive or devil-may-care.

ETA - take anything you hear from people working in the damp proofing/remedy industry with a bucket of salt. I'm convinced things like rising damp don't exist in any meaningful or widespread sense - look at Venice - and a lot of the approach to damp should just be learning to live with it, and keeping windows open when you can and not keeping clothes and papers in areas you know attract damp. Once we got a woodburner installed and pulled the carpets up downstairs the warmth, dry air and airflow helped some of our damp issues massively, but there was no way we were ever going to get that house as draft free and cheap to heat as a newbuild without doing things to it which would cause their own deeper seated damp problems further down the line.

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

Throw out tea lights

Marginal gain

[Shit Good Nose]

It's a problem that's fixed by money and you're covered. Deep breath in. And let it out.

The floor - the boards sit on joists and the joists sit on some kind of brickwork, quite how it works will depend on the age of the house but my guess is that some of this brickwork has subsided lowering the joists. The mould and damp is possibly a result of your dampcourse failing when the brickwork slumped.

I would think seriously about moving once you get it patched up. Whatever caused it in the first place could happen again and i can imagine your insurance premiums will start to go up.

Thanks.  If I can use a long-term concern as leverage to get Mrs Nose to agree to moving, then that's a good thing.

Take comfort in the fact that your insurance limits your exposure to the subsidence problem.

On the damp, how old is the house? Are the floorboards carpeted or otherwise covered over? Can you see if there have been any damp proof remedies added anywhere - damp proof course on one on the mortar line or given away by drill holes in the lower courses of bricks? Can you get a board up to see if the undersides have been sprayed with foam?

Our last house was built in 1906 and had a lot of issues with damp, but most of them were exacerbated by previous owners adding some of the damp remedies I mentioned up there, which might stop damp being obvious in the short term, but often just end up trapping the damp and making things worse.

If you want to stay in your house then don't waste time looking for the causes of damage, in particular keep an eye out for dry rot because if your house has a lot of timber that stuff can spread very quickly and be a nightmare to deal with. If you don't want to stay then you should probably still take a look to apprise yourself of what's going on, and depending on your mindset your could remedy it as competently as affordably as you're able to, or else take a judgement call on what potential buyers and their suveyors are likely to find. We had a standard, damp AND structural survey on our place and there was still stuff they didn't find[nb]Their reports were legally watertight so we couldn't complain to them about it.[/nb], so as long as the house isn't completely shitted you'll probably find a happy buyer, and even if it is you'll find someone a little more naive or devil-may-care.

I think (hope) the mould problem is more to do with the fact that it's a solid stone external wall that has been covered with kitchen units with no provision for ventilation - a few months after we moved in we noticed mould behind the sofa and some shelving units, all of which were up tight against the internal face of external walls.  We cleaned it all and painted it over and then it started coming back again after a few months.  I was on the verge of calling in a builder when I happened to mention it to a work colleague who suggested that the issue might be the lack of ventilation in those spaces and said to try moving the sofa and shelving units a few inches away from the wall so there was an allowance for air movement, and hey presto - that resolved it.  But you can't really move fixed kitchen units a few inches away from the wall.  I've cleaned off what I can and painted over with anti-mould paint.  I don't think it has anything to do with the subsidence as that only happened in the last couple of weeks, whereas this mould looks like it's been building up for ages.

I don't think we have any damp issue either, as all the mortar is sound and not friable, and the wooden roof frame is sound as well (in fact when we had our roof re-tiled and waterproofing replaced a few years ago, the roofer remarked that the 100+ year old original timbers were sturdier and in better shape than most new builds he'd worked on).  As for the floorboards - as I said, covered with underlay and carpet and where the boards have collapsed (we are only talking two areas of about a foot square, so PARTS of a foorboard rather than a whole one) there's our main sofa and a table.  There's also a rug which has been taped down (to prevent trips).

TL;DR - I'm basically too lazy and too paranoid to go digging around and potentially open Pandora's Box.

Our house is a similar vintage as your last one - 1908 or 1911 (I can't remember which).  Solid lime and Bath stone construction (the walls are getting on for 2ft thick with no cavity).  Generally it's in pretty good shape, and more than one person has commented that ours will probably still be standing long after their post-80s executive homes have crumbled to dust.  But that doesn't make me feel any better in the here and now.

Woe is me, etc.

[Sebastian Cobb]

You're doing something about it rather than ignoring it, the experts say you're covered and it's not a major concern according to them and you seem to be able to afford the excess. That seems like enough reasons to calm down.

Easier said than done though, innit.

[Shit Good Nose]

Easier said than done though, innit.

Absolutely.

A lot of this I think also stems from having spent most of my childhood growing up in a house that was built by an independent architect and his builder mates.  Oh, sure, the rooms were huge and it looked lovely from the outside, but fuck me that thing was (and still is in some respects - mum still lives there) a money pit for most of the time I was there.  No end of problems.  But I think I'm projecting all that onto our current house (which is in no way comparable in any shape or form) and my stress.

Also Covid.

[gib]

There will be some sort of gap between the back of the kitchen units and the wall, unless you literally see wall when you open a cupboard door and take all the stuff out. If there's any kind of gap then in theory you could get some tiny fans installed there.

[Sebastian Cobb]

I left my warp anniversary record/sleeve collection against a wall in our shared house and both it and the cardboard sleeve went mouldy.

The innards are fine and I still have them, but I was still a little mortified.

[Shit Good Nose]

There will be some sort of gap between the back of the kitchen units and the wall, unless you literally see wall when you open a cupboard door and take all the stuff out. If there's any kind of gap then in theory you could get some tiny fans installed there.

Sorry, I didn't make that bit very clear - so our kitchen units basically completely cover three out of the four walls, including all of the internal faces of the external walls (if that makes sense).  Whilst there is a gap behind each unit (i.e. the units themselves are not flush to the wall), they are attached to the walls with brackets, and the counter top is fixed to both the kitchen units and the wall.  So, basically, in order to get to the wall itself just to get a good idea what's going on is to remove the entire counter top (as the units are connected to the wall and countertop at different points) and then also completely remove at least three units, which are also fixed to each other as well as the wall.  In other words it's a construction job just getting the fucking things out.

The only access point to the wall at the moment is a cut-out where the gas comes in to the hob, and that's how I can see and get to part of the mould, but I'm sure it's only part of it as it's creeping above the countertop (which is what clued me into it in the first place).


The image of lots of tiny fans made me LOL.

[Elderly Sumo Prophecy]

You were going on about sparrows in your roof void recently. Your house sounds shit mate.

[Shit Good Nose]

You were going on about sparrows in your roof void recently. Your house sounds shit mate.

Oh, that's a mere footnote now.  Bigger house fish to fry.

(besides, I'm pretty confident they've not caused any damage, and we've started to see the chicks make their way awkwardly down to the bird feeders in the last couple of days)

[Pingers]

How does it work with insurance. Do you have to do the work/ make the claim in this policy period or have a massive hike in your premium next time because, yknow, you've got subsidence.

Also, we should all battle it out as to whether the stress goes on the first or second syllable of subsidence.

Also, what happened to all my question marks.

[Shit Good Nose]

How does it work with insurance. Do you have to do the work/ make the claim in this policy period or have a massive hike in your premium next time because, yknow, you've got subsidence.

Also, we should all battle it out as to whether the stress goes on the first or second syllable of subsidence.

I made a phone call to our insurance company and, as far as I know, they'll be organising everything from now on and then at some point I'll have to pay the excess.  As for what happens to premiums - according to both our policy and the first surveyor that came round it all depends on the cause of the subsidence and what work is done.  If the cause is not a big long term concern and the fix is a permanent solution, we'll apparently only see a small rise akin to a standard annual increase.  If it's an ongoing concern and the fix will only be a short-term solution, then we're probably fucked both in terms of insurance costs and being able to move.

[Pingers]

I made a phone call to our insurance company and, as far as I know, they'll be organising everything from now on and then at some point I'll have to pay the excess.  As for what happens to premiums - according to both our policy and the first surveyor that came round it all depends on the cause of the subsidence and what work is done.  If the cause is not a big long term concern and the fix is a permanent solution, we'll apparently only see a small rise.  If it's an ongoing concern and the fix will only be a short-term solution, then we're probably fucked both in terms of insurance costs and being able to move.

Well, that's an hour less sleep you'll get tonight, glad I asked.

[Shit Good Nose]

Well, that's an hour less sleep you'll get tonight, glad I asked.

Yes, thanks - you are my hero.

[Emma Raducanu]

I don't even have home insurance so congratulations on at least being organised

[Shit Good Nose]

Organised?  It's illegal to not have home insurance if you've got a mortgage isn't it???????

No idea how it works with rentals and that - presumably it's the building owner in that case and the onus is only on the occupier for contents?

[Emma Raducanu]

I got insurance the year we bought the house and then never bothered after that. Probably should though

[Shit Good Nose]

I've quickly checked that - it's NOT a legal requirement, however most mortgage lenders won't lend unless you have insurance, and they are able to check in a similar fashion as the rozzers can check if a car is insured.

So either you haven't got a mortgage and own the house outright, or your lender didn't/doesn't require you to have insurance.

[touchingcloth]

I think (hope) the mould problem is more to do with the fact that it's a solid stone external wall that has been covered with kitchen units with no provision for ventilation - a few months after we moved in we noticed mould behind the sofa and some shelving units, all of which were up tight against the internal face of external walls. 

Ah, sounds about right. My parents used to live in a house which was built of stone and in places butted up to stone surfaces, and they had a lot of problems for the same reasons - units built in the places which didn't get any ventilation or were made out of the actual ground so they never dried out, or against thick areas of stone on sides of the house which got no sunshine, so part damp seeping into the house, part cold which allowed condensation to build up.

For the kitchen units, could you do something like remove the baseboards/replace them with ones with ventilation grilles, or take the cupboard doors off and have open shelving? It's not the best approach but it's better than nowt.

[Huxleys Babkins]

I've been a bit paranoid about subsidence after spotting some cracks in the plaster of an interior wall last Sunday. Luckily they are vertical rather than diagonal and not particularly thick, plus there's nothing on the other side of the wall which makes me suspect/hope it's shrinkage rather than anything more serious. Still checking it every time I walk past it, though.

[Shit Good Nose]

For the kitchen units, could you do something like remove the baseboards/replace them with ones with ventilation grilles, or take the cupboard doors off and have open shelving? It's not the best approach but it's better than nowt.

Open shelving is a non-starter as each cupboard, except for where the gas pipes go up to the hob, has got a backplate, so removing the cupboard doors won't provide any ventilation at all.

Doing summat with the baseboards is an idea though.  As far as I can tell they're all just held on with a screw on each side, so easy enough to remove and put back.  Might have a fiddle with that over the weekend.  Good advice, ta.

I've been a bit paranoid about subsidence after spotting some cracks in the plaster of an interior wall last Sunday. Luckily they are vertical rather than diagonal and not particularly thick, plus there's nothing on the other side of the wall which makes me suspect/hope it's shrinkage rather than anything more serious. Still checking it every time I walk past it, though.

If the plaster is less than a few years old and it's just located on one internal wall, it's almost certainly just where it's settled - the first surveyor told me settling cracks can appear in new plaster up to five or six years after it's dried depending on the internal environment.

[Emma Raducanu]

Mortgage providers literally ask if you'd like to take insurance with them. You say no, they say ok. I don't say that to be smart. I'm comparing the market now for cheapest deal and Sheila's wheels comes in cheapest at £117. I should just pay it. I've just cancelled my Spotify premium to save £120 though. There goes the savings.

[Shit Good Nose]

Mortgage providers literally ask if you'd like to take insurance with them. You say no, they say ok. I don't say that to be smart. I'm comparing the market now for cheapest deal and Sheila's wheels comes in cheapest at £117. I should just pay it. I've just cancelled my Spotify premium to save £120 though. There goes the savings.

You've still got £3.  Quick call to an 0898 number...



Also, a tad concerned that pretty much all responses have been sensible and serious so far, which is most uncharacteristic - is CaB okay hon?

[gib]

How was your drive up here?

[Shit Good Nose]

How was your drive up here?

Full of immigrants (shakes fist).