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Loneliness, dating and being happy by yourself

Started by spaghetamine, July 13, 2020, 03:09:39 PM

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Sin Agog

There's a genre of forum poster who'll post in an eerie husband-and-wife gestalt and write things like 'We really enjoy the oeuvres of Garry Marshall and Joe Don Baker' when they blatantly both don't. Personally I think you've dodged a bullet.

spaghetamine

Quote from: Jockice on July 13, 2020, 06:48:54 PM
Anyone else want to tell my story? I'm in the middle of a Zoom meeting at the moment and I'm sure 99% of you have heard it before.

Go ahead

Joe Oakes

Quote from: Jockice on July 13, 2020, 06:48:54 PM
Anyone else want to tell my story? I'm in the middle of a Zoom meeting at the moment and I'm sure 99% of you have heard it before.

Happy to help.

A happily-married young couple, David Jockice and Diana Jockice have started their respective careers, she as a real estate broker, he as an architect. She finds the perfect spot to build his dream house, and they get loans to finance it. When the recession hits, they stand to lose everything they own, so they go to Las Vegas to have one shot with their last five thousand dollars at winning the money they need. After losing at the tables, they are approached by a suave billionaire and high-stakes gambler, Rich Oldman, who offers them a million dollars for a night with Diana. Indignant but already seduced, Diana and David reluctantly agree. They say money can't buy love. Though the couple agrees that this is a way out of their financial dilemma, it threatens to destroy their relationship. Can the husband and wife survive Rich's ultimate test? Can't remember, but you get the gist.

flotemysost

Quote from: spaghetamine on July 13, 2020, 03:09:39 PM
Am I normal? Can anyone relate? Am I fucking mental? Is it still possible to find love in a hopeless place as Rihanna once claimed to have done?

There's been a number of threads like this in my (admittedly limited) time on here - in fact one of them, about three years ago, was what prompted me to break my CaB silence and make my first post - but in short, I think a LOT of people can relate. Not just in this place, but everywhere. It's way more common than you might think.

I've spent the majority of my teenage and adult life (turned 31 this year, fwiw I'm a straight cis woman) lugging around a desperate sadness about never having had a serious/long term relationship, and obsessively panicking about what people might think of me for it, to the point where it's even affected friendships and work relationships - as in, I assume that if people get close to me and find out I've never had a serious boyfriend, they'll assume I must be a complete fucking weirdo.

Or I worry that I can't ever be a truly good friend, because I can't give advice about relationship stuff. At times it's even extended to despairing that I'll never be able to properly enjoy song lyrics and films in the way people who've experienced romantic love do. Ridiculous, I know.

Without parroting the wisdom already imparted in this thread, I will say this...

1. If you have friendships and connections with others (which you do, going by your post) then that's proof you're capable of forming and sustaining a meaningful relationship with another person. This is what one of my closest friends (who I feel comfortable confiding my stupid worries in) always says to me. Any idiot can get a partner/spouse. Raoul Moat had a girlfriend, ffs.

2. As others have said, and I know it's annoying to hear, but you ARE young. When I was 24 I would look at my mates who were happily partnered up with someone they met in their teens/at uni, and feel like the biggest most unlovable failure on Earth. Many of those relationships are now over, but of those that aren't, I genuinely don't envy those people any more. I've had true independence and freedom throughout my twenties and that's something that they can't get back (not suggesting they were in controlling relationships or anything, but for all their adult life they've done stuff as a 'we').

3. Dating can be a lot of fun, but it can also be fucking hard and dispiriting. And as a single person you're supposed to be this carefree fun-loving free wheeler, always having a great time and never complaining , but it can be exhausting and depressing too. With the obvious caveat that in the current situation, dating is clearly a bit different at the moment - I would say, take care of yourself, and give yourself a break when you need it. There's no rush - other single people aren't going anywhere. Ever. And (obviously, again, COVID allowing) in theory it's possible to have sexual connections without having to go out with that person, if that's what you want. Our society can be really squeamish about the idea of sex outside of a committed relationship and I think that can breed a really unhealthy and damaging attitude.

I mentioned it in another thread recently (I don't work for the publisher or anything, honestly) but I would really recommend the book The Unexpected Joy of Being Single to anyone experiencing these feelings of misery and otherness. I read it earlier this year and it genuinely helped soothe my sadness, and calmly clarified just how stupid the valorisation of the state of 'being in a couple' is, based on nothing at all really (some crusty old patriarchal values, pretty much). It's not at all about knocking being in a couple, or saying everyone should be single - just affirming that being single is just as valid, and absolutely no reason to feel inferior.

bgmnts

QuoteAny idiot can get a spouse/girlfriend.

I can't :(.

Am I extra idiot?

Jockice

Quote from: Joe Oakes on July 13, 2020, 07:05:43 PM
Happy to help.

A happily-married young couple, David Jockice and Diana Jockice have started their respective careers, she as a real estate broker, he as an architect. She finds the perfect spot to build his dream house, and they get loans to finance it. When the recession hits, they stand to lose everything they own, so they go to Las Vegas to have one shot with their last five thousand dollars at winning the money they need. After losing at the tables, they are approached by a suave billionaire and high-stakes gambler, Rich Oldman, who offers them a million dollars for a night with Diana. Indignant but already seduced, Diana and David reluctantly agree. They say money can't buy love. Though the couple agrees that this is a way out of their financial dilemma, it threatens to destroy their relationship. Can the husband and wife survive Rich's ultimate test? Can't remember, but you get the gist.

That's actually not far from the truth. The truth being a relative concept of course.

peanutbutter

I've not had anything I think really counts as more than a couple of months. Had a fucking mess of an on-off-mostly-off thing from about 20-23 that I think filtered out a lot of the bullshit about relationships I'd been trained to believe. There's generally way too much shit going on in my own head to seriously engage with anyone, and when I do the timing is usually off for one or both of us (which I do wonder is part of why I was even willing to get involved ).
I'm pretty okay though, my concern at this stage is that I'm too comfortable being alone and when I run out of friends and stuff I'll just be lonely as fuck with no options. If I had a larger pool of friends I reckon I wouldn't give a shite.

Have a couple of friends who are obviously super keen to find someone to the point where I can see it absolutely ruining their lives by getting involved with some mess of a person just to get over their loneliness. It's not like being married to someone you hate is gonna resolve that hollow feeling much, like.

flotemysost

#37
Quote from: bgmnts on July 13, 2020, 07:18:15 PM
I can't :(.

Am I extra idiot?

'Course not. There's a bit in that book I keep harping on about where the author muses on how weird it is that we congratulate and buy cards and gifts for couples when they 'achieve' things like moving into a new home (for example), but when a single person does the same thing (potentially meaning they've had to work twice as hard and rely on their own smarts) there's generally far less fanfare, as it's not seen as this monumental thing, even though realistically it may be a bigger achievement.

Shoulders?-Stomach!

QuoteRaoul Moat had a girlfriend, ffs.

Big gym bod, bants, guy had it all and threw it away

Marner and Me

Get on fabswingers and send cock shots to everyone in a 100 mile radius.

Pijlstaart

Father is making the most of his misbegotten little pecker before impotence takes him, a carousel of ill-fated elder women hobble themselves upon his foul diminuendo. Guardian columnists have presented a misleadingly rosy view of late-life dating, but it is no such thing, at the banks of an unfordable river lost souls will meet the boatman Charon, played by Father, and pay him his sordid toll to ferry them to the world of the dead. It is a sombre affair, and what they may have sought upon this journey, they surely did not find.

I don't want that fate for you, I will do all I can to keep him at bay.

tao of wub

#41
Quote from: flotemysost on July 13, 2020, 07:35:25 PM
how weird it is that we congratulate and buy cards and gifts for couples when they 'achieve' things like moving into a new home

Society is funny about these things.  During my long relationship, we never got any special recognition from anybody because we weren't married, not that it particulary bothered me though.  I had friends who would get angry about not getting their various wedding aniversary gifts from everybody.  Gifts from society for conforming to social norms.

QuoteHave a couple of friends who are obviously super keen to find someone to the point where I can see it absolutely ruining their lives

This has got to be a terrible strategy.  You surely can't make it work with any old rando.  You have to be as intrigued by them as you hope they are in you.

From what you say Spaghetamine, it sounds like you have plenty going for you in your life. 

There is little so attractive as a genuine smile I believe, so if you can find things in your life that make you smile, you are on your way to finding somebody.  And along the way you will be smiling anyway.

tao of wub

Quote from: Pijlstaart on July 13, 2020, 08:52:27 PM
at the banks of an unfordable river lost souls will meet the boatman... and pay him his sordid toll...


All that pole work is keeping him in great shape though

Jockice

Quote from: spaghetamine on July 13, 2020, 06:53:48 PM
Go ahead

I've actually got a busy evening tonight but I've got a few minutes spare so I'll give you a truncated version.

Teens: First snog and first girlfriends aged 17, both of whom dumped me after a couple of weeks. I really liked the first girl I snogged with but was too scared to ask her out and one of my best mates (who only knew her through me) saw his chance and asked her out. Didn't hold it against him (he saw his chance and took it. Fair play to him) but they ended up going out with each other for three years. Most of my mates had (what seemed to be) serious relationships during their teens. I hadn't. Did have a couple of chances to have a shag, which I chickened out of. I wanted my first time to be special. But more importantly I thought they might laugh at my nob.

Twenties: Lost my virginity aged 20. A one-night stand. It was a strange situation where it was easier to sleep with her than not to. It actually went quite well. I was amazed. Then another just after my 22nd birthday with an older woman (30!) that I still count as one of the greatest nights of my life. Practically every one-nighter I've had since then has been crap though. Didn't have what I'd describe as a proper girlfriend till I was your age. But it was complicated and I got dumped after seven months. It hurt. I met someone else a few months later but she lived in a different city and we weren't really that much into each other. So that ended. Then almost straight after that I met someone else who I really liked. But let's just say it wasn't the best point in her life. She dumped me after seven months too (exactly seven months to the day). That hurt too.   And onto my:

Thirties. Met someone (a friend's workmate) when I was 31. Thought she was the one. But got dumped before I'd even reached 32.  I said to her near the start of the relationship, please don't dump me after seven months. She dumped me after seven months. I was absolutely heartbroken. She turned put to be a real nasty piece of work. In fact I'm now friends again with the three from my 20s (I got in touch with one, one got in touch with me and I bumped into the other at a mutual friend's funeral) but I really hope to never see this one again in my life. So I gave up on women. Almost. In my mid-30s I had a very embarrassing attempt at a one-night stand after a party and a brief fling with a woman from the next street to me. But she was very...er...eccentric and my mojo wasn't operational. So this time I did totally give up.

Forties: Nothing at all  Until I was 48 when a chain of circumstances led to me meeting my first teenage crush who I'd been too shy to speak to at school (I'm strangely proud of the fact we were in the same class for four years but I never said a single word to her) and we clicked, ending 17 years of singledom and 13 without even a snog.

Fifties:  In a month's time we'll have been going out with each other for six years. It's not all been easy. She lives over an hour's drive away for a start and has teenage kids which mean we can't spend as much time together as I'd like - and I started writing this post hours ago before she phoned me up with a lengthy update on her latest family traumas - but you know, it's good. I even tell people I have a girlfriend sometimes.

Not totally sure what I'm trying to tell you here actually, except that I've spent large parts of my life feeling like you (although it has to be said, I'd much prefer to be on my own than in a shit relationship) and being the gooseberry when most of my friends were coupled up. Just...good luck in finding someone if that's what you want. If it can happen to me then I'm sure it can happen to you. Fingers crossed.


Buelligan

Quote from: Pijlstaart on July 13, 2020, 08:52:27 PM
Father is making the most of his misbegotten little pecker before impotence takes him, a carousel of ill-fated elder women hobble themselves upon his foul diminuendo. Guardian columnists have presented a misleadingly rosy view of late-life dating, but it is no such thing, at the banks of an unfordable river lost souls will meet the boatman Charon, played by Father, and pay him his sordid toll to ferry them to the world of the dead. It is a sombre affair, and what they may have sought upon this journey, they surely did not find.

I don't want that fate for you, I will do all I can to keep him at bay.

Thank you for making me think about your father's erect penis.

I had an odd idea that it might work backwards, the more wrinkly a man becomes in later years and inflate his whole body.  Not awfully attractive, if I'm honest.

shagatha crustie

Quote from: spaghetamine on July 13, 2020, 03:09:39 PM
Social media makes the whole thing a thousand times fucking worse as well. I've been messaging a girl recently who I've known for years who I initially thought was perhaps into me due to some flirtatious messages and the fact that we've been doing a cute little exchange of books and trinkets and stuff in the post but I'm starting to think she just sees this as a fun time-wasting activity and I'm just projecting my own desires and feelings onto the situation. It's not healthy to stare at a little green dot next to somebody's name and wonder why they aren't talking to you.

This sounds promising, are you sure she's not keen? Why don't you ask if she wants to meet up? You really have nothing to lose, she clearly likes you enough to be taking the effort to post stuff to you. Maybe you just missed the boat on the initial message when the time was right.

(Really sympathise with your situation btw, I've been single since 2014 - I've dated since but nothing ever seems to go anywhere.)

Jockice

#47
Quote from: Small Man Big Horse on July 13, 2020, 03:42:15 PM
The only advice I can offer is to actively seek a relationship. I've heard people say "It'll happen when you least expect it / when you're not desperate" and I've only ever found that to be the case once, and with the other 45 years of my life it's been utter bullshit, to the extent I get quite angry with people when they say it. So even though dating sites can be a giant arse I really do recommend them, my advice would be to contact a lot of people in one go (in past experience if I sent 30 emails out I'd get 3 - 4 replies, and that would lead to maybe one or two dates), try not to get too involved in the messaging part of it, and meet up as soon as you can and go from there.

I've never really done that (which may account for why up until my late 40s I'd spent less than two and a half years of my life in relationships). Everyone I went out with was through meeting in a not looking for a relationship context.

One of my mates* had his heart broken when he was at university (probably why he's the only person I've ever met who only got a 'pass' for his degree) and seemed quite okay with being single until he got to 30 then basically something went in his head. It got to the point where I felt uncomfortable going to the pub with him as he'd latch onto any female who gave him the time of day and try and chat them up. He wasn't crude or anything, but honestly, he might as well have had the word 'desperate' tattooed on his forehead. As a woman I knew once said to me in a nightclub: "He's a nice guy and all that, but please just get him away from me.''

He joined two 'good cause' groups, would ask a woman out from one of them and either get rejected straight away or dumped after a few weeks. Then he'd ask a woman out from the other group. This went on for years. We were totally at odds. I couldn't understand his 'I want a girlfriend. It doesn't really matter who it is as long as it's a girlfriend,' attitude and he couldn't understand my 'if it happens it happens' view.

Still, he did meet someone for keeps in his late 30s and they still seem to be happily married. Good luck to him. But different strokes for different folks etc. If the OP thinks internet dating will work he should try it but just try not to come across as desperate. I did put my name and some words on a site early this century just to see what happened Nothing did. Nobody responded. But there are many more options now. I also sent off for an information pack about this lot but never followed up on it https://www.outsiders.org.uk/outsidersclub/, so it's not as if I was totally impervious to wanting someone to go out with.

(*Not to be confused with the bloke - a friend of a friend. I'd hesitate to call him a mate. I've never liked him much - who used to basically harass women to have sex with him and then when he did succeed saw it as proof that he was popular with women and boasted about it. They allegedly ALWAYS phoned him up afterwards and begged to see him again for two hours. Having seen him in action - and one women actually running away when he went to fetch his jacket - I knew it was at least 90% bullshit. I haven't met him for years thankfully. He was a creep.)

Ornlu

Chubby 28-y/o bloke here, spent most of the last 12-13 years in relationships. (Tbf, this is mostly because it's the only way someone like me can experience sex, which I'm a huge fan of.) I've only ever had sex with seven people, while all my friends have got numbers of at least ~20, which makes me want to die every day. (But that's just how I feel, you understand.)

Was (justifiably) broken up with six months ago and it's been complete agony since. I'm on every single dating app, and every week brings a fresh wave of ghosting and rejection. Other posters have it right, though - you just have to keep trying again and again, and pray that you can feel something for the narrowed-down subsection of people that are willing to give you a chance.

Nothing of substance to add really, sorry pal. Just nice to vent.

Jockice

Quote from: Ornlu on July 14, 2020, 03:18:36 PM
All my friends have got numbers of at least ~20, which makes me want to die every day. (But that's just how I feel, you understand.)

You know something,  I bet they haven't. People lie about sex and relationships. Even I've done it. In my late teens I told my best mate (who had a steady girlfriend at the time) that I'd lost my virginity round the back of a party I went to while visiting family in Scotland. It never happened. Well the going to a party while visiting family in Scotland bit was true but none of the rest. It couldn't really be checked and I didn't want to feel left out as everyone else was apparently getting their end away. *

Also, while visiting family in Scotland a few years later I made what must have been a blatantly false phone call to a girl I was actually going out with at the time (the one from another city that ended out of mutual disinterest), pretending that she wasn't in and I left a message with her mum. I can't even explain that one, except that I wanted to prove that she really existed but didn't actually want to speak to her.

And finally, not long after I'd been dumped in my early 30s I had to go to a family funeral in Scotland. I ended up sitting in the front of the taxi and got into conversation with the driver who it turned out had recently split-up with his live-in lover and had moved out. I said I was in the same situation myself but she'd been the one who'd moved out after living together for about a year. Then I heard a noise from the back and realised that my dad and cousin had heard every word. It wasn't a 100% fabrication as I had given her a set of keys to my flat (which anyone who knows me would realise was a very big deal) but we never actually lived together and the whole thing lasted the obligatory seven months anyway. And while my mum and sister knew how heartbroken I was, I don't think I'd even ever mentioned her to my dad. He'd met her a couple of times but unless my mum had told him, he'd have been totally unaware of what had happened.

*Conversely, when I did have my first shag I didn't tell anyone apart from one jokily-delivered line to a friend I'd seen earlier that evening and which I knew he wouldn't take seriously. As far as he knew I'd caught my bus home after the pub just as he had. Little did he know that night's adventures had only just started for me.

tao of wub

Quote from: Ornlu on July 14, 2020, 03:18:36 PM
I've only ever had sex with seven people

Its not a fucking competition! 

Imagine if you were a whoremonger like, say, a certain president, or a serial philanderer, like a certain prime minister?  You'd probably have had sex with more people than you can even remember, (with forgotten kids to match), but the emotional shared experience would likely be a big ol zero.  Empty, boring emotionless sex.  Dogs probably get more joy from humping a pillow.

Shoulders?-Stomach!

Aye rather have made a lasting meaningful connection with one person ever than done a come up 100.

But then I would say that

Cloud

Getting on for 40.  It's probably because I'm a cunt, but can confirm the thing about your soulmate "just appearing" is a load of bollocks.

Not looking though, haven't looked for a good few years - relationships take effort, and unfortunately, I'm lazy and like a lot of "me time".

Small Man Big Horse

When I mention to friends that I've had sex with 14 people they seem to think I'm an AIDS filled slut and are not so quietly appalled (bar the friends who have had sex with loads more people than that, at least).


tao of wub

Quote from: Small Man Big Horse on July 14, 2020, 05:59:04 PM
When I mention to friends that I've had sex with 14 people they seem to think I'm an AIDS filled slut

Well it is quite a lot if it was all at the same time!

Some maths fiend has adapted the 'Optimal Stopping Problem' to try and help optimise his chances of finding love

https://www.omnicalculator.com/other/dating-theory#what-is-the-optimal-stopping-problem

As Buelligan and others have noted, though not in so many words, relationships are all about making and accepting compromise.  Everybody has a different level of what they can accept.

JaDanketies

#56
Up until the my late 20s I wasn't very good at the whole dating thing. In fact it was Tinder that really made me realise that I actually had sexual market value.

I can briefly espouse my story and what I learned below:

So when I was young and beautiful, I was scruffy. Long hair, unkempt beard. To be honest, there were girls who were interested in me between the ages of 15 and 19, but I'm not quite sure I was ready to meet them half way. Worst of all, I didn't pursue some because my friends at the time insulted their looks.

I snagged a woman when I was 19 and lost my virginity. I was with her for about three or four months. That relationship had a time limit on it because she was in her last year of uni and I was not, and she lived on the other side of the country.

Then, all the way through university, I was definitely interested in another relationship, but I could never get anywhere. I think that being a scruffy-looking fellow, making my interests publicly-known and therefore dissuading people who were not my Number One from showing an interest in me, and just not really being the best JaDanketies I could be, were all aspects of this. After all this 'rejection', I started to think that I was ugly and unattractive. Again, there were a few people who later told me that they once fancied me, but always at the last possible moment.

21, I got a haircut and started a job and then a woman showed interest in me. She was bad news and if I truly appreciated that I had options, I would never have even countenanced going out with her. As it was, I was in a relationship marred by (her) violence, jealousy, possessiveness et cetera for five and a half wasted years. It was only when I accepted that I would be happier to be single forever than to be with her any longer that I finally dumped her. The shitty anecdotes I've got out of that relationship are endless.

Then I didn't really pursue anything for over a year. Eventually I got on Tinder, and initially it was very frustrating. A couple of hints:


  • Don't like literally everyone, this pushes you to the bottom of the algorithm
  • Try and be funny and interesting, then if the conversation goes well, try and set a time and place to meet them.
  • Lots of people on Tinder are not interested in meeting up with you; you want to filter these out. The aim of the game is to get to go on a date with someone, not to have a long conversation with them.
  • Profile picture should have a cute animal, bio should be a flippant joke that makes it seem like you don't take it seriously.

After getting a few dates, and then having sex with someone else, it was kinda like the floodgates opened, and I realised that I actually did have sexual market value. Then, a few more right-swipes later, and now I've got a son.

Easy to say, but be confident, don't get frustrated, don't lose hope, and take care of yourself.

I've had sex with seven people too, which is the average, so it's cool. There was kinda a part of me that wanted to hit the magic 7 so that I knew I was at least averagely attractive. The ones who I didn't have a long-term relationship with were utterly meaningless in retrospect. From the ages of 19 until when I dumped the abusive woman, my total figure was 2. Five notches added from Tinder, one of whom I was in a casual relationship with for just under a year, and one of whom is my baby momma and the love of my life who I will one day marry. Three entirely forgettable flings.

checkoutgirl

Quote from: JaDanketies on July 14, 2020, 06:11:06 PM
now I've got a son.

So there is a downside to relationships. Procreation and family.

Buelligan

Quote from: checkoutgirl on July 14, 2020, 06:07:19 PM
For the 67th time.

Because it's a thread on this subject. You could try accepting that, amongst all the replies telling people to go on dating apps or try to meet more people or wait, you have plenny of time, there'll be at least one person who doesn't think it's the end of the fucking universe to enjoy not having a dull shiftless cunt hovering over them and asking when tea is and hogging the duvet 24/7.

If that's a problem for you, I suggest you refrain from reading threads of this type.  Or you could join a dating shit hole and find someone, anyone, to fill the time you'd otherwise spend reading shit you know you'll hate, just so you can complain.  Again.

bgmnts

Quote from: Buelligan on July 14, 2020, 06:29:03 PM
Because it's a thread on this subject. You could try accepting that, amongst all the replies telling people to go on dating apps or try to meet more people or wait, you have plenny of time, there'll be at least one person who doesn't think it's the end of the fucking universe to enjoy not having a dull shiftless cunt hovering over them and asking when tea is and hogging the duvet 24/7.

If that's a problem for you, I suggest you refrain from reading threads of this type.  Or you could join a dating shit hole and find someone, anyone, to fill the time you'd otherwise spend reading shit you know you'll hate, just so you can complain.  Again.

Why would they be a "dull shiftless cunt"?

What if you are a dull, shiftless cunt? Being on your own won't help.