Topic: Let's speculate on what crime my employee committed

[Non Stop Dancer]

I'm afraid they did a study and found it is 100%.

Fucksake.

[icehaven]

Nonce. Teenagers. Third custodial sentence and not likely to see the outside world this side of 2030. Of all the mad shit to happen this year, this is by far the maddest. Just can't believe he's capable of it.

I may have mentioned earlier in the thread but I work in a clink and have a fair amount of experience working with sex offenders, and it's astonishing how consistently normal they can be, but then being extremely manipulative and living behind a facade is par for the course for them. It's the ones that don't get caught that are even more worrying

[Wonderful Butternut]

I'm afraid they did a study and found it is 100%.

If you define a child as anyone under 30.

[Dex Sawash]

What's the margin for error?

9 years

[bgmnts]

Nonce. Teenagers. Third custodial sentence and not likely to see the outside world this side of 2030. Of all the mad shit to happen this year, this is by far the maddest. Just can't believe he's capable of it.

Why didn't you ask whether he was a nonce during the interview stage?

[Better Midlands]

I'm afraid they did a study and found it is 100%.

Yeah, but that study was done in the breakcore room at Bangface.

[Non Stop Dancer]

Why didn't you ask whether he was a nonce during the interview stage?

Look, I just bloody well forgot, OK? I went through all the other types of crimes and he confirmed he was not guilty of them, so I just forgot. Satisfied?

[bgmnts]

You weren't at all suspicious that one of his references was called Peter File?

[Blue Jam]

I may have mentioned earlier in the thread but I work in a clink and have a fair amount of experience working with sex offenders, and it's astonishing how consistently normal they can be, but then being extremely manipulative and living behind a facade is par for the course for them. It's the ones that don't get caught that are even more worrying

I once read about a study for which the researcher had interviewed rapists and pretty much all of them had some excuse for why what they did didn't really count as rape, even though when asked to describe what they had done they described having sex with someone without their consent, ie, the legal definition of rape:

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/30/health/men-rape-sexual-assault.html

There's also this study of rapists convicted in India and there seems to be a pattern here:

https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2017/12/16/570827107/in-interviews-with-122-rapists-student-pursues-not-so-simple-question-why?t=1608668686031

Ditto for this one where the participants were serving sentences for rape in a Virginia prison:

https://www.ncjrs.gov/App/publications/abstract.aspx?ID=143963

It looks like a lot of sex offenders somehow convince themselves that what they do is normal and justified and every rational person should understand, or secretly agrees that it's really not as bad or as deserving of punishment as various legal systems make it out to be. Something comparable to the whole "I'm just saying what we're all thinking" mentality, but with the idea that all men would rape if they thought they could get away with it. From that New York Times article:

Most subjects in these studies freely acknowledge nonconsensual sex — but that does not mean they consider it real rape. Researchers encounter this contradiction again and again.

Asked “if they had penetrated against their consent,” said Dr. Koss, the subject will say yes. Asked if he did “something like rape,” the answer is almost always no.

Studies of incarcerated rapists — even men who admit to keeping sex slaves in conflict zones — find a similar disconnect. It’s not that they deny sexual assault happens; it’s just that the crime is committed by the monster over there.

And this is not a sign that the respondents are psychopaths, said Dr. Hamby, the journal editor. It’s a sign that they are human. “No one thinks they are a bad guy,” she said.

There seems to be this mentality that "rapist" is a strong word, a word for men who jump out of the bushes with a knife, not for men who once found themselves a bit horny while a friend was passed out at a party. I think there is a similar thing with child sex offenders, with some evidence from similar research based on interviews where offenders try and justify their crimes with statements like "she was almost legal", "at least it wasn't a ten-year-old", "at least it wasn't a baby" etc.

Could it be possible that these people seem normal because they've convinced themselves they are normal, and it's the people condemning them who are the weird ones? Like the men who think every man would secretly love to have sex with a teenage girl and those who don't are just lying to themselves?

You also see a bit of this in btl comments under news articles- "if there's grass on the pitch", "she knew what she was doing", "this would have been legal in France" etc, not to mention those creeps who feel compelled to post "I think you'll find he's not a paedophile but an ephebophile, actually" when the victim was over a certain age. It makes me wonder how prevalent this mentality really is, and what percentage of the population are a bit noncey or rapey.

I've also seen it argued that rape should be a crime classified by degrees of severity, like murder is in the US, but I think that's a terrible idea that would just be abused by rapists and their lawyers.

Bit of a rambly post there, sorry. Anyone got any more coherent thoughts?

[monkfromhavana]

What's the margin for error?

0.1%

[Fambo Number Mive]

I once read about a study for which the researcher had interviewed rapists and pretty much all of them had some excuse for why what they did didn't really count as rape, even though when asked to describe what they had done they described having sex with someone without their consent, ie, the legal definition of rape:

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/30/health/men-rape-sexual-assault.html

There's also this study of rapists convicted in India and there seems to be a pattern here:

https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2017/12/16/570827107/in-interviews-with-122-rapists-student-pursues-not-so-simple-question-why?t=1608668686031

Ditto for this one where the participants were serving sentences for rape in a Virginia prison:

https://www.ncjrs.gov/App/publications/abstract.aspx?ID=143963

It looks like a lot of sex offenders somehow convince themselves that what they do is normal and justified and every rational person should understand, or secretly agrees that it's really not as bad or as deserving of punishment as various legal systems make it out to be. Something comparable to the whole "I'm just saying what we're all thinking" mentality, but with the idea that all men would rape if they thought they could get away with it. From that New York Times article:

There seems to be this mentality that "rapist" is a strong word, a word for men who jump out of the bushes with a knife, not for men who once found themselves a bit horny while a friend was passed out at a party. I think there is a similar thing with child sex offenders, with some evidence from similar research based on interviews where offenders try and justify their crimes with statements like "she was almost legal", "at least it wasn't a ten-year-old", "at least it wasn't a baby" etc.

Could it be possible that these people seem normal because they've convinced themselves they are normal, and it's the people condemning them who are the weird ones? Like the men who think every man would secretly love to have sex with a teenage girl and those who don't are just lying to themselves?

You also see a bit of this in btl comments under news articles- "if there's grass on the pitch", "she knew what she was doing", "this would have been legal in France" etc, not to mention those creeps who feel compelled to post "I think you'll find he's not a paedophile but an ephebophile, actually" when the victim was over a certain age. It makes me wonder how prevalent this mentality really is, and what percentage of the population are a bit noncey or rapey.

I've also seen it argued that rape should be a crime classified by degrees of severity, like murder is in the US, but I think that's a terrible idea that would just be abused by rapists and their lawyers.

Bit of a rambly post there, sorry. Anyone got any more coherent thoughts?

I was thinking that another example of what you mention in btl comments is people who seem to think child abuse is ok if the abuser is a female and the victim is a boy. Child abuse is child abuse no matter the gender of the abuser or the victim.

[Blue Jam]

I was thinking that another example of what you mention in btl comments is people who seem to think child abuse is ok if the abuser is a female and the victim is a boy. Child abuse is child abuse no matter the gender of the abuser or the victim.

I think the pendulum has swung the other way a bit now, with people calling out any comments along the lines of "I wish my teacher was this fit and she had abused me at school, lucky boy, whuuuuaaaay go on my son" and raging at women who get lenient sentences for abusing boys, while there seems to be more victim-blaming where a male teacher abused a female pupil.

It is a horrible trope that refuses to die though. And in all cases there are people who seem unable to understand that age of consent laws exist partly to protect children from themselves. Just because pubescent teenagers are horned up and hormonal and might want to have sex doesn't mean that an adult should fulfil that desire, or that it wouldn't really be abuse. A teenage boy might consider himself lucky to be abused by a good-looking teacher but might then grow up to realise how fucked up it all was.

[touchingcloth]

I think the pendulum has swung the other way a bit now, with people calling out any comments along the lines of "I wish my teacher was this fit and she had abused me at school, lucky boy, whuuuuaaaay go on my son" and raging at women who get lenient sentences for abusing boys, while there seems to be more victim-blaming where a male teacher abused a female pupil.

It is a horrible trope that refuses to die though. And in all cases there are people who seem unable to understand that age of consent laws exist partly to protect children from themselves. Just because pubescent teenagers are horned up and hormonal and might want to have sex doesn't mean that an adult should fulfil that desire, or that it wouldn't really be abuse. A teenage boy might consider himself lucky to be abused by a good-looking teacher but might then grow up to realise how fucked up it all was.

I think there’s a mental disconnect have between age of consent and age of fertility. I don’t think in purely evolutionary terms there’s anything pathological about being attracted to people who have just reached puberty, but we’ve long since passed the stage as a species where sex is something which takes place on those purely evolutionary terms without any application of reason. As a crude analogy, just because seven year olds can climb up chimneys that doesn’t mean we should think about changing labour laws to let people employee them as sweeps.

[Uncle TechTip]

Something similar happened at our place just the other month, someone in another team - one day we hear he won't be working with us on this thing in a meeting, and his out of office says abruptly he's not here any more. Rumours fly that the police have his works laptop and phone. But then, a few weeks later, we hear he's back at work - however he is not allowed to use a computer. Which, working in IT, would seem to be difficult. I think he's visiting sites and fixing printers. No idea if it's employer or police enforcing this rule. No idea why - for once that seems to be not widely known as gossip.

In fact, it also happened a couple of years ago but much more suddenly - was working with a payroll chief who liked to dress smart, had a nice car. Young and unattached, we thought. He'd been having odd days away then one day announced to his team he's off on a sudden two week holiday abroad. We get a week or so into the holiday, then a colleague ushers me over and says "look at this" - shows me a news article, Man jailed for payroll scam - I'm nodding, going 'ok, and...?'. He scrolls down with brilliant timing to reveal our holidaying workmate, slowly emerging from the bottom of the page, until fully revealed, in a classic police mugshot. All the time he'd been sitting in a trial and hoping it would end well.

[Fambo Number Mive]

Nonce. Teenagers. Third custodial sentence and not likely to see the outside world this side of 2030. Of all the mad shit to happen this year, this is by far the maddest. Just can't believe he's capable of it.

If he ever does get out, I wonder if he will try to get into the workplace again and ask you for a reference.

"He left due to being found guilty of being a small bean regarder, an unabummer, a nut administrator"

[icehaven]

If he ever does get out, I wonder if he will try to get into the workplace again and ask you for a reference.

"He left due to being found guilty of being a small bean regarder, an unabummer, a nut administrator"

An officer at my work was fired for having a relationship with a serving prisoner and smuggling in sim cards for him. A few weeks later she emailed her former boss and another colleague to ask for references. I've no idea what she thought they were going to say but I don't think she'd have liked it.

[Cuellar]

not likely to see the outside world this side of 2030

Who is!!

[rack and peanut]

Look, I just bloody well forgot, OK? I went through all the other types of crimes and he confirmed he was not guilty of them, so I just forgot. Satisfied?

You've got to admit a name like Nonce Top Dancer is going to attract people like this.

[Blinder Data]

Nonce. Teenagers. Third custodial sentence and not likely to see the outside world this side of 2030. Of all the mad shit to happen this year, this is by far the maddest. Just can't believe he's capable of it.

would it be too much to ask you for a news article/court report on the guy? happy to receive as PM.

[Johnny Yesno]

You probably did it and stitched him up.

covid has meant that we've already made one person redundant and his role would likely have gone that way as well.

Aaahhh. Say no more. *Taps side of nose*

[petrilTanaka]

An officer at my work was fired for having a relationship with a serving prisoner and smuggling in sim cards for him. A few weeks later she emailed her former boss and another colleague to ask for references. I've no idea what she thought they were going to say but I don't think she'd have liked it.

probably a mandatory requirement for the new job. and there's legal limits on what can be put in these references. It'll mostly confirm what her job title was, the main responsibilities and when she was there. maybe a very tactful hint at dismissal

[The Lurker]

In fact, it also happened a couple of years ago but much more suddenly - was working with a payroll chief who liked to dress smart, had a nice car. Young and unattached, we thought. He'd been having odd days away then one day announced to his team he's off on a sudden two week holiday abroad. We get a week or so into the holiday, then a colleague ushers me over and says "look at this" - shows me a news article, Man jailed for payroll scam - I'm nodding, going 'ok, and...?'. He scrolls down with brilliant timing to reveal our holidaying workmate, slowly emerging from the bottom of the page, until fully revealed, in a classic police mugshot. All the time he'd been sitting in a trial and hoping it would end well.

Fair play, you have to respect that hustle

[Uncle TechTip]

Should have been clear, it was at his previous employer. Seemed like he'd left and tried to make a new start. But nobody at our place had any clue what was happening until that brilliant scroll of the wheel.

[Voltan (Man of Steel)]

The chap whose job I took over many years ago had apparently told his manager that he needed to take a few days off at short notice to look after an ill relative. A week or two later a family member contacted the manager to say that he’d in fact been sentenced to six months for fraud so wouldn’t be returning.

Fast forward five years and I was carrying out a food hygiene inspection in a care home and the owner introduced himself. He said he used to work in environmental health but had “made a couple of mistakes” and decided to leave. He skipped over the prison bit but confirmed he was the same person. As I was leaving I had to squeeze past his £120,000+ Bentley to get into my Nissan Sunny.

[timebug]

Bloke who worked with a good friend of mine suddenly had a haircut. He had always had a long pony tail,and one day he appeared with a 'short back and sides'. None of his colleagues knew or suspected anything. Next thing, it appears he is up in court for owning thousands of images of child porn,and is known in his local area as a potenial paedophile. He got a serious jail sentence, and none of his colleagues had suspected anything for the three years previous, when he had worked alongside them.
The haircut,along with an unexpected suit and tie,was of course on the suggestion of his brief, to make him appear more 'respectable' for his court appearance.
I had met him twice and he seemed like a normal decent bloke. Very well read and an interesting talker on a wide range of topics.
Everyone was surprised at his crime(s) but as usual, do we expect villains to wear a hat saying 'evil fucker' or what?

[Junket Pumper]

sick fuck. We had a nonce in my social circle getting exposed and jailed for 13 years earlier this year. He would encourage teenagers to send him modelling pictures on social media and then blackmail them so they would send more obscene pictures to him.

I think sextortion is one of the fastest growing, and terrifying crimes imaginable. There was a recent case in America where the perp was sentenced to 50 years, and one about 5 years ago where the cunt got a 105 year sentence.

A British man named David Wilson recently plead guilty to this and awaits sentencing, the NCA said he contacted over 5 thousand kids and had hundreds of victims who actually sent pictures, and he even forced some to abuse their younger siblings.  He was only caught because Facebook's algorithm somehow spotted his noncing and they informed the police who tracked him down. Worryingly Facebook are planning on encrypting their messenger service, meaning such crimes might never be detected.

I think anyone with young kids should be speaking to them about such dangers, though many adults can be victims too.

[Fambo Number Mive]

Nonce. Teenagers. Third custodial sentence and not likely to see the outside world this side of 2030. Of all the mad shit to happen this year, this is by far the maddest. Just can't believe he's capable of it.

Must be very odd for the rest of your team as well. Given the nature of his crimes, I presume none of you will keep in touch with him/visit him etc.

I also assume he went straight from court to prison. Do prisons do anything for Christmas e.g. a special lunch? Or is it the same as every other day inside?

I understand the reason for nonce wings, so the other prisoners don't attack them, but I do wonder if it allows sex offenders to learn from each other and share sickening advice. I don't know what the alternative is though, solitary 23 hours a day? They'd be killing each other during the exercise hour.

[Junket Pumper]

I think solitary is illegal in the UK apart from exceptional circumstances, it would be very expensive as it would double the amount of cells needed. It's true that nonces do swap stories and tips about crimes but I'm pretty sure all prisoners do that.

Regarding nonce wings one of the worst must be the food. You either eat standard meals and risk consuming broken glass, piss, and or shit or subside on anything that can't be contaminated by other inmates, like hard boiled eggs.

[icehaven]

I also assume he went straight from court to prison. Do prisons do anything for Christmas e.g. a special lunch? Or is it the same as every other day inside?

At my work there is a Christmas dinner but it's not great, imagine a cheap school dinner version of Christmas dinner. There's not much else different from other days, and obviously it varies between prisons but it can mean even more bang up than usual as there's invariably less staff around, which this year is even worse than usual as a lot of prisons have been on near 23 hours since March already because of Covid.

I understand the reason for nonce wings, so the other prisoners don't attack them, but I do wonder if it allows sex offenders to learn from each other and share sickening advice.

Sadly this is exactly the case. As you went on to say though the alternative is either permanent solitary, which is both unfeasible logistically and also not in line with what's considered humane, or putting them with the general population, which would basically be the same.

[chveik]

prison overcrowding might be partly responsible for that state of affair.