Watching (or rewatching) The Sopranos

[13 schoolyards]

The first time I saw the final episode I thought it was pretty obvious that the ending was all about the constant dread and tension that accompanied Tony Soprano every step of his waking life. Whether he died in the next ten seconds or ten years later, he'd basically be living in a hell of his own making where he could never relax, never just settle back and enjoy life, never truly take pleasure from the company of his family or friends because of everything he'd done and the life he'd chosen.

All these demands that the ending somehow be resolved as one thing or another seem a bit reductive for a show with so many loose ends and dream sequences.

[Blue Jam]

The first time I saw the final episode I thought it was pretty obvious that the ending was all about the constant dread and tension that accompanied Tony Soprano every step of his waking life. Whether he died in the next ten seconds or ten years later, he'd basically be living in a hell of his own making where he could never relax, never just settle back and enjoy life

Also a few episodes earlier doesn't Carmela tell him she can't believe they're getting old and "still doing this"? Although Carmela knew what she was getting into when she married Tony it seems she still pictured them at least enjoying retirement together, even though that's not how it works and once you're "made" there's no going back, no retirement, no point where you just decide you don't want to bring in your weekly sub of $5,000 anymore, no point where you can stop worrying about being whacked or going to prison.

I've just realised there's a parallel there with Sexy Beast and Gal trying to retire to Spain before Don Logan tracks him down. Maybe the writers had that in mind with the references to that film in the episode where Sir Ben Kingsley turns up.

[El Unicornio, mang]

Best comedy moment of the whole show for me is when Furio slips over on the ice and Silvio yells "son of a bitch!" when they all get up to help him.

Speaking of that, this extremely rare footage (there wasn't even a still to be found online) surfaced about a year ago having previously only been seen on the first HBO broadcast, Fairuza Balk playing the role of Agent Ciccerone, which they reshot with Lola Glaudini for future reruns/dvd etc.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rff7-6ejd9Q&t=1s

[dr_christian_troy]

i always found it one of the the most depressing shows ever, one of the best, it was great, but just total bleakness, another masterpiece was on HBO around the same time, Six Feet Under, set in a funeral home, it got called too bleak by some, i always found Sopranos way darker.

In terms of HBO bleakness, The Leftovers is on the same level as Six Feet Under for me. Both incredible shows too.

[evilcommiedictator]

Imagine thought if he did show people who died and did not die in the final episode, people would be complaining about it today. Leaving it like that allows people to draw their own conclusions over what exactly happens, and indeed, even if their mob life of never being secure still goes on to this day.

Or maybe Tony gets the covid and his heart finally gets him. The family claps for the paramedics.

[Blue Jam]

The Leftovers

Oh FFS, that's another one I've been meaning to watch. Why is there so much telly?

[Blue Jam]

It's been mentioned more than once on this forum. I can just about believe that all these women are attracted to a human bear with sinus issues, because of his power, confidence and wealth. However, even that stretches credulity sometimes.

As someone with a bit of a "thing" for fictional bastards I still don't get his appeal, even in-universe. Don Draper's philandery is understandable because he's plainly handsome as fuck.

I have a friend who fancies Gene Hunt. I don't get that one either.

Right, time to start reading Difficult Men!

[ersatz99]

I've only seen it once through but I remember being distracted in the final scene by the Members Only jacket guy looking the spit of Steve Perry out of Journey whose voice then turns out to be the last thing heard.

[lipsink]

Has anyone been listening to/watching the 'Talking Sopranos' podcast? I was hoping it would be great but unfortunately the first episode was a little unbearable due to Steve Schirripa (Bobby Bacala) constantly interrupting Michael Imperioli (Christopher) when he's telling really interesting stories. I'm hoping it's just the first episode and they settle in to it or Imperoli tells him to shut the fuck up.

[dr_christian_troy]

My take on the final scene has been a reflection on Season 1. His anxiety stemmed from losing his family (the ducks etc). At the end of Season 1 he is reunited with his family in a restaurant with a sense of unknowing of what the future holds. He refers to remembering "the good times" - echoed by AJ in the final scene. His uncertainty ultimately stems from losing his family, and so the second Meadow walks through the door, his family is reunited and for now, his anxiety is reassured momentarily and the cycle continues, and our involvement with the story ends. He might die later that day, he might die the next day and so on. There's always that threat - but for now, and like the end of Season 1, he has his family, and despite everything, that's all that really mattered.

[mr. logic]

This unplanned killing of one of Phil's soldiers was pretty whimmy:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJHpvjdJ6X0

That overhead shot is glorious. I forget how cinematic this show can be.

Yeah. Fair enough, but Tony was a mob boss in a public setting. Very different. Anyway, it's pretty moot at this point as Chase confirmed it in that book the other year. Personally, I preferred the ambiguity, and I'm not convinced that they would have killed him like that. (In front of his family too.)

[mr. logic]

Has anyone been listening to/watching the 'Talking Sopranos' podcast? I was hoping it would be great but unfortunately the first episode was a little unbearable due to Steve Schirripa (Bobby Bacala) constantly interrupting Michael Imperioli (Christopher) when he's telling really interesting stories. I'm hoping it's just the first episode and they settle in to it or Imperoli tells him to shut the fuck up.

He doesn't really ever shut up. But it gets better. I'm enjoying it, and rewatching along with them on a Monday. Nice to space it out to one a week. Usually, I end up blitzing them.

[Voltan (Man of Steel)]

Has anyone been listening to/watching the 'Talking Sopranos' podcast? I was hoping it would be great but unfortunately the first episode was a little unbearable due to Steve Schirripa (Bobby Bacala) constantly interrupting Michael Imperioli (Christopher) when he's telling really interesting stories. I'm hoping it's just the first episode and they settle in to it or Imperoli tells him to shut the fuck up.

They talk over each other less in subsequent episodes but Steve Schirripa remains pretty annoying throughout. Whereas Michael Imperioli gives interesting insights, interpretations and anecdotes, Schirripa often gives the impression that he didn't really understand what was going on half the time. I still enjoy listening to it though and, to a slightly lesser extent, Made Women with Drea De Matteo (Adriana) and her friend Chris.

[Old Gold Tooth]

Speaking of that, this extremely rare footage (there wasn't even a still to be found online) surfaced about a year ago having previously only been seen on the first HBO broadcast, Fairuza Balk playing the role of Agent Ciccerone, which they reshot with Lola Glaudini for future reruns/dvd etc.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rff7-6ejd9Q&t=1s

That's great, cheers for posting that. I saw the Balk footage on the original Channel 4 broadcast when I was in my teens and for the longest time I wasn't sure if I was just misremembering it being included. As you say it's been wiped from any home media and I read an interview once where Chase declined to comment on the reason for the recast (no idea where this was, probably linked from the cracking Sopranos Autopsy site).

[Puce Moment]

They talk over each other less in subsequent episodes but Steve Schirripa remains pretty annoying throughout. Whereas Michael Imperioli gives interesting insights, interpretations and anecdotes, Schirripa often gives the impression that he didn't really understand what was going on half the time. I still enjoy listening to it though and, to a slightly lesser extent, Made Women with Drea De Matteo (Adriana) and her friend Chris.

Yeah, Imperioli naturally has tons of stuff to say because he would have been in the writers' room on occasion, and therefore more privy pre-pro to stuff that I love to heat about. Schirripa is definitely quantity over quality but I have to say that Imperioli doesn't give off vibes that he would like to lead this thing. I think he is happy to sit back and let that fat fuck steer the ship, whilst he pitches in with nuggets and great reflections.

[El Unicornio, mang]

That's great, cheers for posting that. I saw the Balk footage on the original Channel 4 broadcast when I was in my teens and for the longest time I wasn't sure if I was just misremembering it being included. As you say it's been wiped from any home media and I read an interview once where Chase declined to comment on the reason for the recast (no idea where this was, probably linked from the cracking Sopranos Autopsy site).

Seems to be conflicting opinions on why she was recast but Glaudini does seem like a better fit.

I rewatched the re-shot scene to compare and it appears they just re-used the footage of Adriana talking and spliced it with the new shots of Glaudini. Cleverly done, although you can tell there's a slight lighting/colour difference between the two.

[Blinder Data]

Yeah. Fair enough, but Tony was a mob boss in a public setting. Very different. Anyway, it%u2019s pretty moot at this point as Chase confirmed it in that book the other year. Personally, I preferred the ambiguity, and I%u2019m not convinced that they would have killed him like that. (In front of his family too.)

Phil Leotardo was killed in front of his wife and grandchildren. I don't think the location matters - if they want to kill you, they will. They might even have decided to do it there as an ostentatious show of power and disrespect.

At the time the uncertainty over who might have killed Tony bothered me. But I remember the sitdown in the abandoned warehouse to permit Tony arranging Phil's death having an ambiguous air, as if Butch DeConcini had not fully forgiven Tony. I wouldn't be surprised if the New York family took out Tony as a public display of revenge for Phil and obviously to mop up the business leftover.

[jobotic]

The New jersey crew was pretty much on its arse as well wasn't it? Tony gone and its not hard to take control of.

Plus lots of hits have been done by people from outside that have been hired for the job in past episodes.

[mr. logic]

I seem to remember there being some theory that Paulie had been involved and sold Tony out too. Tell you what, Chase is a genius isn't he? I watched Game of Thrones literally last month and can remember barely anything about its finale.

[Blue Jam]

Phil Leotardo was killed in front of his wife and grandchildren. I don't think the location matters - if they want to kill you, they will. They might even have decided to do it there as an ostentatious show of power and disrespect.

Bobby Bacalieri was shot in a toy shop, in front of the owner's children. Not his own children of course but evidently these guys don't care if there might be children present to witness their violence. That's also an example of that dissonance David Chase is so fond of.

[JaDanketies]

I watched Game of Thrones literally last month and can remember barely anything about its finale.

Wow, some people have all the luck.

[mr. logic]

Bobby Bacalieri was shot in a toy shop, in front of the owner's children. Not his own children of course but evidently these guys don't care if there might be children present to witness their violence. That's also an example of that dissonance David Chase is so fond of.

That was during a war though, when all bets were off. In general, you didn't gets kids and wives involved. Not as any abiding principle, but as a guiding way of doing things. Like I say, Chase has since said that Tony was whacked, but I don't think it would have been considered the ideal way of going about things.

[dr_christian_troy]

That was during a war though, when all bets were off. In general, you didn't gets kids and wives involved. Not as any abiding principle, but as a guiding way of doing things. Like I say, Chase has since said that Tony was whacked, but I don't think it would have been considered the ideal way of going about things.

I've felt the same about this - it's one thing to do it in a toy shop, but a crowded restaurant seems less likely. I mean, that's a lot of witnesses, more than the odd person here and there. Do you reckon they would kill the rest of the family at the table? Or seeing as the last shot is not from Tony's POV, was Meadow killed as she walked through the door? Granted that's more of a Godfather III vibe but still.

[bgmnts]

I've felt the same about this - it's one thing to do it in a toy shop, but a crowded restaurant seems less likely. I mean, that's a lot of witnesses, more than the odd person here and there.

Joe Gallo was killed in a restaurant with plenty of witnesses, in front of his family.

Joe Colombo was killed literally in the middle of a crowd with his family present.

These things do happen in real life but yeah usually its in the boot of a car, driven up to the sticks, not flashy.

[chveik]

it doesn't matter what Chase says, we didn't see Tony being killed.

[dr_christian_troy]

Joe Gallo was killed in a restaurant with plenty of witnesses, in front of his family.

Joe Colombo was killed literally in the middle of a crowd with his family present.

These things do happen in real life but yeah usually its in the boot of a car, driven up to the sticks, not flashy.

Ah fair enough - I guess in the context of the narrative it seems less common, but I know what you mean. I think the thought of it in terms of the horrifying element is not so much Tony being killed, but his family being there when it happens.

[DrGreggles]

seeing as the last shot is not from Tony's POV

The last shot is the blackout from Tony's POV.

"At the end, you probably don't hear anything, everything just goes black"

[mr. logic]

it doesn't matter what Chase says, we didn't see Tony being killed.

Yeah, this was always my view too. As brilliant as it is, in a literal sense it is still filmed media and Tony didn't die because he didn't actually die. Nobody wrote that he did.

[Gulftastic]

The New jersey crew was pretty much on its arse as well wasn't it? Tony gone and its not hard to take control of.

Plus lots of hits have been done by people from outside that have been hired for the job in past episodes.

True. Syl in a coma, Bobby gone, no other obvious candidate to take over as boss. Maybe someone from the Barese crew. They were supposed to be the biggest crew in the family.

[dr_christian_troy]

True. Syl in a coma, Bobby gone, no other obvious candidate to take over as boss. Maybe someone from the Barese crew. They were supposed to be the biggest crew in the family.

Another layer to the cake but if Tony did die, it would be a cruel and appropriate joke that Paulie is left taking the boss role and ends up flushing the whole family down the toilet.