Author Topic: Hamilton (on Disney+)  (Read 3294 times)

Blinder Data

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Hamilton (on Disney+)
« on: July 03, 2020, 11:38:08 PM »
Well I just watched this. Seen it twice live and listened to the soundtrack many times.

Thought the ladies who played Angela and Eliza were pretty weak tbh (at least compared to the West End versions). Perhaps this is heresy but I found Lin Manuel Miranda a bit limited. And some songs felt way slower.

But overall it was grand and a respectable representation of the stage show. Didn't drag at all, which was surprising.

Any fans on here?

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Mister Six

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Re: Hamilton (on Disney+)
« Reply #1 on: July 04, 2020, 01:38:23 AM »
Never seen it because everyone I know who loves it is incredibly annoying. Seems like the sort of thing mediocre American liberals pat themselves on the backs for watching.

Love Daveed Diggs, though. Clipping 4 eva.

Re: Hamilton (on Disney+)
« Reply #2 on: July 04, 2020, 01:42:29 AM »
Never seen it because everyone I know who loves it is incredibly annoying. Seems like the sort of thing mediocre American liberals pat themselves on the backs for watching.

Agreed, whilst paying thousands for the privilege.

FerriswheelBueller

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Re: Hamilton (on Disney+)
« Reply #3 on: July 04, 2020, 02:26:02 AM »
Never seen it because everyone I know who loves it is incredibly annoying. Seems like the sort of thing mediocre American liberals pat themselves on the backs for watching.

Love Daveed Diggs, though. Clipping 4 eva.

That was my opinion for a long time, but it is dead good. Saw it live March 8th aka The Before Times.

Neomod

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Re: Hamilton (on Disney+)
« Reply #4 on: July 04, 2020, 08:49:29 AM »
Is Hamilton the only show cast recording with a Parental Advisory sticker?

Looking forward to finally seeing this so that I can sing along, mangling the lyric: History is Happenin' | In Manhattan | And we just happen to be | In the greatest city in the world | In the greatest city in the woooooorld!

Re: Hamilton (on Disney+)
« Reply #5 on: July 04, 2020, 09:31:43 AM »
I thought it was brilliant. I am not a massive musical fan but the songs were great, the show as a whole pretty spectacular and it was a really well-written story. Diggs was a highlights, as well as George III and whoever played Burr. I know hipper-than-thou people like to say it is hip hop for people who don't like hip hop but they are twats

Blinder Data

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Re: Hamilton (on Disney+)
« Reply #6 on: July 04, 2020, 02:23:34 PM »
Having listened to/watched it multiple times, the bits that stick in my craw are now more noticeable. Most of the female characters are wet flannels and are defined by their love of Hamilton. The diverse cast is obvs one of its strong points but when combined with the musical's skin-deep treatment of slavery, it amounts to whitewashing (or blackwashing?) the history of the founding fathers and the early days of the US.

But overall, banging tunes of various styles, extremely clever lyrics for the most part, and it teaches history in a new and exciting way.

Re: Hamilton (on Disney+)
« Reply #7 on: July 04, 2020, 02:30:26 PM »
Perhaps this is heresy but I found Lin Manuel Miranda a bit limited.

I think it's generally accepted that Miranda is not the greatest singer in the cast.

Small Man Big Horse

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Re: Hamilton (on Disney+)
« Reply #8 on: July 05, 2020, 12:33:47 AM »
Having listened to/watched it multiple times, the bits that stick in my craw are now more noticeable. Most of the female characters are wet flannels and are defined by their love of Hamilton. The diverse cast is obvs one of its strong points but when combined with the musical's skin-deep treatment of slavery, it amounts to whitewashing (or blackwashing?) the history of the founding fathers and the early days of the US.

But overall, banging tunes of various styles, extremely clever lyrics for the most part, and it teaches history in a new and exciting way.

I'd not seen this on stage so was a newcomer to it, and I mostly liked it a lot, I cant argue with anything Mister Data says above at all, but it was still a very enjoyable watch, here's the mini-review I wrote of it:

Hamilton (2020) - A filmed version of a performance of the stage show from 2016, it tells the story of the cad Alexander Hamilton and how he fought against the amazing and much loved monarch King George III and helped win America's independence, and some stuff to do with the building of the newly born nation comes after that. It's certainly an impressive work, taking a sometimes dry story (the post war stuff mainly) and making it extremely enjoyable, though some of the humour is occasionally a bit broad and though the songs are very likeable, and lyrically it's impressive, when it comes to truly memorable songs there aren't as many as I thought there would be given the musical's reputation, with only You'll Be Back, Satisfied, Ten Duel Commandments, What'd I Miss?, Take A Break, Burn, and It's Quiet Uptown being ones I imagine I'll revisit on a regular basis. Still, it's quite the feat, and one that deserves a lot of kudos overall for making a story like this such an emotive one. 7.9/10
« Last Edit: July 05, 2020, 12:57:51 AM by Small Man Big Horse »

BritishHobo

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Re: Hamilton (on Disney+)
« Reply #9 on: July 05, 2020, 01:42:20 AM »
Saw it on the West End last year, was nice to get to see it with the original cast. It is odd the way such a diverse retelling doesn't seem to have much if anything to actually say about the racial politics of the time (always a little bit baffled by the bit where I'm supposed to feel bad for the slaveowning Philip Schuyler losing his seat to Aaron Burr) but either way it's so undeniably an astonishing musical that it doesn't seem to matter too much. In execution it's still a fairly radical retelling.

I've listened to the soundtrack enough times but it's always great to get to see it, and the staging, and the audience response to countless moments. Really enhances certain moments, plus you get the lovely scene with Laurens' death letter and yer King sticking around for a while after his last number.

I read someone saying they didn't like it because the rhymes don't always work, Lin had gotten lazy, and it needed a few drafts to tighten it up. Absolute bollocks, right? There's no tighter, more well-thought-out soundtrack going. Every word achingly considered and flowing perfectly.

Re: Hamilton (on Disney+)
« Reply #10 on: July 05, 2020, 01:55:55 AM »
Got to see the West End version. Would agree with the OP that Lin Manuel Miranda as a lead performer wasn't that outstanding. Thought he was a bit goofy at times; which he probably has the freedom to be. Conversely though; he was eager to maximise the talent of those around him but still wanted to take the lead. Being Irish; he did look like he was just dressing up for a Saint Patrick's Day in the second-half. Jamael Westman certainly seemed to have a lot more stature and a less whiny voice.

Was quite impressed by Philippa Soos as Eliza; although I was happy enough with her story but found the Angelica love-triangle story to be a bit draining. Even more so now that it has essentially no evidential basis.

The stand-out performer for sure was Diggs; especially as Jefferson (played Lafayette in the first half). Otherwise the West End production stood up very strong - with both versions of Aaron Burr driving the story throughout with some great routines.

Michael Jibson's King George at the West End also seemed to build a lot more than Groff's; which generally got high praise from any attendees. Jibson was a lot more playful and fun whilst retaining a lot of the seedy cynicism.
Finally; there are a couple of obvious New York references based on it being a Broadway play. Such as New York being the greatest city and the play does make it seem like a hot-bed of the revolution when it was probably the most loyalist of the 13 colonies.

Overall 6.8 out of 10.


Re: Hamilton (on Disney+)
« Reply #11 on: July 05, 2020, 08:36:36 AM »
I read someone saying they didn't like it because the rhymes don't always work, Lin had gotten lazy, and it needed a few drafts to tighten it up. Absolute bollocks, right? There's no tighter, more well-thought-out soundtrack going. Every word achingly considered and flowing perfectly.

I think the "Macbeth" bit is fairly weak, but that's, I don't know, 4 or 5 lines in a musical lasting 2 hours 40, so I wouldn't want to make a big deal out of it.

BritishHobo

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Re: Hamilton (on Disney+)
« Reply #12 on: July 05, 2020, 09:28:36 AM »
This is now getting a kicking on Twitter for its glossing-over of how much all the characters loved owning slaves. As much as I try to disagree in my head, I suppose I can't really. Despite the color-blind casting it is very very kind to people that, in the current BLM climate especially, we're being more honest about in our reevaluations.

I keep wanting to just think 'ah it's a kneejerk reaction to something being popular' - and there are definitely people of that ilk absolutely loving it getting a kicking, and diving in to talk bollocks about the music - but I can't fault or disagree with it. It's still an incredible, once-in-a-generation musical, but I can't forever pretend it can't be critically evaluated like this.

Re: Hamilton (on Disney+)
« Reply #13 on: July 05, 2020, 09:30:47 AM »
I read someone saying they didn't like it because the rhymes don't always work, Lin had gotten lazy, and it needed a few drafts to tighten it up. Absolute bollocks, right? There's no tighter, more well-thought-out soundtrack going. Every word achingly considered and flowing perfectly.

There are some musical theatre buffs who get very upset if every rhyme isn't perfect, and think slant rhymes - which are the bread and butter of rap - are some sort of capital crime. I saw loads of MT wonks rubbishing Groundhog Day for precisely this reason. Hamilton usually gets a pass because of its hip hop DNA, though.

Mister Six

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Re: Hamilton (on Disney+)
« Reply #14 on: July 05, 2020, 11:02:47 AM »
Just want to reiterate that Daveed Diggs' experimental hip-hop group Clipping is brilliant (although the first album does that annoying thing of thinking "experimental" has to = white noise and cacophonous industry sounds artlessly smushed over tracks).

https://youtu.be/s9EsHbqmjN4

https://youtu.be/fIrpLBShe1A

Re: Hamilton (on Disney+)
« Reply #15 on: July 05, 2020, 12:09:13 PM »
This is now getting a kicking on Twitter for its glossing-over of how much all the characters loved owning slaves. As much as I try to disagree in my head, I suppose I can't really. Despite the color-blind casting it is very very kind to people that, in the current BLM climate especially, we're being more honest about in our reevaluations.

I keep wanting to just think 'ah it's a kneejerk reaction to something being popular' - and there are definitely people of that ilk absolutely loving it getting a kicking, and diving in to talk bollocks about the music - but I can't fault or disagree with it. It's still an incredible, once-in-a-generation musical, but I can't forever pretend it can't be critically evaluated like this.

There is only so much you can fit in a musical, and this is 2hrs40 as it is. I don't think every story has to talk about everything that is happening around the time of that story. It is telling a specific story and the characters have a specific part to play in that story. If you want to find out more about those characters in a wider context then there is plenty you can look up.

Re: Hamilton (on Disney+)
« Reply #16 on: July 05, 2020, 06:29:56 PM »
I thought the bit where they mimicked Matrix-style bullet time was astonishingly effective considering how simple it was.

Re: Hamilton (on Disney+)
« Reply #17 on: July 05, 2020, 06:50:46 PM »
I have nothing to add except my entire family (some of whom don't enjoy musicals) enjoy it, and the soundtrack album is excellent as all the plot is in song, and they've only culled a couple of short tunes from the live show. The Mixtape CD is also worth it for a couple of cut songs.

One totally CaB fact though: during her time in England, Angelica Schuyler lived at Down Place in Berkshire. It eventually became Bray Studios, the home of Hammer Films and where Rocky Horror and Alien were filmed. It was also the location for the cover of Come Again...




Re: Hamilton (on Disney+)
« Reply #18 on: July 05, 2020, 11:24:34 PM »
Not seen it myself, but I remember Frank Skinner being a bit scathing.

At 45:20 - https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/uk-absolute-radio/frank-skinner-on-absolute-radio/e/53457450

Re: Hamilton (on Disney+)
« Reply #19 on: July 05, 2020, 11:57:40 PM »
I'll give it a watch now it's available. I passed on exorbitantly-priced/difficult-to-get tickets to see it live, but listened to the soundtrack on recommendation of ... well, pretty much fucking everyone. I personally didn't like it. It sounded like one of those embarrassing "Making History Cool!" things they'd show you in school and was just musically uninteresting (plus Lin Manuel Miranda has been consistently annoying anywhere I've seen him). But there's got to be something to it.

Re: Hamilton (on Disney+)
« Reply #20 on: July 06, 2020, 07:10:44 AM »
I'd been hearing about this on podcasts and the like for like 5 years, and despite giving the Cast Recording a go once, I just don't usually have any urge to make the time to listen to 2.5 hrs+ of narrative music. I just can't sit and listen to that much, so I figured I'd wait.

Turns out it paid off. I watched this over the weekend and loved it. It's got such great energy, some absolute bangers, great performances pretty much all round (LMM might not be the best on the stage, but he's hardly bad) and yeah. I get it now. I wouldn't pay $500 to see it, but I get it. Now I just have to deal with having half the fucking soundtrack stuck in my head for the next few months.

Re: Hamilton (on Disney+)
« Reply #21 on: July 06, 2020, 09:30:23 AM »
Now I just have to deal with having half the fucking soundtrack stuck in my head for the next few months.

It'll be longer than that. It's one of those albums that gets stuck on for long car journeys, because it's music the whole family can agree on (cf. Abba Gold).

Small Man Big Horse

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Re: Hamilton (on Disney+)
« Reply #22 on: July 06, 2020, 10:33:42 AM »
Not seen it myself, but I remember Frank Skinner being a bit scathing.

At 45:20 - https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/uk-absolute-radio/frank-skinner-on-absolute-radio/e/53457450

I enjoyed it a great deal more than Skinner did but I can't argue with some of his criticisms, the exposition in places is a little clumsy and I felt occasionally it was just putting an encyclopedia entry to music, not often but occasionally.

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Re: Hamilton (on Disney+)
« Reply #23 on: July 06, 2020, 11:34:48 AM »
Frank did bang on about loving the Macbeth at the National at around the same time though, which was absolute crap. He's a bit of a contrarian.

Dex Sawash

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Re: Hamilton (on Disney+)
« Reply #24 on: July 06, 2020, 12:05:36 PM »
Was very neutral about this.
The king's songs were a ripoff of Daydream Believer (Monkees song)

Re: Hamilton (on Disney+)
« Reply #25 on: July 06, 2020, 10:45:55 PM »
The king's songs were a ripoff of Daydream Believer (Monkees song)

That's what it fucking was! Thanks.

Re: Hamilton (on Disney+)
« Reply #26 on: July 06, 2020, 10:54:00 PM »
Just want to reiterate that Daveed Diggs' experimental hip-hop group Clipping is brilliant (although the first album does that annoying thing of thinking "experimental" has to = white noise and cacophonous industry sounds artlessly smushed over tracks).

Is the first album Midcity for you, or are you saying that about Clppng?

either way both are fuckin sick as

Midcity was the first thing I bought on Bandcamp. I wanted to pirate it but stumbled on the bandcamp page and felt obliged to pay a fair price for their art, the bastards. I actually vaguely know a guy who has been on an album with Daveed Diggs (True Neutral Crew).

And then I was gonna go down to London or Amsterdam to see them at ATP around that time, but didn't have the cash, and have never had the opportunity to see them since, and now Diggs is a celebrity


Have you heard this unreleased Clipping. b-side? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=punrsuK62fM

Re: Hamilton (on Disney+)
« Reply #27 on: July 06, 2020, 11:17:25 PM »
Phenomenal piece of work

Re: Hamilton (on Disney+)
« Reply #28 on: July 07, 2020, 09:20:19 AM »
I enjoyed it a great deal more than Skinner did but I can't argue with some of his criticisms, the exposition in places is a little clumsy and I felt occasionally it was just putting an encyclopedia entry to music, not often but occasionally.

In a 2 hour and 40 minute show where everything is either sung or rapped I think this is pretty inevitable. I thought it was amazing that so little of it felt like that to me

Re: Hamilton (on Disney+)
« Reply #29 on: July 07, 2020, 10:20:01 AM »
I enjoyed it a great deal more than Skinner did but I can't argue with some of his criticisms, the exposition in places is a little clumsy and I felt occasionally it was just putting an encyclopedia entry to music, not often but occasionally.

There is a fair bit of exposition, but you could say the same about the Rocky Horror Show. Trying to fit a person's life into a stage show is always going to be a hard squeeze. It does OK in racing through a lot of dry topics like banking reform and the electoral college (although stuff like Hamilton's betrayal of Burr doesn't seem well justified), but you have to wonder if it would really suffer with less of that.

The fact that it's very much conventional musical theatre with a bit of rapping, taking a very traditional form and doing something slightly different (and very well) excites a lot of people, but equally won't be for everyone. It's a bit pissy to criticise it for not being something else (live rap gig theatre cabaret with audience interaction and lasers). But while it's not particularly innovative, its success will hopefully cause Andrew Lloyd Webber to stage a citywide grime experience about psychic badgers rather than write more tedious shite of sub Puccini wittering.

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