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Right-wing comedians around the world?

Started by tribalfusion, July 06, 2020, 08:24:16 PM

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Quote from: TheBrownBottle on July 07, 2020, 01:38:36 PM
Trey Parker & Matt Stone are always the first that come to mind for me, given I couldn't disagree more with their politics but I've found their output (which leans heavily on their worldview) pretty much consistently funny for over two decades.
I find Team America a disgustingly pro-war, pro Bush/Blair movie, and I was shocked at the time how many people took it to be just an absurdist romp with no overall political message. I remember sitting in the cinema feeling a kind of terror at that repeated Cocks/Pussies/Assholes speech, thinking "My God, this is what a 21st century propaganda movie is going to look like". A militarist message dressed as anarchic, potty-mouthed nihilism.

The more openly anti-liberal stuff in South Park is a fair enough expression of Parker and Stone's beliefs, there's no dishonesty there. But Team America was something else, a big step towards the 4chan/dankmemes blend of right-wing opinion and crude humour that always claims to be just kidding even as it grows and grows in influence and power. The Triumph of the Will type movies of 2050 will be full of knob gags.

idunnosomename

Surely Team America sends up neocon intervention? I don't think it's very funny though

Do you reckon? I think I'd summarize the politics of that movie as more like:"The US army might seem absurd in it's gung-ho attitudes, but the truth is that the world is a dangerous place with evil-doers in it who must be stopped, and liberal namby-pambies who want to complain about the USA's actions are just privileged idiots who don't understand the real world, the USA must go out and stop the bad guys"

Bad Ambassador

Do you think Starship Troopers is about the threat of giant insects?

Quote from: Bad Ambassador on July 08, 2020, 02:56:57 PM
Do you think Starship Troopers is about the threat of giant insects?
You're proving my point! The Cocks/Pussies/Assholes speech expresses what Parker and Stone really belive, they've been explicit about this in interviews, but because they did it in a jokey way, people to this day maintain it's all clever satire and if you don't like it, you justdon'tget the joke, where's your bloody sense of humour, love?

.   Parker: [Laughs] The thing is, obviously, we're not setting out to make a movie going, Look, America, this is how you should run things, this is how it should be. Because then we'd be no better than the fucking actors we hate. But the only thing that we assert is that there's a difference between dicks and assholes. That's the biggest thing that we assert.

Stone: That's such a strong political statement.

Parker: And it really kinda is! Because that's the thing that we realized when we were making the movie. It was always the hardest thing. We wanted to deal with this emotion of being hated as an American. That was the thing that was intriguing to us, and having Gary (the main character) deal with that emotion. And so, him becoming ashamed to be a part of Team America and being ashamed of himself, he comes to realize that, just as he got his brother killed by gorillas -- he didn't kill his brother; he was a dick, he wasn't an asshole -- so too does America have this role in the world as a dick. Cops are dicks, you fucking hate cops, but you need 'em.

Thanks to all the assholes -- or criminals. Or in the case of the movie, terrorists.

Parker: Right. Because there are assholes -- terrorists -- you gotta have dicks -- people who hunt down terrorists. And I think that that is a pretty strong thing to assert, actually ... at least the pussies think so.

The pussies being the whiny liberals. But you obviously make fun of dicks -- or ugly Americans -- for the first half of the movie.

Stone: Well, it's just Gary coming to terms with the fact that it's an imperfect world, basically. And this is Gary going, "This is as much sense as I can make of it."

Parker: Dicks are bad, and it sucks to be a dick, but it's way worse to be an asshole, and because there are assholes, we need dicks. So shut the fuck up, all you pussies!

 

Bad Ambassador

I've always assumed they were taking the piss, rather than stating what they actually believe through the medium of marionette porn.

QuoteWhen I saw Condell in the list above, I thought, "That can't be the same bloke, surely?" I can't imagine that purple-faced YouTube bigot even cracking a joke, never mind doing a stand-up set - he seems like the most humourless cunt imaginable. What was his act like?

I almost hesitate to say this but actually quite good. There was a bit of the shock jock pre-fame Jack Dee aspect to him but he delivered the laughs enough to win Time Out's stand-up of the year back in the day. there are some clips of him on Youtube from the early '90s which, while not great, gives no clue to the angry, bitter little old bigot of today.

I do feel, however, that the comedian as political animal thing can be stretched too far in that I never met a male comic too radical to crawl over broken glass for a new knob gag. Hardly anyone really cared what party Morecambe & Wise or Tommy Cooper or Ken Dodd supported, we all probably assumed they either weren't interested or were rabidly Tory mainly because of income tax. It never stopped anyone from enjoying them.

alan nagsworth

Quote from: Bad Ambassador on July 08, 2020, 03:52:25 PM
I've always assumed they were taking the piss, rather than stating what they actually believe through the medium of marionette porn.

That's absolutely the way I interpreted it as well.

Quote from: Astronaut Omens on July 08, 2020, 01:48:26 PM
I find Team America a disgustingly pro-war, pro Bush/Blair movie, and I was shocked at the time how many people took it to be just an absurdist romp with no overall political message. I remember sitting in the cinema feeling a kind of terror at that repeated Cocks/Pussies/Assholes speech, thinking "My God, this is what a 21st century propaganda movie is going to look like". A militarist message dressed as anarchic, potty-mouthed nihilism.

Eh, still a better conservative comedy than An American Carol.

Considering one has a 2-minute "Michael Moore is fat!" joke and the other is 90 minutes of "Michael Moore is fat!" jokes.

Worth mentioning so that I can make a joke about it that Henning Wehn's opinion about eating meat and eggs comes from a place of genuine veganism. He goes on to express misgivings about keeping pets and buying pet food made from other animals. That could be a can of worms.

Surprised nobody brought up Mike Nelson of MST3K/Rifftrax, though many people are only now discovering that he's right-wing because of his (now severed) connection with right-wing podcast Audio Mullet. But as funny conservatives go, he's got to be one of the better ones.

Quote from: Astronaut Omens on July 08, 2020, 01:48:26 PM
I find Team America a disgustingly pro-war, pro Bush/Blair movie, and I was shocked at the time how many people took it to be just an absurdist romp with no overall political message. I remember sitting in the cinema feeling a kind of terror at that repeated Cocks/Pussies/Assholes speech, thinking "My God, this is what a 21st century propaganda movie is going to look like". A militarist message dressed as anarchic, potty-mouthed nihilism.

I brought a lot of goodwill to Team America at the time and tried very hard to like it, but it was so disheartening. There were precious few people in popular media speaking out against the war, and Michael Moore had really bungled it with Fahrenheit 911. It would've been amazing to have a major release that came out against the war and said that Michael Moore was shit.

Retinend

Isn't it an anti-war film? It's a satire of American militarism, although I'm open to the idea that it's a bit complicated in its intentions. It definitely didn't seem to glorify "our troops." Maybe I need to watch it again, though; it's been years.

Cold Meat Platter

The fucking "durka durka" stuff is awful no matter their opaque intentions. Wankers who whatever satire is in there is lost on post that under asian food recipes on youtube.

chveik

as good as they can be, you can't expect the South Park lads to not believe in American exceptionalism.

SavageHedgehog

Mike Judge is also on the Libertarian axis, although his work mostly doesn't touch on politics (The Goode Family and to a lesser extent Idiocracy being exceptions)

Quote from: Retinend on July 09, 2020, 02:31:41 PM
Isn't it an anti-war film? It's a satire of American militarism, although I'm open to the idea that it's a bit complicated in its intentions. It definitely didn't seem to glorify "our troops." Maybe I need to watch it again, though; it's been years.

It does send up American militarism, but I wouldn't call it anti-war. It's pretty centrist, much like the I'm a Little Bit Country episode of South Park.

Bush era humor had the same problems Trump era humor has now. Liberals would attack Bush for saying moronic things instead of focusing on his terrible policies, and Trey & Matt offered an "alternative" to this by...mostly not making fun of Bush at all. I talked myself into thinking it was refreshing at the time, because I was already pretty fed up with liberal hypocrisy, but I'm less forgiving nowadays. South Park was funny but spineless.

I fail to see how a film featuring puppets doing scat porn can seriously be viewed as neoliberal propaganda.

MortSahlFan

Quote from: KennyMonster on July 08, 2020, 08:00:06 AM
He also thinks America has a right to interfere with democratically elected governments that pose him no threat if they happen to be nearby.

Right wing cunt.
Yeah, he's a right-winged cunt... I saw him live - he wasn't funny, either. All he did was cry like "a whiny little bitch"

alan nagsworth

Quote from: Cold Meat Platter on July 09, 2020, 02:39:32 PM
The fucking "durka durka" stuff is awful no matter their opaque intentions. Wankers who whatever satire is in there is lost on post that under asian food recipes on youtube.

Awful In that it's racist, or awful in that it's a shit joke?

Personally I don't think it's the former. It's certainly an ill-conceived joke, but (similar to Borat, which also failed to reach the majority of its adoring audience beyond complete face value) I've always thought it was poking fun at how the rest of the world sees America, much like the rest of the film. So it's more like watching the film through the eyes of someone who thinks America is populated mostly by flag-waving militants who see any other overseas militance as one big vague threat that they would rather stamp out than bother to learn anything about.

But then Parker and Stone are American and so they understand a lot of America really is like that and so it sort of comes full circle in its intentions. I guess it is a bit messy, but I try to think of it as a film made by Parker and Stone "in character", not the people themselves or their actual beliefs.

thenoise

Quote from: Autopsy Turvey on July 07, 2020, 01:44:04 PM
Comics often seem to come straight out of a cosseted bohemian university lifestyle, clutching a useless low-grade arts degree, and go straight into getting paid to piss about, remaining in many ways a child, with the child's instinct to flick the Vs behind the parent/teacher's back, few proper work or life experiences and a desperation for the approval of strangers to fulfil some need for love and attention that they didn't get as children. It is an illogical, unstable choice of career, demanding a special dysfunctional blend of insecurity and narcissism.

It is interesting that this 'archetypal Tory' now sounds so much like the archetypal middle class lefty!

I agree, and I dont think comedians tend to be 'archetypal middle class lefties' either. You certainly dont seem to be describing an archetypal middle class lefty in the first half of your post either, so I'm not quite sure whether you have a coherent point here.

Quote from: alan nagsworth on July 09, 2020, 04:27:54 PM
Awful In that it's racist, or awful in that it's a shit joke?

Personally I don't think it's the former. It's certainly an ill-conceived joke, but (similar to Borat, which also failed to reach the majority of its adoring audience beyond complete face value) I've always thought it was poking fun at how the rest of the world sees America, much like the rest of the film.

This is the sort of generous reading I used to extend to their stuff all the time. I remember when they did the Starbucks episode in the late 90s, which ends with them asserting that Starbucks earned its status by having the best product, I assumed they were being ironic. Over time I realized they really do seem to at least partly believe that. I'm not saying I assume the worst of them now, but I'm no longer as charitable when it comes to the irony defense.

alan nagsworth

I can't really comment with that wealth of knowledge unfortunately as I've not watched very much South Park!

Retinend

Quote from: SavageHedgehog on July 09, 2020, 03:29:28 PM
Mike Judge is also on the Libertarian axis, although his work mostly doesn't touch on politics (The Goode Family and to a lesser extent Idiocracy being exceptions)

Just watched episode 1 of King of the Hill. Right from the off it's sticking it to those pencil-pushers with sociology degrees. More generally, Judge does have a prejudice somewhat right-wing in flavour, re the arrogance of effete, nominally elitist, academics.

Doesn't stop me from loving KoTH, though.

bgmnts


Quote from: TheRitzBrothers on July 09, 2020, 03:56:12 PM
I fail to see how a film featuring puppets doing scat porn can seriously be viewed as neoliberal propaganda.

Why? Why assume something couldn't have a right-wing agenda, just because it's a bit sweary and silly? Why is there is assumption that all comedians, if they're good enough, MUST be ironic and subversive and against the status quo, even when they make a film that make jokes about actors being fags and Asians mispronouncing their 'L's and 'R's?

Lots of hawkish magazines in America liked it for hawkish reasons. look at how it was praised by the New York Times , which had done so much to make the case for war,  precisely for its support for the troops. (note Onion-esque headline)
https://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/15/movies/moral-guidance-from-class-clowns.html

Goofy as they are, the members of "Team America" are treated, in the end, with affection, even respect, which is part of the film's political gist. When Team America blows things up in other countries, they do it by accident, in the course of their sloppy but zealous fight against the people who want to do it on purpose. This is not a trivial moral distinction, and it is one the film hangs onto in impressive earnest.

alan nagsworth

Quote from: Astronaut Omens on July 09, 2020, 06:11:32 PM
Why? Why assume something couldn't have a right-wing agenda, just because it's a bit sweary and silly? Why is there is assumption that all comedians, if they're good enough, MUST be ironic and subversive and against the status quo, even when they make a film that make jokes about actors being fags and Asians mispronouncing their 'L's and 'R's?

Honestly I find it stranger that you would suspect they do have a right-wing agenda.

That review is ludicrous. Just because the writer admits it's "critic-proof" and acknowledges its meta style of humour, that doesn't mean they get it.

QuoteThe obscene patriotic ditty that is the Team America theme song might be hyperbolic (and impossible to stop singing), but it is not sarcastic.

Yeah, you keep telling yourself that.

QuoteBecause of its graphic (though metaphorical) discussion of human anatomy, I can't quote any of the speech here, but it is one of the more cogent -- and, dare I say it, more nuanced -- defenses of American military power that I have heard recently.

Mate. The theme song and the "dicks fuck pussies" speech aren't funny because Stone and Parker think they're true. They're funny because it's completely fucking dumb and I daresay they knew that they would receive precisely these critical responses. Americans absolutely lap this shit up.

Pink Gregory

Quote from: Retinend on July 09, 2020, 05:57:10 PM
Just watched episode 1 of King of the Hill. Right from the off it's sticking it to those pencil-pushers with sociology degrees. More generally, Judge does have a prejudice somewhat right-wing in flavour, re the arrogance of effete, nominally elitist, academics.

Doesn't stop me from loving KoTH, though.

I don't know if that's necessarily Judge himself dictating that, but it's the angle that the show comes from.  Also considering that it's a pilot with the job of setting up Hank Hill as a well meaning small-town Texas conservative with very human foibles.

It's not as if looking down on educated liberal city types is the heart of the show.

Pink Gregory

Quote from: Smeraldina Rima on July 09, 2020, 12:31:43 PM
Worth mentioning so that I can make a joke about it that Henning Wehn's opinion about eating meat and eggs comes from a place of genuine veganism. He goes on to express misgivings about keeping pets and buying pet food made from other animals. That could be a can of worms.

As a vegan with cats, can't disagree with that. 

Is Henning one of ours then? 

tribalfusion

Quote from: Astronaut Omens on July 09, 2020, 06:11:32 PM
Why? Why assume something couldn't have a right-wing agenda, just because it's a bit sweary and silly? Why is there is assumption that all comedians, if they're good enough, MUST be ironic and subversive and against the status quo, even when they make a film that make jokes about actors being fags and Asians mispronouncing their 'L's and 'R's?

Lots of hawkish magazines in America liked it for hawkish reasons. look at how it was praised by the New York Times , which had done so much to make the case for war,  precisely for its support for the troops. (note Onion-esque headline)
https://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/15/movies/moral-guidance-from-class-clowns.html

Goofy as they are, the members of "Team America" are treated, in the end, with affection, even respect, which is part of the film's political gist. When Team America blows things up in other countries, they do it by accident, in the course of their sloppy but zealous fight against the people who want to do it on purpose. This is not a trivial moral distinction, and it is one the film hangs onto in impressive earnest.


Team America and the South Park goons are on the right and it's somewhat surprising to me that people are even debating this. I didn't mention them as they aren't doing stand-up but they clearly are far more upset by even mildly left initiatives and policies than they are by the murder of thousands of innocents by their 'home team.'

Matt Stone said: "I hate conservatives, but I really fucking hate liberals." He hates social conservatism in certain areas but in just about every other regard, he's a typical American right winger.

"headlining at a Reason magazine [far right libertarian journal] conference in Amsterdam, the libertarian version of Davos. Stone and Parker said that if you had to put a label on them, they were libertarian"

"Stone and Parker told me they'd previously seen the G.O.P. as a relief from the big-government liberals, particularly the ones preaching to America from Hollywood. "We see these people lying, cheating, whoring," Stone said. "They're our friends, but seriously, they're not people you want to listen to."