Author Topic: Let's speculate on what crime my employee committed  (Read 14055 times)

Re: Let's speculate on what crime my employee committed
« Reply #60 on: July 10, 2020, 11:25:43 AM »
If you're English you're already in a jail, in this country.

New page (same old story)

Non Stop Dancer

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Re: Let's speculate on what crime my employee committed
« Reply #61 on: July 10, 2020, 01:24:54 PM »
Quick update. Family do know what it is but aren't saying what. Next step is crown court a month from now. It's something sexual isn't it.

I suspect that another employee probably knows more than we do due to a mutual acquaintance and hope they'll spill the beans. If they don't, does anyone know where I stand legally regarding telling the rest of the team what I know, as it's going to be a bit bloody odd when he's just not there anymore.

Gurke and Hare

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Re: Let's speculate on what crime my employee committed
« Reply #62 on: July 10, 2020, 01:33:11 PM »
I'd just send a very mundane "X is no longer with the company. If you have any questions on anything he was working on, they should be referred to Y." email. If you say the wrong thing, it could possible have repercussions outside your workplace given that he's been charged.

But I'm not a lawyer, you should probably speak to one of those. I'm assuming it's too small a business to have an actual HR department?

PlanktonSideburns

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Re: Let's speculate on what crime my employee committed
« Reply #63 on: July 10, 2020, 01:41:01 PM »
just show them this thread, tell them 'your top team are on it' and 'this is as much as anyone can know at this time'

Re: Let's speculate on what crime my employee committed
« Reply #64 on: July 10, 2020, 02:05:02 PM »
Just a quick one as someone who has a background in employment relations.

If he's still meant to be at work (and assuming you are in the UK), so no furlough etc., you might want to start thinking about a procedure to get him dealt with/off the books.

You can reasonably expect him to report in to confirm he's not coming into work himself - I gather so far he hasn't made contact. You can pull him in to explain why he failed to turn in to work (an investigation which might turn into a disciplinary pending the results of the investigation).

If it seems serious, you might have a decision to make, and you can potentially dismiss before the crown court appearance depending on the nature of the charge and the nature of your business - criminal and employment law are two separate spheres, and a 'not guilty' doesn't necessarily mean he keeps his job.

The first step is probably to make contact to ask him what has happened, and to say that you've heard from his family there is a crown court appearance scheduled.

Regarding the rest of the team, you might want to say he has failed to turn in to work, and has not explained why. His family called in, but you have yet to make contact with him. The standard HR approach in this instance is to call the guy and ask why he hasn't phoned in and 'to check he's ok'. Failing to report absence usually triggers an investigation, and you can tell him you're aware he's going to the crown court. WIth any luck he'll fess up to you and/or just quit (assuming it's bad bad shit involving da kidz). If it's something serious but where you're willing to continue his employment, you might want to progress to disciplinary on the grounds of not reporting absence and give a warning with one eye on his court date.

The fact his family have reported an arrest rather than making up something about having the shits suggests it might well be a bad one though.

PM me if you want a bit of advice by all means, but the question you need to ask yourself is what crimes could he be accused of where you are willing for him to keep his job (assuming no prison).


Ambient Sheep

  • I owe lots of people PMs, sorry. Hopefully soon...
Re: Let's speculate on what crime my employee committed
« Reply #65 on: July 10, 2020, 02:14:15 PM »
Quick update. Family do know what it is but aren't saying what. Next step is crown court a month from now. It's something sexual isn't it.

Sounds like it. :-/

Then again, it sounds like he's still remanded in custard, which I don't think would be the case for indecent images.  So maybe it's encro-drug crimes after all, especially as you said he had a Class A past.  Either that or he went on a rape rampage or something.

(Because if he's not on remand, why aren't you getting sheepish phone calls from him himself, rather than his family?)

Sebastian Cobb

  • bad opinion haver
Re: Let's speculate on what crime my employee committed
« Reply #66 on: July 10, 2020, 02:22:44 PM »
Just a quick one as someone who has a background in employment relations.

If he's still meant to be at work (and assuming you are in the UK), so no furlough etc., you might want to start thinking about a procedure to get him dealt with/off the books.

You can reasonably expect him to report in to confirm he's not coming into work himself - I gather so far he hasn't made contact. You can pull him in to explain why he failed to turn in to work (an investigation which might turn into a disciplinary pending the results of the investigation).

If it seems serious, you might have a decision to make, and you can potentially dismiss before the crown court appearance depending on the nature of the charge and the nature of your business - criminal and employment law are two separate spheres, and a 'not guilty' doesn't necessarily mean he keeps his job.

The first step is probably to make contact to ask him what has happened, and to say that you've heard from his family there is a crown court appearance scheduled.

Regarding the rest of the team, you might want to say he has failed to turn in to work, and has not explained why. His family called in, but you have yet to make contact with him. The standard HR approach in this instance is to call the guy and ask why he hasn't phoned in and 'to check he's ok'. Failing to report absence usually triggers an investigation, and you can tell him you're aware he's going to the crown court. WIth any luck he'll fess up to you and/or just quit (assuming it's bad bad shit involving da kidz). If it's something serious but where you're willing to continue his employment, you might want to progress to disciplinary on the grounds of not reporting absence and give a warning with one eye on his court date.

The fact his family have reported an arrest rather than making up something about having the shits suggests it might well be a bad one though.

PM me if you want a bit of advice by all means, but the question you need to ask yourself is what crimes could he be accused of where you are willing for him to keep his job (assuming no prison).

Don't kick a man when he's down ffs.

Re: Let's speculate on what crime my employee committed
« Reply #67 on: July 10, 2020, 02:31:00 PM »
Don't kick a man when he's down ffs.

If it's a child porn/abuse arrest...

Like I said, if it's something he can keep his job over then they can manage that too. The first step is fact finding. The fact it's crown court suggests serious though. The alternative is our poster here paying the geezer's wages while allowing him to be off from work and not knowing why. He's well within his rights to phone up and ask what's going on.

Non Stop Dancer

  • Nice apple tart
Re: Let's speculate on what crime my employee committed
« Reply #68 on: July 10, 2020, 03:25:38 PM »
Sorry, I wasn't clear. He is in custody until his court date. Really hoping something comes out in the local press so we can just be a bit more open about it with staff. Mercifully they're furloughed atm but in a week or two his absence will be obvious.

earl_sleek

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Re: Let's speculate on what crime my employee committed
« Reply #69 on: July 10, 2020, 03:34:01 PM »
TBH if this happened to one of my employees I'd be making HR deal with as much of it as possible.

Ambient Sheep

  • I owe lots of people PMs, sorry. Hopefully soon...
Re: Let's speculate on what crime my employee committed
« Reply #70 on: July 10, 2020, 03:35:00 PM »
If he was furloughed, then I'm surprised his family even let you know last week when it was "merely" an arrest, and that they didn't wait until this week when he was charged and remanded.

(Or is it that he wasn't furloughed, but the rest of your staff are?)

Re: Let's speculate on what crime my employee committed
« Reply #71 on: July 10, 2020, 03:43:05 PM »
Is he salaried?

You might want to call ACAS for the finer points, but surely if he's still in custody it means he's likely to receive a custodial sentence, in which case you are going to end up sacking him anyway.

If this is your business, the common sense move is to get this boxed off ASAP. It's up to you whether you get him off the payroll while furloughed, but if the furlough is likely to come to an end, you do not want to be paying him. Usually someone failing to turn into work for a few weeks is sufficient grounds to assume they're not coming back. There are procedures and so on, but you not following them isn't likely to be an issue. I can talk you through the procedures if you want, but it's mostly irrelevant.

Given you know he's in custody and have heard it from the family, there's no harm in you telling the rest of the employees. It's up to you really, but I can see why you'd rather be forearmed with the details.

PlanktonSideburns

  • Image ©Blodjenks-Yutani
Re: Let's speculate on what crime my employee committed
« Reply #72 on: July 10, 2020, 04:07:32 PM »
Can't you go see him  in one of those rooms with soundproof glass and you talk through a phone, and then he starts shouting at you and then the screws drag him away, him all screaming at you?

Don't you want to do that?

icehaven

  • WORLD'S BIGGEST RIP OFF: $100 PER PERSON
Re: Let's speculate on what crime my employee committed
« Reply #73 on: July 10, 2020, 04:19:32 PM »
Really hoping something comes out in the local press so we can just be a bit more open about it with staff.

Have you tried googling him?
Also I'd be careful how much you tell the other employees, as little as possible seems like the safest option (also not that difficult given you don't know all that much anyway.) Just something like he won't be in work for the forseeable future and that's all the info you currently have. I certainly wouldn't tell them he's been arrested and is in jail as chances are they already know anyway (you said he shares an acquaintance with another employee? And people talk), and it's better that it didn't come from you in any 'official' capacity just in case there's some confidentiality issues later on, particularly if he's found not guilty.

Ambient Sheep

  • I owe lots of people PMs, sorry. Hopefully soon...
Re: Let's speculate on what crime my employee committed
« Reply #74 on: July 10, 2020, 05:13:42 PM »
I'd agree with that.

Re: Let's speculate on what crime my employee committed
« Reply #75 on: July 10, 2020, 05:23:35 PM »
Get yourself arrested so you can be his celly, he'll fess up

Endicott

  • I've done no research
Re: Let's speculate on what crime my employee committed
« Reply #76 on: July 10, 2020, 06:35:20 PM »
Then again, it sounds like he's still remanded in custard, which I don't think would be the case for indecent images.

I agree. You could be released on bail with a tag for that, and even for some more serious charges. With strict bail conditions about not going anywhere near your alleged victims of course.

If he's still in custody, there's a chance that either he hasn't had the bail hearing yet (it can take a few weeks to get to this point), or that he has but bail is denied because he's a flight risk. Or it's a serious violent offence, or summink.

Sebastian Cobb

  • bad opinion haver
Re: Let's speculate on what crime my employee committed
« Reply #77 on: July 10, 2020, 06:41:16 PM »
If it's a child porn/abuse arrest...

Like I said, if it's something he can keep his job over then they can manage that too. The first step is fact finding. The fact it's crown court suggests serious though. The alternative is our poster here paying the geezer's wages while allowing him to be off from work and not knowing why. He's well within his rights to phone up and ask what's going on.

Shouldn't matter really. In a civilised society he would be suspended on pay (because I can imagine it'd be grim for both him and colleagues) until the verdict at which point they can either be found guilty or reinstated. Paid for by the state.

imitationleather

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Re: Let's speculate on what crime my employee committed
« Reply #78 on: July 10, 2020, 06:41:56 PM »
From having watched every episode of 24 Hours in Police Custody it sounds to me like he's killed someone or got found with a dungeon full o'kids.

Bronzy

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Re: Let's speculate on what crime my employee committed
« Reply #79 on: July 10, 2020, 07:01:19 PM »
He’s been charged with being a breakcore musician

Tony Tony Tony

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Re: Let's speculate on what crime my employee committed
« Reply #80 on: July 10, 2020, 07:10:11 PM »
He posted on CaB that Graham Linehan had a point.

Non Stop Dancer

  • Nice apple tart
Re: Let's speculate on what crime my employee committed
« Reply #81 on: July 10, 2020, 07:17:53 PM »
Can I just offer this piece of advice to people: think very fucking carefully about employing people, ever. Ten years of it and there's always something. Once you go down that route, just being their manager represents a good 80% of your job.

Thomas

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Re: Let's speculate on what crime my employee committed
« Reply #82 on: July 10, 2020, 07:22:27 PM »
Can I just offer this piece of advice to people: think very fucking carefully about employing people, ever. Ten years of it and there's always something. Once you go down that route, just being their manager represents a good 80% of your job.

Yeah. I'm always asking my boss for help. 'How does this work?' 'Where do I save that?' 'Do you think I overstated my Excel proficiency on my CV?' Must be a right fucking pain. Also really annoyed her when I was arrested for shipping arms to the Congo.

imitationleather

  • "The French... are famous... for their kissing"
    • http://last.fm/user/ImiLeathr
Re: Let's speculate on what crime my employee committed
« Reply #83 on: July 10, 2020, 07:25:09 PM »
Can I just offer this piece of advice to people: think very fucking carefully about employing people, ever. Ten years of it and there's always something. Once you go down that route, just being their manager represents a good 80% of your job.

Just run the power plant by yourself!

Re: Let's speculate on what crime my employee committed
« Reply #84 on: July 10, 2020, 07:25:13 PM »
Thelawpages.com might have his case on there when he appears in court, if you know when that is. You can also just email the court in question and ask what the charges are. Pretend you're a journalist if it makes it easier. "Hi, I'm drafting an article on *blank* for publication after the court date and I just want to check the charges.

Re: Let's speculate on what crime my employee committed
« Reply #85 on: July 10, 2020, 07:45:54 PM »
Shouldn't matter really. In a civilised society he would be suspended on pay (because I can imagine it'd be grim for both him and colleagues) until the verdict at which point they can either be found guilty or reinstated. Paid for by the state.

Yeah, ok. I've maybe been a bit bullish. But I've been coming from the perspective that at this point it looks like he's done something pretty bad.  And I've given employment law advice to small businesses for a living in the past. While big businesses can absorb the cost of suspension on full pay, it sounds like we're talking a small operation here. The 'not guilty' or charges dropped shouldn't preclude someone from being sacked necessarily either. Maybe that's the case here, maybe not.

Non Stop Dancer

  • Nice apple tart
Re: Let's speculate on what crime my employee committed
« Reply #86 on: July 10, 2020, 08:14:05 PM »
Small outfit, 5 of us including me and business partner. Really like this guy on a personal level, probably more so than anyone who's ever worked for us, and he's great at his job. Terminating his contract is the last thing I'd want to do, and this couldn't really have come at a worse time due to us just starting to emerge from the company being mothballed for the last 4 months. Need to find out if he's even eligible to receive furlough pay but common sense tells me he won't.

Dr Rock

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Re: Let's speculate on what crime my employee committed
« Reply #87 on: July 10, 2020, 08:30:13 PM »
Something to do with dog-fighting, that's my hunch.

icehaven

  • WORLD'S BIGGEST RIP OFF: $100 PER PERSON
Re: Let's speculate on what crime my employee committed
« Reply #88 on: July 10, 2020, 08:38:04 PM »
It really could be anything, and a few years of working in a clink has taught me trying to work out what someone is in for is a waste of time, the most unlikely people are in for the most unlikely things.

touchingcloth

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Re: Let's speculate on what crime my employee committed
« Reply #89 on: July 10, 2020, 09:58:39 PM »
I’ve experienced multiple people leaving work with no notice, and I don’t know definitely whether that was someone deciding themselves to quit, gross misconduct/fingers in tills, or crimes unrelated to work.

They’ve all come with an announcement along the lines of “we are letting you know that Ian Dubious will no longer be working at Company with immediate effect. Speak with your line manager if you have any concerns about this”. I’ve no idea what information was given to the line managers in advance, of course. 

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