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What is wrong with Iannucci

Started by pancreas, July 09, 2020, 05:15:49 PM

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mobias

I don't know if anyone has seen this 2015 interview but Armando Iannucci and Steve Coogan discuss working again one day with Chis Morris. Go to the 1.15 mark https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jKmYLm23pTE

BlodwynPig


Ballad of Ballard Berkley

QuoteMorris is definitely not involved in that elusive beast, BBC2 controller Michael Jackson's 'That Was The Week That Was for the 90s' (which may or may not be Iannucci's projected Saturday night satire series). Nor will he be sending any good luck cards: 'If (Jackson) thinks he's tapped into some new comedy mafia . . . I hope it's the biggest failure since (the Peter Sellers film) Shot In The Dark. I wish him the absolute worst in trying to revive TW3. The idea is complete bollocks'.

Morris wasn't referring to the much-loved Peter Sellers comedy A Shot in the Dark there, he was surely talking about the not-loved early '90s Channel 4 flop A Stab in the Dark starring David Baddiel, Tracy MacLeod and, yes, Michael Gove.

Although I do like the idea of Morris regarding a harmless Inspector Clouseau romp as a never-beaten example of irredeemable artistic failure.

I have nothing else to add to this interesting conversation.

BlodwynPig

Quote from: mobias on July 11, 2020, 07:33:02 PM
I don't know if anyone has seen this 2015 interview but Armando Iannucci and Steve Coogan discuss working again one day with Chis Morris. Go to the 1.15 mark https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jKmYLm23pTE

here you go

https://youtu.be/jKmYLm23pTE?t=5416

Chriddof

Quote from: Ballad of Ballard Berkley on July 11, 2020, 08:10:29 PM
Although I do like the idea of Morris regarding a harmless Inspector Clouseau romp as a never-beaten example of irredeemable artistic failure.

I was genuinely confused about that, because I forgot it was also the title of that other shit.

"But surely that famous bit with the old bloke sitting down in a chair to watch an inevitable traffic accident was good?"
"No, that was from The Pink Panther. THIS IS THE NEEEEEWS!"

Virgo76

Am I missing something?
Has he endorsed the Tories?
Not supporting Corbyn doesn't make him a Tory.

Alberon


tribalfusion

Quote from: mobias on July 11, 2020, 06:42:43 PM
I was definitely disappointed in him for accepting that OBE. There was really no excuse for that. I was even more disappointed in Palin for accepting his knighthood too. Doesn't mean to say I'm reappraising either of their careers though. Is anyone truthfully that surprised that Iannucci isn't quite as left wing as he used to be now he's to older and more successful? I suspect Chris Morris is a lot more moderate and middle of the road these days too. Its just what happens as you get older. I think in part because there's only so long you can maintain that amount of anger and energy in you.


That's not some sort of rule. George Carlin famously became more critical as he got older and was far more full of bite than he was when he started.

Rob Newman is another obvious case of someone who started out quite light and became far more radical.

Kryton

Quote from: Famous Mortimer on July 11, 2020, 06:50:45 PM
This whole "you get more conservative as you get older" non-truism stems from the fact that Boomers assumed their children would also have comfortable well-paying jobs and be able to afford their own homes, new cars every few years and regular holidays. Why would anything about growing up now be likely to make people more conservative?

I dunno, my Dad used to be a flag-waving socialist and now he voted Brexit, thinks Covid-19 is a hoax and once made a facebook post demanding Obama's birth certificate. He's not even American.

Noodle Lizard

Quote from: tribalfusion on July 11, 2020, 09:01:25 PMThat's not some sort of rule. George Carlin famously became more critical as he got older and was far more full of bite than he was when he started.

You could argue (and some have) that he fit into the trend of becoming more "reactionary" with age. I personally think this is a bit of an "optics illusion", where people who were rightly considered radically anti-establishment or otherwise "liberal" in their time begin to look a bit conservative as the political thresholds move around, despite not really altering their own core principles.

I think it's hard to make a case for Carlin being anything other than broadly left wing, but his anti-voting, anti-PC and (somewhat) anti-environmentalist material for instance probably wouldn't make him very popular among any left wing contemporaries he might have today. Of course, with him having been dead for 12 years, it's hard to say how he might have fit in today's cultural climate. That said, I can't imagine him being fully on-board with the cancel culture of Twitter etc., given that he was on the front lines for Lenny Bruce's obscenity charges and dedicated a large portion of his career to railing against attempts to police free expression.

This bit likely wouldn't go down well right now: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X29lF43mUlo

Ballad of Ballard Berkley

#70
Quote from: tribalfusion on July 11, 2020, 09:01:25 PM

That's not some sort of rule. George Carlin famously became more critical as he got older and was far more full of bite than he was when he started.

Rob Newman is another obvious case of someone who started out quite light and became far more radical.

About 15 years ago at Christmas, I sat down with my parents to watch the latest Billy Connolly live DVD. We all love Billy. After half an hour of the Big Yin raging splenetically about how the world is a fucking cesspit ruled by cunts, my mum asked if we could switch it off, as she wasn't enjoying it.

My mum is a Cool Dude, she probably agreed with most of the things he was saying, but it wasn't actually funny. I did, however, admire the fact that Connolly, who was in his sixties at the time, came across as genuinely angry.

Does anyone know the show I'm talking about? Did he say anything that could get him cancelled?* All I can dimly recall is a general diatribe about how we're all screwed and what's the fucking point.

* It wasn't the Bigley show, that was never filmed, and he wasn't having a go at political correctness (His thoughts on that subject were point-missing bullshit, as they basically amounted to "Why can't I say 'fuck' and 'cunt' while talking about the funny side of the terrible things we all go through?" No one is stopping you from saying any of that, you're literally doing it right now in front of an adoring audience. He's a thoughtful man who doesn't think things through sometimes. The semi-improvised nature of his act results in him coming out with utter rubbish whenever he's cogitating on Important Issues.)

tribalfusion

Quote from: Noodle Lizard on July 11, 2020, 10:43:38 PM
You could argue (and some have) that he fit into the trend of becoming more "reactionary" with age. I personally think this is a bit of an "optics illusion", where people who were rightly considered radically anti-establishment or otherwise "liberal" in their time begin to look a bit conservative as the political thresholds move around, despite not really altering their own core principles.

I think it's hard to make a case for Carlin being anything other than broadly left wing, but his anti-voting, anti-PC and (somewhat) anti-environmentalist material for instance probably wouldn't make him very popular among any left wing contemporaries he might have today. Of course, with him having been dead for 12 years, it's hard to say how he might have fit in today's cultural climate. That said, I can't imagine him being fully on-board with the cancel culture of Twitter etc., given that he was on the front lines for Lenny Bruce's obscenity charges and dedicated a large portion of his career to railing against attempts to police free expression.

This bit likely wouldn't go down well right now: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X29lF43mUlo


I get what you mean; Carlin is harder to tease out into a codified  left political position and he says things which would be problematic (some were at the time too) but there's no denying that he was significantly further left at the end of his life than he was when he started his career in the early 60s.

Rob Newman is another guy who is way left of where he was when he started. Does anyone have any backstory on that?

kngen

Quote from: tribalfusion on July 12, 2020, 02:08:48 AM
Rob Newman is another guy who is way left of where he was when he started. Does anyone have any backstory on that?

I'd imagine being exposed to Baddiel on a daily basis would radicalise you to a certain extent.

petril

and now it's time for the first in a new series

Radi
calised by David Baddiel,
Radicalised by Day,
vid Baaaa...
(to the tune of Back Home)

NoSleep

Quote from: Virgo76 on July 11, 2020, 08:39:49 PM
Am I missing something?
Has he endorsed the Tories?
Not supporting Corbyn doesn't make him a Tory.

It wasn't "not supporting Corbyn" but actively attacking him using the usual media spin.

I'm certain he's diehard LibDem[nb]Like a lot of people in TV production; it isn't coincidence that that places where many BBC staff live bounce between LibDem and Tory[/nb] and thinks he's "sensible" and not "extreme" for reading and believing what is spouted in the media; lazy. It's a very superficial stance for somebody responsible for The Thick Of It and Veep and therefore supposedly up to speed about how Westminster and the MSM work. But he probably thinks he's "sensibly" above all that.

Virgo76

Actively attacking Corby wouldn't make him a Tory either any more than it does Frankie Boyle.
There seems to be an element which thinks anyone criticising Corbyn must be involved in some right wing media conspiracy.
If anyone has any quotes of Armando saying anything inexcusable, I'll eat my words.
Does anyone?
I've not heard anything which would remotely suggest the new Armando would have backed the Tories in 97 for example or that he'd back them now.

NoSleep

I said he was a LibDem.

As we have seen in the last year, the centre (LibDems, pro-remain Tories) were gunning for Corbyn moreso than than anyone else. Indeed they took it upon themselves to scupper staying in the EU just to bring down Corbyn.

All that did was assist the Tories into power, more securely than ever.

PlasticTom

Quote from: Kryton on July 11, 2020, 09:42:03 PM
I dunno, my Dad used to be a flag-waving socialist and now he voted Brexit, thinks Covid-19 is a hoax and once made a facebook post demanding Obama's birth certificate. He's not even American.

Yeah, Kenya I think?

tribalfusion

Quote from: NoSleep on July 12, 2020, 06:45:06 AM
It wasn't "not supporting Corbyn" but actively attacking him using the usual media spin.

I'm certain he's diehard LibDem[nb]Like a lot of people in TV production; it isn't coincidence that that places where many BBC staff live bounce between LibDem and Tory[/nb] and thinks he's "sensible" and not "extreme" for reading and believing what is spouted in the media; lazy. It's a very superficial stance for somebody responsible for The Thick Of It and Veep and therefore supposedly up to speed about how Westminster and the MSM work. But he probably thinks he's "sensibly" above all that.



Yes indeed. Here's Armando himself...

Sep 3, 2018: "Sorry, let me be clearer. When a national party cannot deal with anti-semitism and, indeed, seems to reward it, then it starts to lose any claim to speak up for the victim or the defenceless. And that's a shame. In fact it's so big a shame,it's literally shameful."

What absolute nonsense. Around 7:50 into this video, he lazily sketches connections between Stalin, Farage and Corbyn in their 'cult of personality':

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-sY2SE-iJ2Y

Earlier this year in the Independent:

"With the bigger picture so chaotic, he says, the best political work is being done by comedians like John Oliver"

Oliver does mostly warmed over centrist Dem pieces of course.

Or this: https://twitter.com/Aiannucci/status/1205249462924394496

"Corbyn must go and take ALL the antisemites with him. Toxic and unforgivable."


Armando might as well be a spokesperson for Hillary Clinton at this point.




NoSleep

It's so fucking complacent of him.

Virgo76

Wow. Attacking Corbyn for totally failing to shut down the anti-Semitism issue?.
And sounding a bit like he wanted the woman who very nearly beat Trump to become president?
What a monster.

The Tories didn't win because of the Lib Dems anyway. Even if it had, this hardly makes him culpable or even any more right wing than he was 25 years ago. The combined Labour and Lib Dem vote was less than the entire Tory vote. Depressingly.

tribalfusion

Quote from: Virgo76 on July 12, 2020, 08:45:06 AM
Wow. Attacking Corbyn for totally failing to shut down the anti-Semitism issue?.
And sounding a bit like he wanted the woman who very nearly beat Trump to become president?
What a monster. The Tories didn't win because of the Lib Dems anyway. Even if it had, this hardly makes him culpable or even any more right wing than he was 25 years ago. The combined Labour and Lib Dem vote was less than the entire Tory vote. Depressingly.


The antisemitism 'issue' was nothing of the sort. It was ginned up by those who wanted Corbyn out so yea, that's a pretty big shit take and it's exactly the same sort of thing the US Dems did to Sanders with their nonsensical 'Bernie Bros are mean white kids narrative' while actually sabotaging his candidacy.

Sounding like a spokesperson for a corporate shill like Hillary Clinton is also nothing about which a satirist should be proud. And that's true whether she won or lost or Biden wins or loses.

Le Tourbillon

Quote from: tribalfusion on July 12, 2020, 09:01:29 AM

The antisemitism 'issue' was nothing of the sort. It was ginned up by those who wanted Corbyn out so yea, that's a pretty big shit take and it's exactly the same sort of thing the US Dems did to Sanders with their nonsensical 'Bernie Bros are mean white kids narrative' while actually sabotaging his candidacy.

Sounding like a spokesperson for a corporate shill like Hillary Clinton is also nothing about which a satirist should be proud. And that's true whether she won or lost or Biden wins or loses.

I think the issue was the way people kept on putting inverted commas around it being an issue, instead of actually dealing with the problem an anti-semitic minority were causing. Corbyn got a raw deal in the media, but every Labour leader does. He simply wasn't up to the job of leading, as shown by the splits he caused in his own party and the repeated failure to win elections against weak governments. Having a pop at left-leaning people for failing to offer him blind support isn't helpful and doesn't seem to be a principle many Corbyn supporters are willing to extend to Starmer.

Iannucci has turned out some of the best British comedies ever, as well as great political comedy on both sides of the Atlantic. I think he's earned a lot of respect and doesn't deserve to be slated for 'centrist' views, particularly because I doubt that's even an accurate portrayal of where he sits on the left-right spectrum.

Kryton

Quote from: Virgo76 on July 11, 2020, 08:39:49 PM
Am I missing something?
Has he endorsed the Tories?
Not supporting Corbyn doesn't make him a Tory.

Yeah pretty much what I was thinking.
I found it a little frustrating initially when he went down the whole Labour = Anti-jew route like a few other famous Jewish celebs, but then it's not like he's gone full UKIP or Tory is it?
It's not like Iannucci was ever a vocal piece for the left was he?

Virgo76

Completely agree with the last two.

Shoulders?-Stomach!

Yes why didn't Corbyn manage to shut down the entirely premeditated orchestrated smear campaign against his party by a network of extremely powerful media/establishment rivals, many of whom were in his own party by effectively crippling his own party's disciplinary procedures and demuring entirely to the political discretion of the Board of Deputies ? Fucking hell what a loser!

The campaign was to ensure Corbyn was removed one way or another. Whatever he did would never have been good enough. Virgo76 is another person wilfully misunderstanding this.

Armando is too embedded in back slapping cliques in the media, and too in love with his cosy centrism to have ever discerned this.

NoSleep

Quote from: Virgo76 on July 12, 2020, 08:45:06 AM
The Tories didn't win because of the Lib Dems anyway. Even if it had, this hardly makes him culpable or even any more right wing than he was 25 years ago. The combined Labour and Lib Dem vote was less than the entire Tory vote. Depressingly.

I never said that. I said that the LibDems conspired against Corbyn above securing our membership of the EU. They absolutely refused to agree to an interim government led by the Leader of the Opposition after a vote of no confidence; an interim government that would have held a 2nd referendum followed by a general election.

What actually happened because this was not allowed to take course was the shitshow we have now.

Virgo76

Le Tourbilon's post completely hits the nail on the head here. I have nothing else to add really.

Kryton

I bet Chris Morris didn't vote for Corbyn either, shock horror.

In fact I imagine a lot of people's frustration with Labour these days is it seems to be a bit of a mockery of its former self. It used to be about protecting the working man, job rights, unions and such, nowadays (sadly) Labour don't seem to have any spine and it's less of the tough image it used to have in the 80's and now is the haven of confused, SJW's banging the identity issue drum that appeals to nobody but a select few. No wonder the fucking Tories keep winning.

It's less about workers rights these days and more about appearing as the party of compassion and caring, when what the actual working class want is someone to fucking stick it to the snobs. But alas, it seems those days are over and Labour are becoming a laughing stock. Which is really sad to see as now we'll have nothing more than fractured opposition to the Tory scum.

Kryton

Sorry if I sound negative - It just seems a lot of you are putting false hope in your satirists like they're supposed to be some kind of social hero, rather than a person with their own political and religious beliefs who will probably vote for whatever party will benefit them financially.