Phil Minton

[Ferris]

can we make it so phil minton does a duet with kittens taking a dump after his mate boner's stag

But is it art?

[idunnosomename]

boner's stag is ART

[GoblinAhFuckScary]

Yes, but what I'm getting at is are those opinions you once had about this music before it clicked and you 'got' it?

See: "projecting"

[BeardFaceMan]

See: "projecting"

How do you mean? I'm interested if fans of this music just hear it for the first time and automatically get it and enjoy it, or if there is a process you go through to get into it ie did you used have some of the opinions that you've seen/heard here or the same approaches? And if you did have those opinions, what was it that made it all change or click for you? Was it talking to fans or artists, just listening to the music or going to live shows? That kind of thing.

[NoSleep]

The best way to get into any kind of music that isn't immediately understandable (or accessable) in one hearing is (obviously) to listen to it a few times. Also, obviously, there might be a few clues on first listen that there's something interesting happening.

[GoblinAhFuckScary]

Sometimes it just isn't that deep

[NoSleep]

For example?

[GoblinAhFuckScary]

Ah, I was referring to what BeardFace said about the process of 'getting' something. Sometimes things just work, and I think that's the way most people experience art

[ASFTSN]

How do you mean? I'm interested if fans of this music just hear it for the first time and automatically get it and enjoy it

The other thing is that I'm pretty sure most people experiencing Phil Minton would be doing so after being into some very left-field stuff for a while. Seems unlikely most listeners would experience it completely "cold" unless someone was forwarding it on them for a laugh like in the OP.

IIRC you like beatdown hardcore (As do I, some of it) and that's pretty inaccessible stuff to an "outsider", I imagine most people find their way into that music via other forms of more accessible punk or metal first.

[Sin Agog]

Yeah, there is a rocky but still distinct road to something like Free Improv.  It doesn't have to be a long one, and some people are already sufficiently kitted out from the outset, but it is possible to accidentally skip a few steps and find yourself out of your element.  I even remember bunging Piper @ The Gates of Dawn in the bin when I first bought it at 12 or something, and I now know it's the only semi-decent Pink Floyd album.

[Hand Solo]

I even remember bunging Piper @ The Gates of Dawn in the bin when I first bought it at 12 or something, and I now know it's the only semi-decent Pink Floyd album.

I don't think I'll ever get Phil Minton but I got Piper on the first listen when I was 16 or 17. It's basically psychedelic lullabyes. Even the title is a Wind In The Willows reference. Roky Erickson and the 13th Floor Elevators album, or Beefheart, I got at that age pretty much straight away. Don't think Skatgobs et al will ever grace my playlist.

[Sin Agog]

I've been listening to some Onkyo today, which is like if Talk Talk were a Free Improv group: the space between the music is as important as the sound itself.  I'd say this record (Live in Saritote by Taku Sugimoto & Moe Kamura) would be as good an introduction to the whole genre as any, because at the very least it's chill as fuck: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TsIH3Jd8T5E

[Shit Good Nose]

Sometimes things just work...

...for the audient/listener.

Agree with that.  You could say that I have the "necessary grounding" to take an easy step into Minton/Skatgobs territory, given that I got into prog, canterbury, post-50s modern jazz, Zappa, Beefheart and the more "accessible" areas of free-jazz from my very early teens (actually probably around the age of 11/12), and I was digging Gentle Giant and Henry Cow and the like by my mid-to-late teens, but despite trying REALLY hard and seeing several things live, Minton and the like has never clicked with me and I've never got on with any of it.  It's not in the least bit a pleasurable listening experience for me.

But, like others, I absolutely defend its existence and people's right to enjoy it.  Lord knows I was defending my listening choices all the way through school and up until the point in the late 90s when prog started to become generally acceptable again.

EDIT - as an afterthought aside, I do wonder if my hatred of scat singing has anything to do with me not liking Minton.

[chveik]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XcEKtVZ0XX4

[BeardFaceMan]

The other thing is that I'm pretty sure most people experiencing Phil Minton would be doing so after being into some very left-field stuff for a while. Seems unlikely most listeners would experience it completely "cold" unless someone was forwarding it on them for a laugh like in the OP.

IIRC you like beatdown hardcore (As do I, some of it) and that's pretty inaccessible stuff to an "outsider", I imagine most people find their way into that music via other forms of more accessible punk or metal first.

Yeah that's true, I was just wondering what the lead in to this stuff is. I'm a big fan of Mike Patton and love all the mental noises he makes, but Fantomas (which I love) is as far as I got with his more experimental stuff. I tried the stuff he did with John Zorn (Hemophiliac, Moonchild etc) and some solo Zorn stuff, hated all of it. Adult Themes For Voice is where I eventually said "Mate..." and gave up on that stuff. That's why I ask, it's not about defending your musical choice, just explaining what you like about it.

[ASFTSN]

Fair play! Yeah I was wondering if Patton would be mentioned in the thread, take away the backing music of some of his weirder projects (like that Merzbow collab he did) and you're not a million miles away from Minton, sonically if not conceptually!

[Noodle Lizard]

My only exposure to Minton has been through this thread, and I haven't found anything especially impressive about him. Since Patton/Zorn/Moonchild have been invoked already, I've got to say that I find something like this infinitely more engaging, despite being "similar" on the face of it.

I think there's a fine line with stuff like this (and much "performance art"), where you can sort of "sense" when it's full of shit and when it's not. For me, it helps to know everyone involved in something like Moonchild has proven themselves to have other musical capabilities and expertise - I'm not sure if Minton has, being unfamiliar with everything other than videos posted here.

[NoSleep]

He has paid his dues. He's been in the Mike Westbrook Band for 50 years and has worked with RIO musicians in such projects as News From Babel (also being part of Orckestra; a project where Henry Cow and the Mike Westbrook Band merged). He's plays trumpet in those bands also (as well as singing "conventionally").

[Noodle Lizard]

Yeah, you can tell from (some of) the videos that he's got good control of his voice, but so do quite a lot of people whose work I don't care for. I think I'd have to do a lot more digging, and honestly I'm not as free jazz-literate as a couple of my friends are. I've attended performances with them which have been in equal parts some of the best and worst things I've ever seen.

[Astronaut Omens]

Derek Bailey's solo acoustic guitar album "Ballads" is worth a listen for people dubious about whether people making this kind of thing can really play, since DB performs jazz standards straightforwardly and delicately before taking them off into avant-garde directions.

[Famous Mortimer]

The big man is 80 today. Celebrate by recording yourself being repeatedly punched in the throat.

[GoblinAhFuckScary]

Happy belated birthday and I hope I can see you play again soon lovely man x

[idunnosomename]

Phil Minton has the same birthday as the Doge

[Ferris]

The big man is 80 today. Celebrate by recording yourself being repeatedly punched in the throat.

I remember when we lit the candles and he sang happy birthday last year.

Aunt Susan couldn't stop laughing. Uncle Pete got all shirty explaining why it was 'really good, actually'. I've made my excuses and won't attend this time round.

[The Mollusk]

Phil Minton has the same birthday as the Doge

[GoblinAhFuckScary]

+karma

[idunnosomename]

got myself a hawkin' screamin' wailin' screechin' living meme

[Retinend]

loooooooool