Loneliness, dating and being happy by yourself

[spaghetamine]

Apologies for what will likely be quite a boring thread. I am 24 now which I assume makes me younger than the average CaBer although there's definitely a few other people my age on here, not that it matters of course.

The longest "proper" relationship I have ever been in was for around six months when I was eighteen. Depressingly, it was one of the happiest points of my life and to some degree I haven't really experienced that level of happiness since. I haven't been in anything I could describe as a relationship since around 2016 and even that was only for a few months. We basically shagged a lot and held hands, it was nice. Then whilst I was at a festival she called me to tell me that she couldn't commit to anything serious. A few weeks later she started going out with a much older bloke who turned out to be a complete psycho. Her next boyfriend was much older and even more of a psycho. She came from a fucked up family, really sad stuff but she's doing alright these days.

I am one of my only friends of a similar age to not be in a long term relationship or to have been in a series of relationships by this point. For a while the cycle would be that I would fall for some arty free spirit type who usually just wanted a bit of fun and we would fool around for a while before they inevitably wouldn't reciprocate my desire for an actual romantic partnership. I'm bisexual, so I've experienced this with men, women and non-gender conforming folks. Everybody's the same. I can't do dating apps, the odds are just too rigged against you and swiping endlessly through the sea of grey anonymous cunts is akin to psychological torture. I actually went on my one and only tinder date last October after some very promising messages and despite briefly thinking she was the one because she had an Aphex Twin tattoo and us having loads in common, the spark just wasn't there. My best friend is engaged to his future husband after meeting him on tinder three years ago but they are very much the exception rather than the rule.

Social media makes the whole thing a thousand times fucking worse as well. I've been messaging a girl recently who I've known for years who I initially thought was perhaps into me due to some flirtatious messages and the fact that we've been doing a cute little exchange of books and trinkets and stuff in the post but I'm starting to think she just sees this as a fun time-wasting activity and I'm just projecting my own desires and feelings onto the situation. It's not healthy to stare at a little green dot next to somebody's name and wonder why they aren't talking to you.

I'm trying to learn to be happy by myself, those older and wiser than me usually say something like "just wait, they'll come along and you'll know when they do." It's hard though, it really is. There's a Jeffrey Lewis lyric in the song Life where he sings about how he hates to go months and months without kissing anyone. I feel ya, Jeff. I live with a couple which definitely intensifies the feelings of loneliness but also hearing their admittedly not very common but pretty savage arguments does make me feel strangely smug being by myself. Mostly though I just cry and wank. We all just want to hold or be held, it's the right and natural thing but it seems like a literal impossibility sometimes.

Am I normal? Can anyone relate? Am I fucking mental? Is it still possible to find love in a hopeless place as Rihanna once claimed to have done?

[bgmnts]

I will win this thread hands down, so will absent myself.

[Buelligan]

I think our culture, human culture, contributes hugely to some of the feelings you're expressing.  Right from infanthood, we're told stories of how, one day our soulmate occasional table will unexpectedly appear in our lives and we'll just know.  Everywhere you go, everything you listen to, people are going on and on and fucking on about their occasional table experiences.  It's never-ending, there's no need to elaborate or even exaggerate.  And, for some reason, because of this, many feel compelled to find a table, any table.  Snap it up before someone else does.  The pressure is enormous.  People get a table and thrust it under the eyes of others - look at my fucking table, can't you see how much happier I am, how much better I am, now I'm completed by the table!?1!!

But tables aren't just furniture.  They have their own dreams, they grow and change and leave, die or become crazy or always were.  It's not all beer and skittles living with a table, they can become too important.  They can ruin your home.  We should ask ourselves, how important are they really?  Sure, we can enjoy them if we want but we do not need them.  A life lived sans occasional table may even be better.  There, I've said it.

[bgmnts]

Yeah but you cant eat food off the floor can you?

[FredNurke]

Depends how long your neck is.

[Buelligan]

I eat food off a plate.  If I must have a table, I can go to a café or borrow one from a neighbour or make one from an old bit of wood that I have in the barn.

[Small Man Big Horse]

I can absolutely relate, by the time I was 39 I'd only been in a few short lived relationships (the longest being only 9 months, with the majority around the 3 month period) and most of them had ended in heartbreak, and were then followed by years of singledom, which caused me to be abjectly miserable / suicidal. Since then I've been lucky enough to have one five year relationship, and am in a new one now and am so much happier, a lot of people can function perfectly happily while being single, and I can for short periods, but I'm definitely happier when coupled up.

The only advice I can offer is to actively seek a relationship. I've heard people say "It'll happen when you least expect it / when you're not desperate" and I've only ever found that to be the case once, and with the other 45 years of my life it's been utter bullshit, to the extent I get quite angry with people when they say it. So even though dating sites can be a giant arse I really do recommend them, my advice would be to contact a lot of people in one go (in past experience if I sent 30 emails out I'd get 3 - 4 replies, and that would lead to maybe one or two dates), try not to get too involved in the messaging part of it, and meet up as soon as you can and go from there.

Also: Good luck. I truly know how painful the whole process can be, and really hope you find someone soon.

[bgmnts]

I eat food off a plate.  If I must have a table, I can go to a café or borrow one from a neighbour or make one from an old bit of wood that I have in the barn.

If we could make our own partners out of a bit of wood in the barn that'd be great.

[Buelligan]

Partner?  What do you need one of those for?

[bgmnts]

Someone to spend some time with innit.

[DoesNotFollow]

Yeah but you cant eat food off the floor can you?

Build yer own table?

[bgmnts]

Build yer own table?

Right but you'd still have a table, regardless of how you got one.

[Buelligan]

Someone to spend some time with innit.

This is Life, not jail, old bird.

[bgmnts]

This is Life, not jail, old bird.

Whats the difference ahhhh

[The Culture Bunker]

Am I normal? Can anyone relate? Am I fucking mental? Is it still possible to find love in a hopeless place as Rihanna once claimed to have done?

Well, I can't speak for "normal", but I was single everyday of my life till I was just a bit over 23, and even then my dating record till my late 30s varied from "ok at times, but never going to last" to "absolute disaster".

I suppose at the point when I met my other half, I was pretty much accepting that all that kind of thing wasn't for me, and not really that bothered by the prospect. I've lived alone most of my adult life and found it agreeable. Then, out of nowhere, I met someone intelligent, creative and beautiful who not only liked me, but somehow accepts all the fucked up things about me that drove anyone else I felt close to away. It also helps neither of us want kids, aren't social creatures and generally want a quiet life.

Point being, things can change pretty quickly at any point so that even a cynical, miserable shite like me can be happily surprised.

[Buelligan]

Congratulations on your rare and beautiful table, may it never get woodworm or those terrible stains left when you put down something hot and wet without thinking to use a coaster.

[GMTV]

CaB is the only life partner any of us want or need. No issues with that.

[Ray Travez]

I've heard people say "It'll happen when you least expect it / when you're not desperate" and [...] it's utter bullshit

It's bullshit alright- looking back, I was always desperate, and sometimes I'd end up in a relationship. Drink helps.

To add to what Buelligan said, we're conditioned in this society to believe that one person holds the key, one person will make you feel good, will hold you, will love you above all and at all times. No-one can carry that burden. I tend to think a different kind of society might be able to fulfil many of these nerds without the need for a love partner[nb] I am keeping this typo[/nb].

For a while I was going to this cuddle workshop. It was a nice way to get physical affection needs met without a partner. Tricky though. Easy to build up feelings for someone which aren't necessarily reciprocated.

[tao of wub]

Don't worry too much Spagetamine, you still have youth on your side, but if you really want to live life with a partner, then don't waste your time away.

How do you feel about yourself and life in general?  This could well be the most defining factor in your close relationships.

Other than if you are very physically attractive, in which case there will be somebody who wants to be with you, regardless of your personality, people will be attracted to you if they see potential for positivity in you I think.  Just being physically attacted to somebody is a shit basis for a relationship, it helps to get things started, but that is it.

Positivity and a lust for life is what gives people charisma.  Sometimes people will be attracted to somebody that they feel sorry for, that they believe that they can help, but this is not too healthy psychologically and it is less and less likely to happen as you get older and your potential to be changed for the better gets less and less.

As you have found out, initial attraction is about that elusive magic spark between partners and if you are not feeling like you have something good to give to the other person, then this is unlikely to happen.  If you are feeling full of joy, like you might on the first sunny day of spring and feel like talking with everybody and sharing that joy then you are more likely to make a positive connection with people.

Do you like just chatting to random people?  I don't mean in a pick up artist way, but just as something you enjoy?  You can't get together with anybody if you never meet and talk to anybody after all.  I used to love just chatting to random people, but as I have become older, I don't feel happy enough to want to do it much anymore.

The artsy free sprit types you are attracted to are attractive because they seem so free of the constraints of life, but as you have found they are usually wanting to stay unattached.  They are the proverbial ballon that can lift your spirits.

In the past I have formed relationships effortlessly and ended up in a near 2 decade relationship with a feisty and lovely woman.  BUT, the last 5 or six years saw my mental state crumble into sadness and anxiety to the point where I felt alone even when I was all tucked up in bed with my partner.

My life has been pretty empty for the past 2 years as I ended our relationship.  I would enjoy being able bask in the warm glow of feeling loved and loving somebody again.  There is something very good about doing something selfless for somebody you love. 

I absolutely know that this is not going to happen until I start to feel happy in my own life again though, instead of the oscillating stages of anger, grief and emptiness that I usually experience.

The thing is that perhaps I wouldn't care about that if I felt happier about my own position though.  It is a funny catch 22.

Like you, I can't stand the idea of online dating.  Hoping that eventually I will meet somebody and feel something great again.

If you do get into a long term relationship you will see the dynamics change.  It is easy to spend time together in the 'honeymoon' stage, but being together in the long term, you have to work to keep your love alive and keep reinventing your relationship.  If you don't grow together things WILL stagnate.

Keanu Reeves said, "The person who was holding me back from my happiness was me".  It sounds trite, but there is lots of truth in it.

Hope you find what you are looking for.

[Lisa Jesusandmarychain]

Isn't it going to be more difficult to find a stranger to fuck you in these Coviddy times?

[DoesNotFollow]

Right but you'd still have a table, regardless of how you got one.

True, personally I'm not anti-table though.

[Better Midlands]

Congratulations on your rare and beautiful table, may it never get woodworm or those terrible stains left when you put down something hot and wet without thinking to use a coaster.

The Culture Bunker Do you respect wood?

[Poirots BigGarlickyCorpse]

There's plenty of good advice in here already, but I'm going to add some anyhow:

Accept in your mind that it may never happen for you. I don't mean you should start thinking "oh I'm unlovable and will be Forever Alone". I mean accept that you can only control so much about whether you end up in a relationship, because there's another human being involved. All you can do is put yourself out there, which you're doing, so you're already ahead of the guys sitting at home on XBox all night. Make sure there are other things in your life and other people in your life, even if they're only acquaintances you see at your weekly class/exercise. Connect with your family, if you can stand them, and see them regularly. You'll feel less lonely and it means you won't fall into the trap of expecting a partner to be your sole source of companionship and affection. That pressure is too much, and it'll make you seem desperate.

Speaking of which - don't be desperate. Not just because it's a turn-off, but because abusive people can sense it a mile away. The last thing you need is to end up with someone who treats you like shit, but you stay anyway because you don't want to be alone. Alone is better than being abused.

You're very young. You don't realise it, but you are.  You have plenty of time. If the people you're meeting at the moment are also in their early twenties, then they probably aren't looking to settle down yet. You might have to wait a bit for that to happen. Keep getting out, keep being sociable. Make some more friends and have other humans in your life.

[The Culture Bunker]

The Culture Bunker Do you respect wood?

It's got its uses, which is more than can be said for me most of the time.

[Buelligan]

There's plenty of good advice in here already, but I'm going to add some anyhow:

Accept in your mind that it may never happen for you. I don't mean you should start thinking "oh I'm unlovable and will be Forever Alone". I mean accept that you can only control so much about whether you end up in a relationship, because there's another human being involved. All you can do is put yourself out there, which you're doing, so you're already ahead of the guys sitting at home on XBox all night. Make sure there are other things in your life and other people in your life, even if they're only acquaintances you see at your weekly class/exercise. Connect with your family, if you can stand them, and see them regularly. You'll feel less lonely and it means you won't fall into the trap of expecting a partner to be your sole source of companionship and affection. That pressure is too much, and it'll make you seem desperate.

Speaking of which - don't be desperate. Not just because it's a turn-off, but because abusive people can sense it a mile away. The last thing you need is to end up with someone who treats you like shit, but you stay anyway because you don't want to be alone. Alone is better than being abused.

You're very young. You don't realise it, but you are.  You have plenty of time. If the people you're meeting at the moment are also in their early twenties, then they probably aren't looking to settle down yet. You might have to wait a bit for that to happen. Keep getting out, keep being sociable. Make some more friends and have other humans in your life.

Or have less humans, ideally, no humans in your life and realise how extremely pleasant a thing that can be. 

I've had quite a few relationships, there were nice, extremely nice, bits, I won't lie.  But day to day?  Aye, there's the rub.

Being a contented, actively choosing, single is a beautiful thing.  You have times, some rare times, not often, someone dies, you see something terrible, it would be nice to have an emotional prop, someone to reassure you.  Sometimes it would be nice to have an extra pair of hands or another brain to resolve a problem.  If you don't, what're you going to do?  You're going to sort it out yourself and, every time you do, you get that much stronger, you become more yourself.  Not many partners can give you that.

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

am one of my only friends of a similar age to not be in a long term relationship or to have been in a series of relationships by this point.

It seems as though you aren't having as much trouble meeting people, just meeting people who want to have a longer term thing.

One of the major advantages of Internet dating, even though you hate the anonymous gray sludge and rejection is that when you do eventually go for a date you have a higher chance of that being with someone looking for a similar thing to you in the time to come.

I was also 24 before I had a relationship longer than a couple of months, but without anything so much as a peck on the cheek for a few years in a row. It felt like an extremely long time for anything, so I sympathise. Small Man Big Horse is right about the 'It will happen when you least expect it' adage being bollocks.

[spaghetamine]

How do you feel about yourself and life in general?  This could well be the most defining factor in your close relationships.

I'm a "creative type" whatever that means. Not working atm due to covids. I do a lot of music and art, I like festivals and camping and climbing trees and all that hippy shit. My zest for life is not what it could be but it's still there. I suffer on and off from depression but I'm feeling okay at the moment singledom aside.

Do you like just chatting to random people?  I don't mean in a pick up artist way, but just as something you enjoy?  You can't get together with anybody if you never meet and talk to anybody after all.  I used to love just chatting to random people, but as I have become older, I don't feel happy enough to want to do it much anymore.

I do enjoy chatting to all kinds of people. Obviously it's a bit harder these days but I've met some new people recently.

I appreciate your response by the way, and everybody else who's chimed in. Can't be arsed to reply individually to everyone but you're all ace.

[Pearly-Dewdrops Drops]

Loneliness and melancholy are the spice of life. It is an illusion of modernity (and consumer capitalism) that the goal of existence if to be "happy" all of the time. So I would say, first of all, to not try to flee from unpleasant emotions.

But my main piece of advice would be to avoid introducing a negative mindset into your idea of relationships/dating. If you start to obsess over it or to pity yourself or to adopt a negative view of "the game" of dating it can quickly spiral into a self-fulfilling prophecy that takes your further and further from where you want to be.

Nothing you've described is abnormal for your age, nor is your experience level at age 24 at all abnormal for someone who I'm inferring is more artistically minded (aka sensitive aka not a dumb clod). Yes, there are people who are continually in long-term relationships from the day they turn 16, and those people are generally conformist drones who will spend most of their lives in unsatisfying marriages without ever achieving true intimacy. Relationships at your age, or really all through your 20s, are a bit of joke anyway. That doesn't mean you have to become a hermit until you reach middle age, just that you shouldn't feel like you are missing some essential aspect of human existence by not having been in a long-term relationship in your early 20s.

[Bazooka]

Would you be opposed to an overseas bride?

[Jockice]

Anyone else want to tell my story? I'm in the middle of a Zoom meeting at the moment and I'm sure 99% of you have heard it before.