What is wrong with Iannucci

[finnquark]

Ianucci was on Hardtalk recently, and I took from that what others have already said. He's a 'sensible' man who feels it necessary to poke and prod at what he sees as extremes, be they left or right. He hasn't been 'co-opted' at all, he's just terribly English in his sentiments. Someone mentioned Hislop above - his recent show on the emotional history of Brits rings a bell here. Incredibly soft, focused almost exclusively on middle class culture and values, and from the 25 minutes of Ianucci being interviewed by Sackur, that came across too. Worthwhile listening in some respects.

[notjosh]

I've wondered this with a lot of 90's comedy, I think we'd tend to see people who had what seemed to be anti-establishment attitudes and assumed the natural extension of this was that they'd have a left-wrong point of view. Now in retrospect, it feels like they were simply pointing at things, and saying "isn't this ridiculous!"

I know what you mean. I used to think this guy was a brilliant critic of the ruthlessness of late-stage capitalism, but listening to his act now it actually sounds more like an attack on the censoriousness of the new hard left:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CiajbgY6ofU

[Astronaut Omens]

I think, a bit like Private Eye, he never really held any strong ideological position but was interested in how politics and the media actually function. As with Private Eye's reporting on petty local feuds between corrupt local councillors, the Thick of It helped me understand the extent to which Britain's problems go beyond issues of the ruling ideology, which a change in government might be able to solve, and on to broader issues of competence and basic intelligence in all the political parties and the civil service. I was dissapointed he got on the anti-corbyn bandwagon, but I was never really after political opinions from him exactly, more like knowledge about how things work

[BlodwynPig]

Ianucci was on Hardtalk recently, and I took from that what others have already said. He's a 'sensible' man who feels it necessary to poke and prod at what he sees as extremes, be they left or right. He hasn't been 'co-opted' at all, he's just terribly English in his sentiments. Someone mentioned Hislop above - his recent show on the emotional history of Brits rings a bell here. Incredibly soft, focused almost exclusively on middle class culture and values, and from the 25 minutes of Ianucci being interviewed by Sackur, that came across too. Worthwhile listening in some respects.

'poke and prod' at buffoon Boris maybe.... dismantle any chance of progressive, socialist change when it comes to Corbyn

[Sin Agog]

Most true bleeding heart lefties, like hardcore Hindus and Buddhists, barely achieve any material success because they realise that almost every decision will probably come with a myriad of painful consequences for others, entombing them in their own overactive brains' endless syllogisms.  To really edge your way into showbiz success requires the kind of brazen attitude that rarely meshes with the type who just canne claw themselves out of their mossy wells of empathy.  Basically, every time we switch on the TV we fill the room with the light of charming psychopaths who fucking did their damndest to make sure they got to exactly where they are.  It's the same reason why so many politicians are toerags.

[Kelvin]

I suspect he was always centre left. As Thursday says, I think we just have a habit of projecting our own beliefs and politics onto people we admire, although I suppose as he's risen up the production ranks, surrounded himself with media types, befriended journalists, settled down with a family, his views have got stodgier, more inflexible, more precisely aligned to the approved "sensible" establishment line.

I think, a bit like Private Eye, he never really held any strong ideological position but was interested in how politics and the media actually function. As with Private Eye's reporting on petty local feuds between corrupt local councillors, the Thick of It helped me understand the extent to which Britain's problems go beyond issues of the ruling ideology, which a change in government might be able to solve, and on to broader issues of competence and basic intelligence in all the political parties and the civil service. I was dissapointed he got on the anti-corbyn bandwagon, but I was never really after political opinions from him exactly, more like knowledge about how things work

Absolutely, but that why it's so disappointing. When it came to Corbyn, he wasn't able to see "how things work"; he couldn't see through the media lines, the lies, the distortions. He took that stuff at face value and recycled it without question.

[Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth]

It all started going wrong that time he suggested bombing Iran.

[petril]

he's just terribly English in his sentiments

this tickled me, with the knowledge that he comes from a Catholic, Glaswegian background and everything that ends up in the trolley with growing up like that

[Brundle-Fly]

Most true bleeding heart lefties, like hardcore Hindus and Buddhists, barely achieve any material success because they realise that almost every decision will probably come with a myriad of painful consequences for others, entombing them in their own overactive brains' endless syllogisms.  To really edge your way into showbiz success requires the kind of brazen attitude that rarely meshes with the type who just canne claw themselves out of their mossy wells of empathy.  Basically, every time we switch on the TV we fill the room with the light of charming psychopaths who fucking did their damndest to make sure they got to exactly where they are.  It's the same reason why so many politicians are toerags.

Parklife!

[Old Nehamkin]

I think it's a bit simplistic to say that Iannucci has always been an ideologically vacuous centrist or that it's just projection for leftists to be disappointed with his current politics. He may never have been an avowed socialist, but during the early years of Cameron's government I remember him being a very vocal campaigner against austerity and, particularly, NHS underfunding, which is why it was so confusing and depressing to see him accept an OBE from the same government and then refuse to support Corbyn when he campaigned on those very issues. Likewise, post-2016 it was heartbreaking to see him defending Alastair Campbell on Twitter as well as participating in the craven centrist deification of John McCain, having once been such a strident anti-imperialist who, with In The Loop, correctly portrayed the architects of the Iraq War as psychopathic war criminals (I'd also argue that his disgust with the culture of spin around the invasion was probably his chief inspiration for The Thick of It in the first place). He has taken political stands that he's gone on to betray or compromise in pretty fundamental ways, and I don't think it's just a case of leftists being disheartened to discover that he was never on their side to begin with.

[Thursday]

I've wondered this with a lot of 90's comedy, I think we'd tend to see people who had what seemed to be anti-establishment attitudes and assumed the natural extension of this was that they'd have a left-wrong point of view. Now in retrospect, it feels like they were simply pointing at things, and saying "isn't this ridiculous!"

Left wrong? fucking hell.

HUR HUR FREUDIAN SLIP EH?

[ProvanFan]

this tickled me, with the knowledge that he comes from a Catholic, Glaswegian background and everything that ends up in the trolley with growing up like that

I wonder what young team he was in

[kngen]

I wonder what young team he was in

Hyndland Choir Ya Bass!

[BlodwynPig]

I think it's a bit simplistic to say that Iannucci has always been an ideologically vacuous centrist or that it's just projection for leftists to be disappointed with his current politics. He may never have been an avowed socialist, but during the early years of Cameron's government I remember him being a very vocal campaigner against austerity and, particularly, NHS underfunding, which is why it was so confusing and depressing to see him accept an OBE from the same government and then refuse to support Corbyn when he campaigned on those very issues. Likewise, post-2016 it was heartbreaking to see him defending Alastair Campbell on Twitter as well as participating in the craven centrist deification of John McCain, having once been such a strident anti-imperialist who, with In The Loop, correctly portrayed the architects of the Iraq War as psychopathic war criminals (I'd also argue that his disgust with the culture of spin around the invasion was probably his chief inspiration for The Thick of It in the first place). He has taken political stands that he's gone on to betray or compromise in pretty fundamental ways, and I don't think it's just a case of leftists being disheartened to discover that he was never on their side to begin with.

Can we get Neil to do a CaB interview with him?

[NoSleep]

With money on how long it lasts before he hangs up?

[dissolute ocelot]

The idea that the most important virtue in government is competency naturally leads to technocratic centrism (e.g. Blairite targets-based administration). I'm not saying we should strive for incompetent governments but there's definitely something to be said for taking risks and doing the right thing even if you don't know how it'll work out. Just as there's more to life than trying to maximise the GDP.

[Astronaut Omens]

Yes, but aren't there progressive aims that could just as easily be expressed as numerical targets? Lower carbon emissions? Lower coronoavirus deaths? Lower infant mortality? And aren't these targets that progressive people need to be fighting for, just as much as they need to be pushing for more abstract changes in values?

And aren't the most compelling arguments against Johnson's government not just ideological,  but also on questions of competence? They are handling the coronavirus crisis really badly- in a world where both journalism and satire were doing their job, this would be permanently undermining the Torie's reputation. Too many people still think of the Tories as a safe pair of hands,the adults in the room, natural born leaders etc. , a good satirist would be looking at changing that

[paddy72]

Parklife!

Outstanding work.

[shh]

There was a quip in the AI Shows at the expense of the Guardian. We should have known!

[Dewt]

Armando Iannucci's favourite song is "Kiss From a Rose" by "Seal". He also likes underground music, such as "Killer" by "Seal feat. Adamski".

[Virgo76]

Bloody Armando.
The Thick of It. Veep. Death of Stalin, all just in the last decade. What a terrible record.
Even worse. He attacked Jeremy Corbyn! Just because he totally mishandled the Brexit and antisemitism issues and completely let Labour and all its supporters down. Unforgivable.

[Autopsy Turvey]

EDIT: Snark removed.

The premise of this thread is bad and unpleasant.

It is simultaneously chilling and hilarious, and it needs a lot more snark. The state of these lunatics.

[Barry Admin]

Interesting discussion; I've enjoyed it, and am glad to see more thoughtful stuff in CC again.

[mobias]

I was definitely disappointed in him for accepting that OBE. There was really no excuse for that. I was even more disappointed in Palin for accepting his knighthood too. Doesn't mean to say I'm reappraising either of their careers though. Is anyone truthfully that surprised that Iannucci isn't quite as left wing as he used to be now he's to older and more successful? I suspect Chris Morris is a lot more moderate and middle of the road these days too. Its just what happens as you get older. I think in part because there's only so long you can maintain that amount of anger and energy in you.

[Thursday]

Its just what happens as you get older. I think in part because there's only so long you can maintain that amount of anger and energy in you.

Nah this is bollocks

[Pink Gregory]

It's not about agreeing with his views, it's about a satirist choosing or being unable to see through centrist/right biased media and going along with it.

[Famous Mortimer]

This whole "you get more conservative as you get older" non-truism stems from the fact that Boomers assumed their children would also have comfortable well-paying jobs and be able to afford their own homes, new cars every few years and regular holidays. Why would anything about growing up now be likely to make people more conservative?

[Virgo76]

1990s Armando wouldn't have supported Corbyn either.

[mobias]

This whole "you get more conservative as you get older" non-truism stems from the fact that Boomers assumed their children would also have comfortable well-paying jobs and be able to afford their own homes, new cars every few years and regular holidays. Why would anything about growing up now be likely to make people more conservative?

From my experience people definitely got more socially conservative as they get older. There's a difference between being socially conservative and politically conservative. I've met plenty labour voters in their 50's and 60's who's views about wider society could come straight out of the pages of the daily mail.

It's not about agreeing with his views, it's about a satirist choosing or being unable to see through centrist/right biased media and going along with it.

Like I said, I was disappointed in him for accepting the OBE. Beyond that I don't give a toss about how 'centrist' he is now.

[Chriddof]

1990s Armando wouldn't have supported Corbyn either.

True, he'd have treated him in much the same way as 80s satirists treated Micheal Foot. But in the 90s Armando saw right through the Tories, even before it all went tits-up for them after the '92 election - imagine if he'd given interviews circa 94 / 95 in which he went on about how great John Major was.

From my experience people definitely got more socially conservative as they get older. There's a difference between being socially conservative and politically conservative. I've met plenty labour voters in their 50's and 60's who's views about wider society could come straight out of the pages of the daily mail.

You've kind of missed Famous Mortimer's point there, in which he's saying that the conditions that made people who are now in their 50s and 60s socially conservative basically no longer exist. The outlook is very bleak for younger generations now, in all sorts of ways.

Anyway, I finally managed to find that Morris quote I mentioned earlier - it was on a now defunct website archived via The Wayback Machine. As I thought, I did mis-remember it a bit. It's from an interview around the time of the CM Radio 1 Show in '94, and this is the penultimate and absolutely massive paragraph (notable part in bold):

Whereas the rest of The Day Today team all have form as stand-ups or comic actors, Morris is an out-and-out broadcaster who views much of the rest of the 90s comedy scene with disdain. Get him on the subject of the Groucho Club, the Edinburgh Fringe ('a disgusting, debased circus') or the lazy, lucrative spin-off book ('The Day Today Encyclopedia of Bollocks? Alan Partridge's A-Z of Sport?') and you might be talking to a puritanical Victorian cleric played by Alan Rickman. His high standards occasionally led to rows on On The Hour and The Day Today: he loathed the pilot for the BBC2 series, and at one stage walked out, leaving the mock news network anchorless. His appetite for devilment could also test his colleagues' sang froid. Armando Iannucci, co-deviser and co-writer of both shows, vetoed an On The Hour stunt involving the supposed discovery of Christ's fossilised remains, saying 'You have to remember I'm a guilty lapsed Catholic'. 'But so am I', replied Morris. Their volatile relationship, he says, was nevertheless grounded in '90 per cent humour overlap'. What really incensed him on The Day Today was 'the orgy of middle-management nitwits who just sit there f***ing up people's programmes - taking a fantastically patrician approach to patrolling the nation's sensibilities, reacting like their own aunts'. This gets him much more worked up than his dealings with Radio 1. As parody, The Day Today was ultimately a tad too 'ingratiating' and his future TV plans centre on 'capitalising on that experience but stepping out of the inverted commas of the fake news programme'. Scam interviews seem to feature - hence his concern that photographs might render him recognisable - but as yet it's all 'like early experiments in man-powered flight, with men with wings strapped to their backs'. Morris is definitely not involved in that elusive beast, BBC2 controller Michael Jackson's 'That Was The Week That Was for the 90s' (which may or may not be Iannucci's projected Saturday night satire series). Nor will he be sending any good luck cards: 'If (Jackson) thinks he's tapped into some new comedy mafia . . . I hope it's the biggest failure since (the Peter Sellers film) Shot In The Dark. I wish him the absolute worst in trying to revive TW3. The idea is complete bollocks'.

So he was having more of a go at a vague idea Michael Jackson (not that one) had, rather than Armistice. (Later on, Jackson was the person who rejected Brass Eye from being a BBC2 programme, I believe, leading it to being picked up by C4.) Interesting to read Chris & Armando's relationship being described as "volatile" - I certainly think of them as always being good mates, aside from the well-known anecdote about him walking out of the pilot for a while.